Race Tech Gold Valves?

That would be a different subject, and still one of controversy.

I think the issue of bottoming and inconsistencies in stroke performance are the fault and failures of the mid-valve and cylinder valve. Both of which you modified during the course of installing the Gold Valves.

You essentially changed three factors so be careful which one you draw your conclusion to.

In my little world, the integrity associated with the design of the KYB mid-valve warrants it's removal. And the very same applies to the cylinder valve. When one of the other fails, the fork collapses.

Both can be modified, but I was never able to find a modification that could withstand continual abuse, (trail and woods riders need not worry). So out they went.

And...here we go again.

DaveJ

Well John I guess i'm gonna have to use my secret weapon......."never attempt to teach a pig to sing, it wastes your time and annoys the pig".

But I guess you'll be firing it back.... aarrrg ya got me.

John you assume that KYB engineers understand riding. Or that they even do ride. Generic one size fits all suspension will never come close to what you and I or mx tuner can make it do for specific applications.

I have a couple of good stories relating to your KYB engineer "assumption" that I think you might even belive. But I type so slow I fear that new technology will replace all of this before I complete the message.

Paul

I just wanted you to elaborate on 2 items;

1. Explain how you arrived at the conclusion that the stock KYB piston is causing a hydraulic situation.

(I have a feeling there is a weekend seminar in the answer, at the tune of 5 bills!!)

2.Explain how you figured the stock KYB and RT piston "push" on the face shim at the same distance from center.

"Come on cowboy, I SAID DANCE!!".....(As he shoots at his feet!!)

( I am trying to remember what movie I seen that in)

Take Care, John

The closer you get to the center of the shim, the harder it is to bend.

If the valve holes are closer to the center of the stack, the shim will be harder to deflect.

However, if the valve holes are closer to the center, but the holes are made bigger, one design change would cancel out the other, but only in regards to flow rate.

A smaller diameter valve with larger holes would produce a softer ride than a larger diameter valve with smaller holes. Why? Because shims are progressive with their resistance. The more they bend, the more they push back.

This is perhaps why I like the feel of the KYB valve over the Race-tech unit, because it allows greater movement into the stack. Meaning, what I do to the stack with the KYB valve has a greater effect than a stack change to the Race-Tech valve.

This is also why the Race-Tech valve would inherently be softer since it's not going into the second stage (high compression) stack as much as the KYB would.

(I had to say something).

DaveJ

I would NOT recommend Delta Valves at any price. They just ain't worth the headaches. Don't waste your time or money trying to make them work.

PaulP, you're exactly right. There is more than one way to get quality suspension. A concept some have a hard time with. The more control I have over the task at hand, the happier I am.

PaulP

Didnt mean to mislead you on the RT delta stuff. I just figured 35.00 was about 100.00 less than the gold valves.

I might buy them just to tear them apart to see whats up.

What is the deal with them anyways Tuner? Bad design? I never worked with them.

Tuner, As always your replys are always very interesting and worth the wait.

Now Start Dancing Cowboy!!!....

(just the thought of somebody shooting at someones feet to make him dance cracks me up...!)I think its time to crack a window and let some of these solvent fumes out!! :)

Take Care, John :D

[ December 12, 2001: Message edited by: John Curea ]

I tried a couple sets when they first came out. One problem is inconsistency from one side to the other. They use a wound spring, similar to a small clutch spring, to help control some of the orifice resistance. The spring length is critical to the amount of resistance (obviously) and is not identical from one spring to the other. In fact, major differences. And I *could* get tehm adjusted similarly but only by disassembling them and counting the turns. Once installed, you wouldn't be able to go from a fully seated position from both sides and get the same damping. Plus, it acted like a huge change in low speed shim stacks. You'd get the bike to work well, adjust it and it would develop a BAD push in corners. I did play with them spoke with RT on numerous occasions, got revised springs and other parts and still had a heck of a time getting it to work. And then I'd adjust them and have to start all over. If I had anything but exceptional luck from the Gold Valves, I could see trying to put up with the Delta Valves. But they weren't even in the same ball park. I can do one valve stack that will work better in the woods and on the track that work better than Delta Valves adjusted from one end to the other.

John, I would truly like to ride a bike you set up sometime.

Tuner

I had a chance to talk with Jeremy Wilkey inbetween posts and his take on them is the same as yours, thumbs down.

He actually described them as a emulator type of valve that replaces the base valve.

I seen on your bio that you live in Ga, I will be down that way in march. I have been working with Jeff Russell, and I will be attending all of the GNCCs starting in Florida. I will do what I can to bring a set of suspension for a YZ for you to try on your bike.

I have some sight seeing to do in Savanah, the last time I was there, some pretty motivated Black Hat Army Seargent was yelling at me to jump from a perfectly good airplane....

Now you wanna talk about adrenaline overload, YEEEHAW!!! :)

Take Care, John

Not to get anyone off on another topic, but what about Ultra Adjusters? They seem to be the same type of setup as the Delta Valves you guys haven't had much luck with. I know at least one person on here is running them and likes the way they work. It just seems that if the Delta Valve is not worth messing with ...is the Ultra Valve?

PaulP

I've never dealt with Ultra Adjusters. I have no experience with them.

John, will you be around during a weekend? Can you bring a set up for a 426? Maybe I can talk GA426Owner into letting us use him and his bike for a guinea pig. You can ride my set up and we'll switch and we can ride yours. Plenty of tracks around here, and down around Macon where the GNCC will be.

Tuner

Sounds good, the second round is March 9th and 10th in Ga. I will be busy during the weekend, but I am sure we can arrange a time during the week or figure out a plan for the weekend.

Take Care, John

So with all the talk is race tech the best suspension or should I go with enzo

Hey H bomb,

I wouldnt ask that question around here LOL...because you are going to get 5 million different answers and opinions! Some "techies" swear by Race Tech and others swear by Enzo/MX Tech/Factory Connection etc! To remove the midvalve or not to remove the midvalve? That is the question John Curea, MX Tuner, DaveJ and others will be debating forever (or at least until we all are riding around in Jetson mobiles LOL!) Who is right? They both are...suspension is like jetting it is a user preference and there is no "magic setting"...but I think DaveJ is in fork Nirvana if I am not mistaken, right (hehe)?

The main reason I did the Race Tech route was beginner friendliness, I wanted to learn how to do suspension myself, since I plan on riding MX until the nursing home has to take me to the races :) I am glad I did the mods myself because I learned a heck of a lot in the process, and I know my knowledge/experience will help others later down the road! Good Luck on your decision,

Garrett

Thanks for your advice,Garrett :)

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