NX250 Vs Crf250L

Evenin folks, just a silly question that's been bugging me since I bought my crf. My brother has a NX250 (88?) that I have ridden quite a few miles on. Now, I haven't had a chance as yet, to ride them back to back. But I'm convinced that the old NX would walk all over a crfl in stock form. And I'm not certain that it wouldn't out perform my crf even with the ejk and filter mods. For those unfamiliar, the nx is a water cooled, carbed, 6 speed street/dirt bike from back in the late 80's early 90's. So my question is, if Honda had a design and tooling for a bulletproof (brother has 30,000+ miles) water cooled 250 motor already developed, that performs as well or better that our crf's, why start from "scratch"? Honda is well known for leaving well enough alone, sometimes for decades at a time. So unless the old design was just fantastically expensive to build, I just can't figure out why.  :confused:

They didn't really start from scratch. They used the motor from the cbr250r which has been out for quite a while, and the bike is manufactured in Thailand so you can be sure the bike is cheap to make.

The reason why honda have been so successful is because the bike is a new design, if they had of stuck with an old model, people would have overlooked it and purchased a drz400.

I've had a Drz. And I darn sure didn't buy my crf because it was a "new" design. We have a 1981 xl80 in the shed that shares 90% of it's parts with my boys 02 xr80.... Honda is successful because they design things so well that they stand the test of time. Hence my question. They had a water cooled 250 motor, that could have been in the cbr250 just as well.

I've had a Drz. And I darn sure didn't buy my crf because it was a "new" design. We have a 1981 xl80 in the shed that shares 90% of it's parts with my boys 02 xr80.... Honda is successful because they design things so well that they stand the test of time. Hence my question. They had a water cooled 250 motor, that could have been in the cbr250 just as well.

Maybe you didn't, but I did and I guarantee most other people bought it cause it was a new fuel injected designed bike.

In my opinion the DRZ400E is a far better bike than the crf250l. The only reason I didn't buy it was cause of the close ratio 5 speed gear box and it was still running a carburettor, but the suspension is far superior, it puts out 40hp and weighs less than the 250l.

Everyones needs are different.

If you want more hp you could always put a big bore kit in it or swap the engine at the wreckers for a cbr300r motor

This isn't a debate on what is a better bike. It's me wondering out loud why Honda designed and built an entirely new (from outward appearances) water cooled 250cc motor, when they already had one, and at least once, had the tooling to build it. Fuel injection could have been added to the nx motor that was already "on the shelf". 

I worked on a manufacturing line for 20 years, and the answer to your question can be soooo many things. Automobile makers use the same sub structure on a variety of cars for decades, and just change the outer skin to make a new model, or update an older model, etc. In other words, your idea is sound, they could of easily made the CBR250R and eventually the 250L from that existing motor, but they didn't. They had a reason for a new design. Maybe it was heavy, or maybe quite frankly they don't have the equipment to build it anymore. This engine was designed for a sportbike, so maybe the old NC couldn't be made to rev to the sky. Maybe they did have what was needed to still making it, but moving it all to Thailand was too expensive. Maybe starting from scratch in Thailand was cheaper. It was most likely a cost factor. When the plant I worked at closed its doors, we threw away hundreds of left over brand new engines because it was the cheapest way to get rid of them.

Thanks. I'm aware that it's complicated, and we'll never really know. Just thought there might be some fun in speculating. I was just shocked that riding a similar bike from the same manufacturer but 25 years newer, the performance is marginally better, at the most. And just for the record, the reason I bought the crf instead of another drz. I have asked every Honda dealer I have ever spoken too why the only offerings were the 650, and the anemic little 230, not a hot 250. All of them responded that while lots of folks talked about buying one, dual sports just don't sell that well. So when they came out with something close to what I was after, I bought it just to encourage them to build something different and better. Because if no one bought this one, I might be old and grey before they try that market again. I couldn't care much less what motor was in it, or how the fuel is delivered. The fuel injection is fantastic, but far from a deal breaker.

Maybe you didn't, but I did and I guarantee most other people bought it cause it was a new fuel injected designed bike.

In my opinion the DRZ400E is a far better bike than the crf250l. The only reason I didn't buy it was cause of the close ratio 5 speed gear box and it was still running a carburettor, but the suspension is far superior, it puts out 40hp and weighs less than the 250l.

Everyones needs are different.

If you want more hp you could always put a big bore kit in it or swap the engine at the wreckers for a cbr300r motor

 

exactly.

 

those are the 2 main things i need/wanted and they are must in this day and age.

 

-6speed

-fuel injected.

 

the DRZ-400 / KLX250s are by far better dual sports but the DRZ has 5speed and a carb, and the kawai has a carb.....in 2015.......what ....the...fu$#@!@%@#$@

 

 

the moment suzuki gives the DRZ a fuel injector id buy it the moment it comes out.

Edited by michael.kozera

This isn't a debate on what is a better bike. It's me wondering out loud why Honda designed and built an entirely new (from outward appearances) water cooled 250cc motor, when they already had one, and at least once, had the tooling to build it. Fuel injection could have been added to the nx motor that was already "on the shelf". 

 

because the new CBR/crf250 engine was deigned for economy. the valve check intervals are 25,000km ffs! and the oil change is every 13,000km!!!  an average fuel economy of 3L/100km (80mpg), good luck getting even close to that with a crab.

 

 

the new cbr/crf 250cc was designed to be efficient, low maintenance, low cost, and versatile, check, check, check, and CHECK. honda made a brilliant engine IMO.

Edited by michael.kozera

 

the DRZ-400 / KLX250s are by far better dual sports but the DRZ has 5speed and a carb, and the kawai has a carb.....in 2015.......what ....the...fu$#@!@%@#$@

 

EFI in the rest of the world...only USA & Canada (and I think I read Oz someplace) have carb'd version apparently???

 

http://www.thumpertalk.com/topic/1033763-klx-250s-fuel-injenction/

Evenin folks, just a silly question that's been bugging me since I bought my crf. My brother has a NX250 (88?) that I have ridden quite a few miles on. Now, I haven't had a chance as yet, to ride them back to back. But I'm convinced that the old NX would walk all over a crfl in stock form. And I'm not certain that it wouldn't out perform my crf even with the ejk and filter mods. For those unfamiliar, the nx is a water cooled, carbed, 6 speed street/dirt bike from back in the late 80's early 90's. So my question is, if Honda had a design and tooling for a bulletproof (brother has 30,000+ miles) water cooled 250 motor already developed, that performs as well or better that our crf's, why start from "scratch"? Honda is well known for leaving well enough alone, sometimes for decades at a time. So unless the old design was just fantastically expensive to build, I just can't figure out why.  :confused:

 

they didn't have the tooling or designs any more?

 

it couldn't be made to meet emission standards?

 

they like designing new engines?

 

the NX250 makes 26hp

the 1992 GB250 clubman makes 30hp

there have been a assortment of 250 singles made by Honda over the last 30 years, some for only a couple years.

Honda could easily turn the crf250l motor into a 35hp motor if they wanted but obviously that wasn't their design objective.

I think the object of the exercise was more a commuter bike than an actual 'Dual Purpose' machine in the CRF250L. I bought it for the novelty and what could be done with it. If I wanted a true dual purpose machine I would of taken a 250X put a splash gear in it for oil distribution and a light kit. I have modded my 250L motor into a respectable motor, and have ploughed the local MX track with the 250L, put the mirrors back on it and puttered home, to me it is a 1970's XR250, not quite a good road bike, and not quite a good dirt bike, but it does what I need it to do.

I think the object of the exercise was more a commuter bike than an actual 'Dual Purpose' machine in the CRF250L. I bought it for the novelty and what could be done with it. If I wanted a true dual purpose machine I would of taken a 250X put a splash gear in it for oil distribution and a light kit. I have modded my 250L motor into a respectable motor, and have ploughed the local MX track with the 250L, put the mirrors back on it and puttered home, to me it is a 1970's XR250, not quite a good road bike, and not quite a good dirt bike, but it does what I need it to do.

 

splash gear? its a Honda not a briggs and Stratton! :goofy:

All my Honda mechanic buddies state the X will not circulate oil enough on road, will overheat and possibly seize. Needs to be bumped around some to get oil where it needs to be. One also told me to put a splash gear in and you are good. Now where to get this splash gear, that is the unknown.

I think it may be it doesn't hold enough oil or would need a cooler, they are selling a street legal version in the UK for 2015 but it has a disclaimer stating extended highway running voids the warranty.

back when Honda came out with the FT500 ascott they used the XL500 engine but they put a more tame cam in and a larger oil sum to increase capacity and cooling surface.

That's the rumor we heard as well that the X models and oil issues is reason no street legal version. That CRF450L rumor was funny though. And who would buy a bike for road that states extended road use negates warranty?

That's the rumor we heard as well that the X models and oil issues is reason no street legal version. That CRF450L rumor was funny though. And who would buy a bike for road that states extended road use negates warranty?

In Australia the crf250x is street legal. I think the issue with the crf250x is valve adjustment, and if you ride it on the highway for extended periods you are at grearer risk of putting a valve through a piston.

Having said that, I've ridden a crf250x on the highway plenty of times. No problem.

I have an nx 250 and a klx new

Difference is environmental regulations.

Nx is 26 hp but does not fulfill euro 3 exhaust requirements.

Nx is great,I have 3 bikes and is my beloved (gas gas pam 250,honda vtr 250 and nx 250)

I sold klx because in spite of superior bike ,power was 21hp vs 26 of nx

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