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Rusty99

Overheating 2012 WR450, need help

66 posts in this topic

Hey Guys,

 

I'm fairly new to dirt bikes and since owning my 2012 WR 450 I've had overheating issues. Coolant boiling over and steam/fluid pouring out the discharge tubes.

 

I removed the pea shooter, changed rad fluid to Coolanl. This didn't help at all. 90% of my riding is slow technical mountain trails in the Alberta Rockies.

 

1. I have a GYTR Competion ECU on order, will changing the mapping help it run cooler?

 

2. Is putting a FMF Q4 muffler going to help run cooler?

 

3. Adding fans is becoming a pain in my butt: Would appreciate some pics & details on someone whose done fan setup.

 

4. What is the best and most economical temperature sensor or computer a guy can install?

 

I need the biggest bang for my buck cooling upgrade, hopefully it also fairly simple for a newbie to do.

 

Thanks in advance.

Cheers

Russ

Edited by Rusty99

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The company ecu will make a huge difference. I don't know if the fan is needed but you might consider header wrap.

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Before you spend a bunch of money wait until you get the comp ECU installed and go for a good ride. My 2012 is bone stock except all the uncorking and I've never had it over heat. I race the Alberta cross country series on it and its had some rough rides but never even steamed. Maybe your running your clutch a little to hard, that will cause some serious heat.

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Yeah definitely wait til you get the comp ECU and remap it, makes a big difference. I ride woods and tight PNW single track, and only had one incident where I've boiled mine, and that was super tight/technical very slow going, clutch slipping and never getting up to any kind of speed to cool it off type of thing.

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ECU, FMF muffler, FMF or MX map and you will not have any more overheating problems.  If you want to go a step further, get the Yamaha FI diagnostic tool and change the CO Level.  Do a search on this forum for "diagnostic".

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My 2012 WR450F frequently overheated last summer, in similar conditions to what you describe.  Tight, sloppy, technical single track. 

 

I'm running the comp ECU with an FMF exhaust system.  I'm running the stock map and I haven't changed the idle mixture (yet).  I have removed the boil over 

 

I installed a 30 PSI (2.1 bar) rad cap over winter.  On the weekend I went on a very slow, muddy ride.  It was about 75F in the bush.  We also got lost and spent over an hour at a virtual crawl, up and down hills, through swampy sections, etc.  Result: no boil over.   My bike would make gurgling noises when I shut it off, but it didn't lose coolant and mostly ran like a champ.

 

If I encounter much more of this sort of riding, I will install a cooling fan, but for now it looks like my overheating problem is solved.

 

One more thing: If you are consistently riding slow, ie in 1st gear, I recommend gearing your bike down.  These bikes run hot at idle and slipping the clutch adds heat to the engine.   If you gear it down, you get less of both.  

 

FWIW, I run 12:51 right now.  I'm probably going to go 12:54 just to try it out.   The terrain we ride is so technical that I'm hardly ever in 3rd gear.  And even when we are on a road, my bike is faster than all the motocross geared bikes.   Plus lower gearing brings the gears closer together and makes 2nd more usable.

Edited by MidlifeCrisisGuy
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MidlifeCrisisGuy

I totally agree that the the tight, technical & sloppy conditions is exactly the type of trails I've been riding and thus I end up overheating.

 

Question 1: What map does the Competition ECU come set to?

 

Question 2: Doesn't the bike still get ridiculously hot even with the 30PSI rad cap, but just not boil over? I'm really hoping to cool the bike down.

 

Hopefully changing the mapping will help out to begin with.

 

Cheers

Russ

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Before you spend a bunch of money wait until you get the comp ECU installed and go for a good ride. My 2012 is bone stock except all the uncorking and I've never had it over heat. I race the Alberta cross country series on it and its had some rough rides but never even steamed. Maybe your running your clutch a little to hard, that will cause some serious heat.

I agree that I am probably running the clutch a little too hard, being a newer rider I'm finding I can't get the bike to go slow enough in technical terrain in 1st gear. I've definitely got to improve my clutch skills

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MidlifeCrisisGuy

I totally agree that the the tight, technical & sloppy conditions is exactly the type of trails I've been riding and thus I end up overheating.

 

Question 1: What map does the Competition ECU come set to?

 

Question 2: Doesn't the bike still get ridiculously hot even with the 30PSI rad cap, but just not boil over? I'm really hoping to cool the bike down.

 

Hopefully changing the mapping will help out to begin with.

 

Cheers

Russ

 

1) It comes set to all zeros across the board, for fuel and timing.

 

2) a) See this: http://www.heat-transfer-fluid.com/pdf/techpapers/pressure-boiling-point.pdf

 

B) I'm running about a 50/50 mixture.   It boils at about 265 with a 15 pound cap AT SEA LEVEL.  Each PSI adds about 3F so (30 - 15) *3 + 265 = 310F. AT SEA LEVEL.  However, were I ride we start at about 5,000 feet and climb from there.  So the boiling temp is probably 270-280F or so, which is hot, but livable.

 

c) One of the alternatives that "everyone" seems to use is special coolants aka "Engine Ice", etc.  These coolants allow similar temperatures without boiling over.   A high pressure rad cap isn't allowing any higher temps than what using those coolants does.   HOWEVER, water is a better heat conductor than any of the special coolants so I figure my bike will suffer the least when I'm using water/coolant mix and a high pressure cap rather than using a special coolant.

 

d) It is far more important to keep the coolant liquid around the cylinder than having it boil out.  I've boiled mine a couple times, its not good.  Having the catch bottle is of little value and actually makes matters worse because none of the coolant goes back into the system until the bike cools down.   You can ride for a long time with very little coolant in the engine and not realize it.  The catch bottle doesn't increase the boiling point or cooling capacity in any way.  In fact, it masks the problem.

 

e) I'm told that a lot of stock bikes (Kawasawki and KTM) come from the factory with 1.7 bar caps.  If they are OK to use at sea level then I am OK using a 2.1 bar cap at elevation.

 

I'll probably put a fan on my bike one day.  For now I'm happy that it isn't boiling over anymore.

 

This is an interesting article too.

http://www.tuneruniversity.com/blog/2011/06/beating-the-heat-advantage-of-a-high-pressure-radiator-cap/

Edited by MidlifeCrisisGuy
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Before you spend a bunch of money wait until you get the comp ECU installed and go for a good ride. My 2012 is bone stock except all the uncorking and I've never had it over heat. I race the Alberta cross country series on it and its had some rough rides but never even steamed. Maybe your running your clutch a little to hard, that will cause some serious heat.

 

I don't have any issue with over heating at race speeds.   Its the tight, technical 1st gear, slog through the mud stuff that heats my bike.  And constant hill climbing with zero speed between the climbs, ie sidehills and switchbacks.  This is where a fan would help dramatically.

 

I agree that a higher pressure cap isn't addressing the root of the problem, ie lack of air flow through the rads.  But it is mitigating the effect, ie loss of coolant on a ride.  Only two things increase the air flow through the rads.  Riding faster and an electric fan.   FWIW, KTM factory race bikes are equipped with electric fans.

Edited by MidlifeCrisisGuy

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So besides what's been listed so far.. how about big radiators? They are so fricken cheap compared to just a couple years ago.. and a coolant overflow reservoir..is there already one on the bike? ..if it's boiling..take a break and let the fluid go back in the bike.. I like it all..higher pres. cap, radiators, fan, overflow tank..2twocool additive..whatever you feel like.. maybe royal purple water wetter..I'm not thinking that the new silicone hose is a big deal but it's a little bit of bling and might improve the coolant flow.. small improvement if any but stronger hose. 

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/new-40mm-aluminum-alloy-radiator-Yamaha-YZ450F-YZ-F-450-2010-2013-2011-2012-2013-/120761086273?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item1c1debf141&vxp=mtr

 

Things to think about maybe later..if you want..

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Boyesen-Supercooler-Kit-Black-Fits-Yamaha-YZ450F-2010-2012-/310988453042?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item48685b34b2&vxp=mtr

 

I collected a playlist of videos for boiling bikes ..you can get more ideas here too.

 

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLZUD9Qo1RWjm82dPL7giemYy570h46Ghx

 

Good luck!! 

Edited by hawaiidirtrider

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Hey guys, I have been snooping around this forum gaining valuable knowledge but never really contributed so I should do my part. I run my 98 wr400 with this product call Evans powersports. Event when my radiators are covered in mud it doesn't boil over! Basically the Evans guys took the water component out of the antifreeze thus eliminating boiling. As we all know water boils at 100degrees thus when there is no water the boiling temp become 180degrees. This coolant will continue to do its job when water turns into vapor. I have been using it and will not use anything else. Do a search online I am sure they sell online.

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But aren't you just running your bike hot, without the boiling over? Just because the coolant is not boiling does not mean that you are running proper temperature.

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Hey guys, I have been snooping around this forum gaining valuable knowledge but never really contributed so I should do my part. I run my 98 wr400 with this product call Evans powersports. Event when my radiators are covered in mud it doesn't boil over! Basically the Evans guys took the water component out of the antifreeze thus eliminating boiling. As we all know water boils at 100degrees thus when there is no water the boiling temp become 180degrees. This coolant will continue to do its job when water turns into vapor. I have been using it and will not use anything else. Do a search online I am sure they sell online.

You know I bought some. Thought about it and didn't use it. I just use straight anti freeze not sure if Evans works any better.

In regards to it running too hot, well I've done nasty one mile per hour stuff to the largest horsepower sucking hills for years and years and years.

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Doesn't Boyessen (the reed guys) make an over-size impeller & housing that will pump more water?

 

If Rusty99 lived in Arizona and was into riding on hot days, I'd say maybe....this seems odd.

 

I've driven my carbed 2006 on single track on a 90 deg day with no problems

 

If he has FI, I'd venture a guess he is running lean (assuming no cooling issues)

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But aren't you just running your bike hot, without the boiling over? Just because the coolant is not boiling does not mean that you are running proper temperature.

This is very true. If your boiling over your to hot already. Now when you boil over it can create vapor pockets (hot spots). Evans coolant can prevent this. The bad news is you'll never know your bike is running this hot with the Evans. With my bike tuned right I never boil over (riding in 98-100 degree temps). I just switch over from Yamacool to Engine ice. After a vinegar and distilled water flush. Followed by a distilled water flush. Engine Ice is pre-mixed with de-ionized water. 

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Yes, it is about damage control. When you boil over you loose coolant. You let it cool and start riding again with less coolant inside this time less tolerant to another boil over with the cooling system half empty. I would rather not loose any coolant and still have some form of a medium carrying away the heat from the hot spots. Besides, the low pressure from not boiling is also a safety measure. Now I wouldn't run my bikes on any other coolant.

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On a WR you boil over into a catch bottle. As it cools it sucks the coolant back in. So you don't lose much at all. Evans does not boil over but it also does not transfer the heat as well. So you run hotter and never know it.

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