Rekluse Help

[YZPaGuy]

Okay this is an add on to Stoie's post about the Rekluse. I have a question or two......

Basically I was going orange this year but my wife wasn't happy with her bike and my son needs an 85 because he is growing fast so the 08 YZ450 is going to have to stay my main race bike for at least the better half of the upcoming race season, so I am going to do a bunch more work to it and that includes a Rekluse but I'm a little confused

1) Did they do away with one of the clutches they used to offer?

From stoie's post....Rekluse EXP 2.0.......Rekluse CoreEXP.........Rekluse vStart Pro.........Rekluse CoreEXP 2.0........but I can only find three on the Rekluse website.......Core EXP just got better – Now with EXP 2.0 Technology.............Rekluse z-Start Pro...........New for 2011 with EXP 2.0 Technology

Am I missing something here?

Anyway, I race Hare Scrambles on the East Coast. Very tight stuff in allot of cases but there are also "open" races. Never higher then 3rd gear with the 450, mostly 2nd gear racing. I pointed out of C this year and I am racing in B Vet this year. I am not a fast guy but I should finish mid pack B. A couple of buddies say Z Start but I am thinking the Core EXP 2.0. Basically what I want is the bike to start in gear off the line and for it not to stall in the tight stuff. I don't stall allot now, maybe once or twice a race but that once or twice costs me positions. My biggest problem is my hand and arm start hurting half way through the race from clutching so much. If I could get rid of that it would help me out ALLOT!

Let me know your suggestions and why. I want to order one in the next week or so but I want to make the right choice. Thanks for the help guys!

[FinchFan194]

I have a z-start pro. Keep your pilot jet stock(don't up the size to stop popping on decel) and KEEP your idle at or around stock. If you raise your idle to in theory reduce stalling you will override your pilot jet and the bike will actually stall more with a fast idle. Now this is only with a Rekluse. That and I have the stiff spring in and removed 3 ball bearings. I have fought my 08 for a year to get it setup and now with these setting it is PERFECT. I also race Hare Scrambles and I only stall if I get fatigued and give her too much throttle over a square edge. However if I am good and strong the whole race I have no issues.

Hope this helps!

[grayracer513]

Rekluse has the same 3 clutches they've had for some time now (actually 4 if you count their fully manual, standard type Core (NOT the Core EXP) clutch.)

To summarize:

• The EXP 2.0 is an improvement/replacement for the EXP. It amounts to an auto clutch conversion kit for your stock clutch, and requires you to remove one each of the steel and friction plates from your existing stack in order to use it. It retains the original lever feel as the stock clutch above idle, and can be adjusted so as to be able to bump start the bike if need be. I don't care for these on the basis that it makes the clutch pack that much weaker by removing the two plates, and the '07+ clutch is already reduced by one pair from earlier models. People do use them for racing and get away with it, though, and they do seem to work well.
  

• The Z-Start Pro is an upgrade redesign of the original Z-start that was discontinued probably 5 years ago or more. (there was never a "v-start") This is a complete clutch kit (using your original basket and friction plates) and replaces the pressure plate and boss with a totally different design that utilizes steel balls in the pressure plate assembly to engage the clutch. It can be overridden with the lever at any speed, but has a very light lever feel above idle. Some people love that, some don't care for it. Works for me. At idle, or with the engine off, the clutch feels "disconnected". The clutch CANNOT be made to bump start the bike regardless of what you do, though. The clutch action is exceptionally smooth and predictable when set up right, and many still consider it the best option of the three for off-road use in technical sections.
  

• The Core EXP is a 100% complete premium racing clutch that uses the same EXP expanding ring technology as the EXP 2.0. It avoids the use of a shorter than normal clutch pack by the fact that the basket is extended to hold the EXP ring and a full set of plates. This does require the use of an aftermarket clutch cover that provides 1/8" more clearance, but the kit comes with one. It again retains "normal" lever feel above idle, and can be adjusted for an emergency bump start as needed. It's a purpose built racing clutch, and can take anything the OEM clutch can handle, maybe more.
  

[cereal killer]

I'd steer clear of the exp 2.0 (i.e. the expanding disk that uses stock components and removal of some plates). That's what I have. I race harescrambles, enduros and endurocross and found my clutch burnt.

The EXP 2.0 is probably a decent product, but I just don't think it holds up to the abuse of racing (and Rekluse doesn't market it as a race-product). '07-'09 YZ450f's remove three friction and three drive plates to make room for the EXP unit (so you go from 8 of each to 5). I've since converted my '08 to the '06-style clutch as a workaround (which lets me run 6 of each), but that's not the most cost effective solution.

That said, when the exp 2.0 is working... it's fantastic. For the differnece it makes to my riding, I'd rather have an auto clutch than a suspension revalve. I just wish I could do it over and get a differnet version.

[grayracer513]

CK's experience is exactly what I meant by my comment about the EXP not being my first choice. OK for most rec riders if they don't use the bike too hard, and the unit works fine. It just has no reserve capacity, to put it that way.

[Family Man]

What about getting a larger rear sprocket? You shouldn't have to be wacking the clutch all the time.

Edited January 16, 2013 by Family Man

[grayracer513]

You can't buy a sprocket large enough to do what a Rekluse can do, and if you did, you'd be giving up way too much top speed.

[YZPaGuy]

Thanks for the replies guys. I'm going with the Core EXP. Grey is right about a sproket not big enough. My bike has tons and tons of work done to it. it is good now but I want the auto clutch just to stop the stalling when my clutch hand gets tired. I am also hoping it will help with starting in gear, it doesn't sound like it will but one can hope.

Here on the east coast we get into some pretty nasty mud races. I use my clutch a ton for traction, especially on hill climbs so I think the Core EXP will be the best option. My buddy has a sponsorship so we get them at a reduced cost.

The only other thing on the list is to get the front end a little more stable and turning better. I'm going to try raising the forks in the triple clamps some, maybe start at 3mm higher then the top of the top clamp 1 mm below the ring around the fork? Suspension is spot on, maybe a little soft in the front but pretty good. Just seems to push in the corners a little too much and does it real bad in sloppy mud.

Just trial and error with the suspension from here on out. If you have any suggestions let me know!

[FinchFan194]

I had my 08 done by TBT racing and it goes anywhere I point it now, forks slid up or not. My bike had terrible front end push before that.

[mfoti]

So if you exclude durability from the equation what does the z-start do that the cheap exp doesn't? I am a recreational rider on a 2011 450 who does trails and mx but i never race so durability is less of my concern. However, i do like the sound of a softer feeling clutch lever. is there a big difference in feel? What else does the z-start do for me that the exp doesn't.

[FinchFan194]

The zstart pro doesn't have much clutch feel as far as slipping it out of corners and what not it is more of an on or off thing as far as a lever. Now I have mine setup with medium rpm and soft engagement so it slips it for me if it needs to.

[YZPaGuy]

The zstart pro doesn't have much clutch feel as far as slipping it out of corners and what not it is more of an on or off thing as far as a lever. Now I have mine setup with medium rpm and soft engagement so it slips it for me if it needs to.

Exactly what the guy at Rekluse told me. I want the normal clutch use for traction so the Core EXP is the only choice. If I was on a bike with less HP I would get the Z-start or if I didn't race.

[grayracer513]

I don't follow your logic at all. For one thing, I doubt your YZ450 has significantly more power than mine. For another, a bike with more HP would need the clutch slipped less leaving a corner, and with any 450, all I can say is that's what God gave you a gearbox for. Leave that BS to the two-stroke riders. The Z-start is an absolutely rugged clutch. I've crawled mine over a quarter mile of rock before and no part of the clutch complained in any way, unless you want to count the times it got hot enough to blow oil smoke out the breather. Clutch modulation in the tricky stuff is so smooth it's about a half step away from having an automatic trans, torque converter and all. I just about never pull the clutch lever at all any more.

The issue of clutch slipping and lever feel is pretty subjective. Once you get used to it, it's really not that weird. Besides, as I said, it's totally unnecessary IMO. You'll get a lot more out of stepping down a gear than from slipping the clutch. Traction control should be done with the throttle.

Having said all that, the Core EXP is probably a better choice for MX, and it is their top of the line product, and a great clutch. But even then, there's very little that the Z-Start can't do that the Core EXP can, not counting the bump staring thing.

[FinchFan194]

I agree 100% with Gray.

[FinchFan194]

Kind of off topic, but I just got done about an hour ago installing a Z-start Pro on my sons 65SX! What a pain it was! You have to press 6 keepers off the ring gear to remove the OEM clutch basket and then attach the included Rekluse clutch basket to the OEM ring gear and one thing that is a pain is the ball bearing are located on the bottom of the clutch so you have to completely disassemble to adjust any ball bearings. Anyway it took about 3 hours to install, but I just got done putting it around and it will be well worth it for him! I am super excited to see how much he likes it. I reckon he will live it!!!

[mfoti]

Still not sure on the differences between the Z-start and the cheap $400 exp? I know the exp is not as durable as the Z-start but is one smoother than the other? Does one have a more "regular" clutch feel?

[grayracer513]

See post #3 again. The EXP "feels" normal. The Z-SPro is smoother.

[YZPaGuy]

I don't follow your logic at all. For one thing, I doubt your YZ450 has significantly more power than mine. For another, a bike with more HP would need the clutch slipped less leaving a corner, and with any 450, all I can say is that's what God gave you a gearbox for. Leave that BS to the two-stroke riders. The Z-start is an absolutely rugged clutch. I've crawled mine over a quarter mile of rock before and no part of the clutch complained in any way, unless you want to count the times it got hot enough to blow oil smoke out the breather. Clutch modulation in the tricky stuff is so smooth it's about a half step away from having an automatic trans, torque converter and all. I just about never pull the clutch lever at all any more.

The issue of clutch slipping and lever feel is pretty subjective. Once you get used to it, it's really not that weird. Besides, as I said, it's totally unnecessary IMO. You'll get a lot more out of stepping down a gear than from slipping the clutch. Traction control should be done with the throttle.

Having said all that, the Core EXP is probably a better choice for MX, and it is their top of the line product, and a great clutch. But even then, there's very little that the Z-Start can't do that the Core EXP can, not counting the bump staring thing.

There is no logic for me, LOL. Seriously, I was just talking with my buddies last night about this. In the sloppy mud the 450 breaks loose faster without perfect throttle control. Thats fine for the first hour but in the second hour when I am losing my strength I start to lose that throttle control. Thats when having a bike with less HP would be more forgiving.

In theory I agree with you about the Zstart and just riding like it's an auto but I have no experience with the Rekluse yet so I am just imagining what I want and the clutch will be like. I was just saying last night I will probably put the Core EXP in and never use the clutch lever again, LOL, but at least I will know for the bike!

I don't doubt the Zstart is a great clutch. A couple of my buddies have them and like them allot.

In the mud I try to hold the throttle steady and modulate the clutch for traction same for the soft sand. Like you said, you don't use the clutch hardly at all. I can forsee that happening for me also but for my first clutch I would hate to buy the cheaper one and then wish I had the clutch lever. Just my way of thinking, not sayinng its right, let me know your thoughs.

I would really like to hear from someone that rides sloppy mud that has a Rekluse. That could sway me.

[grayracer513]

In any case,one thing to bear in mind with any Rekluse is that the fact that the engine can be cranked without pulling the clutch lever DOES NOT mean it's in neutral. Almost everybody has a close call or two because of this if the bike will start in gear. Blip the throttle just a bit as it starts and you find out quickly whether it's in gear or not. Oops. Can be embarrassing, maybe worse.

The other thing is that if your YZ450 is typically difficult to start in gear, you may find yourself realizing that it's not in neutral after you've spent 10 minutes kicking the dog one hot day.

The whole thing takes a little getting used to. Auto clutches are really cool in their place, but they aren't for everyone, necessarily

[YZPaGuy]

No doubt, mine doesn't start in gear well at all. Not too bad when it is at the magic temp but still not reliable enough for me to start in gear at the line. I always start in nuetral and it always costs me three places. I am usually between 4th and 6th off the line due to starting in neutral. What I am hoping is that it makes it more reliable to start in gear when the bike is at that magic temp. It will start in gear at that temp now about 60 to 70% of the time. Once it heats up then it is almost impossible to start it in gear. I have noticed with my friends that have a Rekluse that finding nuetral is tough and that makes starting the bike hard. We will see, I am excited to get it installed and see how it works. I'm sure I'll have some mistake blips getting used to it, LOL, I just hope it's when I am wearing the GoPro so everyone can see my fail.

I'm going to pull the bike apart this weekend, new piston, rings, timing chain, have the head inspected, cylinder inspected, possibly have the cylinder replated, all the internal bearings checked, well what I can get to without spliting the cases, intensive cleaning, swing arm bearings, suspension linkage, wheel bearings, chain, sprokets, tires, tubes, graphics, just going to overhaul the whole bike in the next 6 weeks before the race season starts