15 YZ450F vs 12 CRF450R - which to buy?

Suspension doesn't count because every bike will need the suspension adjusted to the rider and secondly reliability is the same if you don't treat the bike like shit and take care of it. And it's on the rider not the bike. If Honda was so shitty, why do they have more podium finishes in supercross? Because of the riders. Bike didn't a damn thing for them so your theory about the power being everything is a load of crap. And yeah I agree with you about it not mattering anyways... Especially since he's not a pro that's gonna even tap the full potential of either bikes.

How old are you? Just asking because your answers imply someone either very young or very immature. You are defending Hondas as if your life or reputation depends on it. If you are not aware that Yamahas have a reputation for being more reliable and durable than all the other bikes, and their suspension far better straight out of the gate ( that means when you buy it, not when the gate drops) then you dont know much about bikes. Folloe that ip with a really ridiculous comment about supercross success being relevant to to the bike you are riding. The 09-12 Hondas were inferior compared to the 14-15 YZ, no question about it unless you just need to say different because you own a Honda. If you cant tell the difference yourself then either you dont want to acknowledge it or your just not good enough to feel it. I don't think it's latter, because even as a slow vet novice I can feel it.

Just my personal opinion, I borrowed a 13 Honda 450 and wasn't as impressed as I wanted to be. The 13 is supposed to be an improvement over the 12 Honda, so I would bet that of I didn't like the 13, I wouldn't like a 12. I have a new Yamaha now and everytime I ride it I'm more and more impressed. All that being said, I recently took a spin on a 15 KTM 450. Short of the atrocious suspension the motor, handling and even the feel all felt very very similar to my YZ450F.

The 13 was definitely a step back for Honda. The 12 is a great bike with only one real problem, the clutch.

The 13 was definitely a step back for Honda. The 12 is a great bike with only one real problem, the clutch.

curious about the clutch thing... What's bad about it? I'm probably going to agree that it's bad Cuz I've never stalled a bike more than my 12 crf450

curious about the clutch thing... What's bad about it? I'm probably going to agree that it's bad Cuz I've never stalled a bike more than my 12 crf450

Just a bad design but it can be fixed. There are a few companies that make a 6 spring conversion kit.

Just a bad design but it can be fixed. There are a few companies that make a 6 spring conversion kit.

is that what gives it such a weird feel?

is that what gives it such a weird feel?

Yep

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