XR650R Carb on a XR650L

I'm a new XRL owner, just bought a 2000 model. Awesome bike! Thanks to all on this forum for posting about their XRL's. Extremely valuable info:thumbsup:

After reading this thread and Kenzo's detailed transplant info, I decided to do the mod. Got a carb off or Ebay and did a trial install today. I'm in the Monterey, CA area, so very close to sea level and followed Kenzo's final jetting and needle settings (65p/160m, needle #5, and 2 turns out). I'm running stock header with FMF Q slip-on, with airbox mod.

A few observations with my switch.

- oh yea, its a tight fit alright! Definately have to have some patience when putting the carb back in place. The intake side is a few MM larger than stock and thus does not seat in all the way. Same for the airbox side, just a bit larger. Also, the XRR carb is longer from intake to airbox bell mouths. (sorry, forgot to record measurements)

- fuel line routing is not a problem. Just be careful and think about the routing.

- As I see in Kenzo's photo's, you have to flip the intake boot clamp/screw to the 12 o'clock position because in the stock position the srew hits the idle cable bracket. Not a big deal but worth mentioning.

- Cables. Unfortunately the PO, removed the cable mounting bracket from the carb I bought, so I was not able to modify the cables to fit. I am getting the bracket and will get cables made to fit from Motion Pro. I have friend who works in R&D there and they will probably make a PN for the cables for the XRR/XRL conversion. I will post up after done.

- I did manage to rig the pull cable so I could run the bike. It did not want to start with any amount of choke? Once it did fire up, it was obvious the bike had much more throttle response and sounded way "meaner". I adjusted the idle and it purred like a kitten.

After the holidays I'll have more time to dial in and will post results. Thanks Kenzo:thumbsup:

Lee

Ok, holidays are over. I had Motion Pro make an XR650L cable with 1" extra length (inner wire, not casing) and it works perfect. Has enough slack so adjusters on both ends can take it up if needed. I routed the cable the same way as the stock (between head and right fork tube) but crossed it under the frame (under tank) so it can mount up to the now left side carb bracket mount. With this cross over, it took up a bit of cable, so I figure if your running bar risers then you'd want a longer casing also. (Note: I am running my throttle housing so the cables are on top...due to hand guards not allowing throttle to be in the lower postion as stock.) I also removed the "B" push cable since this carb has a pretty strong return spring.

Took it out for a street ride test today. Wow ! It really pulls hard in all gears and will lift the front w/o clutch in 2nd gear. I can feel no flat spots or other glitches and I haven't even played with fuel screw. It will still cough/die if you try to whack it open at a slow speed, but a slight roll on and then open it, and the bike really pulls hard. I also noticed the bike was not as loud and had a deeper sound and not a "raspy" coming out of the pipe.

I have not taken the backfire plate off the choke plate and might not since I don't want to mess with taking carb off. Any thoughts of the probability of the plate breaking as on the XRR?

Lastly, I realized the pilot I used was not the "S" type with the smaller holes. Does anyone have knowledge of the difference between the two type Pilot jets?

Overall the was an inexpensive mod and feel the bike picked up ~3hp and gained much needed throttle response. Hopefully I'll get it off road this weekend to see what its like on trails.

This thread should be a sticky as it was very helpful (Kenzo:thumbsup: ) and seems to be a simple and proven mod for the XRL.

Lee

Leeb17,

I'm kind of anxious to hear about your off road test.

I predict a good amount of wheelspin coming your way.

HBLARRY

Leeb17, glad u like it :thinking:

the "s" style pilot is wut ur suppose to use on the R...i haven't tried the non-s style..

...once u get use to controling ur right hand the off idle bogg will be minimized...i'm still considering trying a 68s pilot and the HRC needle but nothing with the current operation compels me to make it a prioity even though a richer pilot may help the off idle bogg when u wack it too fast...also there's the option of disabling the ACV.

the R carb choke plate doesn't really break like sum of the older cast version on the XR600 but there is a potential for it to fall off or the spring to break free...SWAG is the potential for a problem is very low.

the stock R cables and throttle assembly r just long enough using the R routing w/ my ProTaper SE CR High Bends and a 1 1/2" bar riser.

:smirk:

Ken, re the "S" pilot. I'll have to do some research to find out what if any the difference is between the two. Not sure what a smaller or larger holes do if it all get metered by the jet size opening anyway?

I'll let you do the next test on the needle and 68:smirk: You're right, it seems pretty darn good as is. ACV, I'm going to read up on that also. Thks for reminding me.

Noted about the choke plate. When I have nothing else to do I'll go back in and take it off.

The guy I bought the carb sent me the R cables and only 1/2 the housing so I stuck with my stock unit. All good.

Lee

Leeb17,

I'm kind of anxious to hear about your off road test.

I predict a good amount of wheelspin coming your way.

HBLARRY

Wheelspin. I'll have to restrain myself. Might take it Hollister Hills tomorrow to check out.

Ken, re the "S" pilot. I'll have to do some research to find out what if any the difference is between the two. Not sure what a smaller or larger holes do if it all get metered by the jet size opening anyway?

I'll let you do the next test on the needle and 68:smirk: You're right, it seems pretty darn good as is. ACV, I'm going to read up on that also. Thks for reminding me.

Noted about the choke plate. When I have nothing else to do I'll go back in and take it off.

The guy I bought the carb sent me the R cables and only 1/2 the housing so I stuck with my stock unit. All good.

Lee

BWB's site http://borynack.com/XR650R/xr650r_caruretor.htm :thinking:

Ken, re the "S" pilot. I'll have to do some research to find out what if any the difference is between the two. Not sure what a smaller or larger holes do if it all get metered by the jet size opening anyway?

The holes in the end of the pilot jet are emulsion holes. Larger holes allow more air to get mixed with the fuel. Smaller holes allow less air and cause the same size jet orifice to act slightly richer.

EDIT: I think what I just said is in that link Kenzo posted above.

Thanks Ken, that's where I first learned of the difference.

Headtrauma. I looked at the link to BWB site and could not find where he explained the difference...only the pic showing the difference. Thanks for the explanation though.

Lee

As a follow up to this thread... The pig fly's! This carb swap is well worth it. Much more throttle response and power than you'll ever get by doing the Dave's mods on the stock XRL carb. Nothing against the Dave's mods as they work great for the stock carb.

I've ridden the bike on tight single track, dirt roads, street and it modulates well and I cannot detect any flaws, other than you can't just whack it open.

Do yourself a favor, buy one off of Ebay, jet it as per Kenzo's recommendations, get a 1'' longer pull cable and your in business.

Leeb17,

Good to hear it performed well off road.

Too bad I haven't got that far yet.

We installed some Renthal fat bars and Acerbis brush guards

yesterday and the stock cables are kind of short just for that

modification with the stock carburetor.

So..........if the stock cable casings were lengthened another 1"

and the cables themselves are lengthened 2" this would work fairly

well with the XR650R Kehin carburetor and also give a little more

slack for taller bars and brush guards. Correct ??

Might be a good time to do a plug reading and a fuel mileage check.

HBLARRY

if u use the stock R throttle cables u have to use the stock R cable routing... once u get the assembly mounted to the bars...the cables is routed on the riders side of the bars, the riders side of the steering stem and then down the riders left side of the backbone to the carb...

u can check the R Honda Service Manual in the FAQ Sticky for a drawing/diagram :p

stock R cables/throttle assembly worked for me with ProTaper CR High Bends plus 1 1/2" bar risers :thumbsup:

:moon:

Seems like the amount of force on the slide spring, you really don't need the return cable and could easily get away with using only a single cable. That would make replacement a little easier, just finding a different cable to use.:thumbsup:

Leeb17,

Good to hear it performed well off road.

Too bad I haven't got that far yet.

We installed some Renthal fat bars and Acerbis brush guards

yesterday and the stock cables are kind of short just for that

modification with the stock carburetor.

So..........if the stock cable casings were lengthened another 1"

and the cables themselves are lengthened 2" this would work fairly

well with the XR650R Kehin carburetor and also give a little more

slack for taller bars and brush guards. Correct ??

Might be a good time to do a plug reading and a fuel mileage check.

HBLARRY

HBLARRY, The stock case length was fine for me (CR bend) but had the inner wire lengthend 1" . So yes, seems 1" added case length would equal 2" inner length added.

Kawidad is right, there is enough spring tension for return w/o "B" cable. That also makes routing easier with guards and running stock routing.

Could also go with the Kenzo setup.

Lee

Hi Jacking, SORRY.

Just got the XRR carb mounted. 70s/175 jets. Needle has the clip in 2nd groove. At 19F degrees, and the following mods:

I never ride when it is this cold. again, impulse control issues.

Vented side panel, Uni

Hotcam 1

Ported

XRO header (two thumbs up, BTW)

WBE2

Header and muffler pipe wrapped from the junction to the muffler can.- This typically asks for one jet size up.

Mix screw out 2.25 turns (because of the cold 19F?)

It idles, comes off- idle OK. Starts OK. Needed 1/2 choke a couple times.

As I rode, my face got number than my skull. My hands ached, and the bike was acting like it was out of gas for a moment when you tried to go from 1/3 to 1/2 or to wide open. It even stalled when coasting and using engine braking a couple times with the throttle at 1/2 or so. and the decelleration pop was rather disconcerting as well.

I suspect that either I should move the needle to the 4th position from the top for it being that cold, or put a 180 in and use the third position in all but HOT weather?

I did not enjoy moving the clip position the first time. But I do like that changing the main on the bike is easier than the CV.

Seems like the amount of force on the slide spring, you really don't need the return cable and could easily get away with using only a single cable. That would make replacement a little easier, just finding a different cable to use.:thumbsup:

shudn't be a problem...until the slide hangs up or a stick or branch gets caught in the linkage or the cable frays and hangs up :moon:

obviously i prefer the stock push-pull setup :p

:lol:

Hi Jacking, SORRY.

Just got the XRR carb mounted. 70s/175 jets. Needle has the clip in 2nd groove. At 19F degrees, and the following mods:

I never ride when it is this cold. again, impulse control issues.

Vented side panel, Uni

Hotcam 1

Ported

XRO header (two thumbs up, BTW)

WBE2

Header and muffler pipe wrapped from the junction to the muffler can.- This typically asks for one jet size up.

Mix screw out 2.25 turns (because of the cold 19F?)

It idles, comes off- idle OK. Starts OK. Needed 1/2 choke a couple times.

As I rode, my face got number than my skull. My hands ached, and the bike was acting like it was out of gas for a moment when you tried to go from 1/3 to 1/2 or to wide open. It even stalled when coasting and using engine braking a couple times with the throttle at 1/2 or so. and the decelleration pop was rather disconcerting as well.

I suspect that either I should move the needle to the 4th position from the top for it being that cold, or put a 180 in and use the third position in all but HOT weather?

I did not enjoy moving the clip position the first time. But I do like that changing the main on the bike is easier than the CV.

i'm not sure why urs wud need such a richer jetting over mine but mine may not be perfect...

...so ur ACV has been deactivated?

...ur also using the HRC needle?

...how much venting have u done to the side panel?

...did u remove the carb, slide, pivot & spring when working on the needle (easiest) or fiddle the the screws with the slide in place(PITA)?

i wud test the pilot per the Jetting Board Sticky.

i wud then remove the airbox cover to see how that effects the bike.

since mine runs pretty darn gud w/ 65s & 160 jetting and stock needle on lowest clip position(raised/richest) my SWAG is ur very rich :p

i had a simular problem(stumble) at WOT until i opened up the airbox more :thumbsup:

:moon:

Good advice Kenzo,

I was going to suggest that jlutty650l consider your

jetting first and just richen up the main to 165 or

maybe 168. He's got a lot of flow going on there with those

modifications.

Thanks for the advice on the cables and the routing also.

I was tracing back and I don't really see any photos of the

XR 650R throttle assembly and cables installed. Might be a good

idea to post some before and after shots since a number of

people might want to do this swap. It's nice to see it visually.

HBLARRY

Good advice Kenzo,

I was going to suggest that jlutty650l consider your

jetting first and just richen up the main to 165 or

maybe 168. He's got a lot of flow going on there with those

modifications. HBLARRY

he's already at 175 on his main jet...just because he has the restrictions removed, upgraded the cam and has sum porting the bike STILL needs the proper A/F ratio :banana:

Thanks for the advice on the cables and the routing also.

I was tracing back and I don't really see any photos of the

XR 650R throttle assembly and cables installed. Might be a good

idea to post some before and after shots since a number of

people might want to do this swap. It's nice to see it visually.

HBLARRY

the garage is a bit of a mess(as always :lol: ) but here's the stock R throttle assembly routing...it's worked well for several months with no temp, binding(lock to lock) or related issues :lol:

DSC01690.jpg

DSC01691.jpg

:lol:

AJCV killed.

B53E needle in 3rd position

70s, 180 jets as of today.

Mix screw out 1.75 turns and idle set and good starting w/out choke when I left.

As the oil temp went from 100 to 185, the air temp dropped from 51 to 40.

The bike started doing a subtle "I want more fuel" skip when I wound it harder the colder the air got.

according to this:(from www.xr650r.us/jetting/)

***Clip position counted down from top of needle***

TEMPERATURE IN DEGREES °F

ALTITUDE 20 30 40 50 60 70 80 90 100

0 4 4 4 3 3 3 3 3 2

1000 4 4 4 3 3 3 3 2 2

2000 4 4 3 3 3 3 2 2 2

and this:

TEMPERATURE IN DEGREES °F

ALTITUDE 20 30 40 50 60 70 80 90 100

0 182 180 178 175 175 172 170 168 168

1000 180 180 175 175 172 170 168 168 165

2000 178 178 175 172 170 168 168 165 162

and this:

*** XR650R Uncorked /stock header with HRC tip / B53E Comp Needle***

Use a main jet one size smaller when using a drilled stock tip instead of the HRC tip

Use a main jet one to two sizes larger when your side panel is cutout If the stock needle is used, then ad +1 to the clip position listed below

Use a main jet one size larger with a high flow aftermarket exhaust canister

Use a main jet two sizes larger when using a larger diameter aftermarket header & exhaust canister

NOTE: When Gary mentions "Go one size larger", remember that Keihin jets run in sizes of 0, 2, 5, and 8. (170, 172, 175, 178, 180, etc.) A 170 + 2 main jet sizes should equal a 175 if that makes any sense.

When using the formulas above and more than one matches your bike, the increases and decreases in jet size are cumulitive.

Examples:

(XR650R uncorked) + (stage 1 cam) + (drilled out stock tip) = no main jet changes The cam increases the main jet size by 1, but the drilled stock tip subtracts 1 so they cancel each other out.

(XR650R uncorked) + (stage 1 cam) + (side panel cut out) + (HRC tip) = 2 main jet sizes larger

(XR650R uncorked) + (stage 2 cam) + (side panel cutout) + (full exhaust header & canister) = +5 main jet sizes larger

And the wrap on the header all the way back to the muffler can makes it run leaner, too. It creates more of a scavenging effect and draws better flow through the motor in general.

So that's how I justify a 180. I think the fourth postion is where it should be at 40. All I can do is wait for 60 tomorrow and try again. If it's too rich, it'll get worse. If it's almost on, it will run good. I am tempted to drill the 180 out to a 185 spec for the cold.

I swapped the jet with the carb in place and changed the clip position with the carb loose from its boots, but still in the bike frame.

I LOVE THIS CARB. I like the way the choke works, the cables routed easily. Mine already had the choke plate removed. I noticed before it got dark and cold tonight, and got finicky, this bike is strong.

I totally support this mod and thank Kenzo again for the quick input and nice photos on the routing.:banana: I already had my tank on, so no pix from me yet. I have some general pix on the way when my website is updated this week.

if u use the stock R throttle cables u have to use the stock R cable routing... once u get the assembly mounted to the bars...the cables is routed on the riders side of the bars, the riders side of the steering stem and then down the riders left side of the backbone to the carb...

u can check the R Honda Service Manual in the FAQ Sticky for a drawing/diagram :lol:

stock R cables/throttle assembly worked for me with ProTaper CR High Bends plus 1 1/2" bar risers :banana:

:lol:

Good info - thanks :lol:

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