More precise throttle travel?


15 replies to this topic
  • Xyzzy

Posted December 14, 2012 - 04:23 AM

#1

I am a beginner so I am happy with the limited throttle screw in my '09 WR450's carb.

I was wondering if there was a way to keep the limited throw in the carb but use all of the throw in the throttle grip?

That would offer me a lot more control. (Does that make sense?)

Thanks!

PS - On a totally stock bike (I just bought it new as a leftover '09) if all I do is remove the AIS crap, in general, how far off is the jetting going to be from ideal? I don't know anything about jetting and I don't want to make it worse or break anything. I ride around 250-500' ASL if that matters. I have only ridden it a few times (5 miles total) to heat cycle it and right now it is torn down so I can lube the pivot points, etc.

Edited by Xyzzy, December 14, 2012 - 04:24 AM.


  • MANIAC998

Posted December 14, 2012 - 04:56 AM

#2

You won't hurt anything by removing the AIS stuff and not rejetting it. Fourstrokes are bathed in oil, so they are extremely tolerant of lean jetting. Your just not going to be getting full power out of it without proper jetting and removing the throttle limiter screw. But it sounds like that's perfect for you for the time being. When your ready, open her up and let her rip!!!

  • miweber929

Posted December 14, 2012 - 05:27 AM

#3

There is no performance to be gained by pulling the AIS crap so don't feel like you HAVE to. It more in the way and has a small amount of weight but it does t do anything but make the exhaust pop a little more on deceleration.

Ride it as is until you want the full power then do everything in one swoop. Your jetting will work just fine as is like Maniac mentions.

  • Xyzzy

Posted December 14, 2012 - 05:43 AM

#4

You won't hurt anything by removing the AIS stuff and not rejetting it. Fourstrokes are bathed in oil, so they are extremely tolerant of lean jetting.


I didn't know that! That is great to hear because my biggest fear is an expensive engine repair.

There is no performance to be gained by pulling the AIS crap so don't feel like you HAVE to. It more in the way and has a small amount of weight but it does t do anything but make the exhaust pop a little more on deceleration.


It was easy to pull off because I have it torn down. All I need to do is machine a block-off plate and plug the two places the hoses go. I have two Honda VTX 1800 road bikes that have a similar air system (PAIR valve) that I removed. In that case I got some really cool billet aluminum plates.

Posted Image

Posted Image

  • MANIAC998

Posted December 14, 2012 - 08:41 AM

#5

AHhhhhhh!!! Bikes in the house! I love those older, simpler days!!! Showing it some Love! Good for you!!!!

  • Bandit9

Posted December 14, 2012 - 03:44 PM

#6

If you want more precision with the throttle, do this:

1. Remove stock Accelerator Pump spring and replace w/ a Merge Racing AP spring. These are cheap and easy. This will take the slack out of it.

2. Easy stuff, like lube and adjust cables. I spec the free play according to the manual. I check this stuff pretty frequently.

3: Good throttle tube. I tried the G2 Ergonomics throttle tube with the adjustable cams. Worked really well. The expensive tubes with bearings are really nice and smooth.

4. Good Motion Pro cables make it really smooth.


I wouldn't screw around much before I opened the motor up. It is so much easier to ride once I added Complete YZF exhaust, JD Jet kit, and Merge AP Spring. It just runs better, cleaner down low, consistent, and is more responsive. Starts instantly.



  • Xyzzy

Posted December 14, 2012 - 05:33 PM

#7

If you want more precision with the throttle, do this:

1. Remove stock Accelerator Pump spring and replace w/ a Merge Racing AP spring. These are cheap and easy. This will take the slack out of it.

2. Easy stuff, like lube and adjust cables. I spec the free play according to the manual. I check this stuff pretty frequently.

3: Good throttle tube. I tried the G2 Ergonomics throttle tube with the adjustable cams. Worked really well. The expensive tubes with bearings are really nice and smooth.

4. Good Motion Pro cables make it really smooth.


You mention the Motion Pro cables. Do you think this Motion Pro kit (With the 35mm reel or one of these progressive cams.) would be as good as the G2 kit? (I see the G2 kit is available with bearings but I am not sure the Motion Pro kit has them.)

I wouldn't screw around much before I opened the motor up. It is so much easier to ride once I added Complete YZF exhaust, JD Jet kit, and Merge AP Spring. It just runs better, cleaner down low, consistent, and is more responsive. Starts instantly.


I certainly want it to run like that, but I really want it to be quiet and (since I am a beginner) I'm a bit worried about having a 50HP hit just a twist away. I think my MSO says it has 24HP. Plus, not revving it out and making crazy horsepower should be better for reliability, right?

I'm willing to do whatever it takes. There are just so many options that it is overwhelming.
  • Goals:
    • Quiet.
    • Reliable.
    • Smooth.
    • Beginner-friendly.
    • Easy to start.
  • Plan:
    • Premium throttle cables and throttle tube assembly, set up and lubed properly.
    • Throttle cam.
    • Accelerator pump spring.
    • Fuel mixture screw?
    • Engine Ice coolant. (I have this because I don't want my dog to lick up regular antifreeze.)
    • 52T rear sprocket. (I don't need to go 90MPH and it should mean less clutch abuse in technical sections.)
    • Everything else stock?
Thanks for listening!

:)

  • Bandit9

Posted December 14, 2012 - 07:58 PM

#8

I run the Pro Moto Billet End Cap with Spark Arrestor, with the "Shorty" YZ OEM 08 silencer. It is not that loud. It will pass Sound at Enduros. If needed, an FMF Q4 should solve any sound issues.

I just think it's easier to ride a bike that is not corked up with a bunch of lean spots causing it to fall on it's face. It really isn't a power thing, more like letting the motor run clean and properly, plus being responsive but in a controlled smooth way. Easier to ride that way instead of stalling, overheating, dead battery, kick starting it, starts to suck, then go home.

When you do finally uncork it, you will find out you should've done it sooner.image.jpg

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  • Bandit9

Posted December 14, 2012 - 08:29 PM

#9

Clean jetting with better exhaust will lead to easy starting. Adding a Shorai battery will further make starting a 1 push affair.

If the OEM cables are still ok, just use those. Just adjust them and lube them.

After you uncork it, 13/50 gearing works good for me on tight singletrack. I would think that a 52t rear would make it pull harder down low and be more sensitive throttle wise, which is what a beginner doesn't need. Once uncorked, the transition from 2nd to 3rd is pretty sweet and smooth, requiring less clutch, which solves a lot of beginner problems with stalling.

Correct springs for your weight and proper tire for your terrain is what I would focus on after getting the motor freed up and running right.

Learn to ride. Knowing how little pressure it really takes to work clutch and front brake levers makes for more fun. Learn to ride standing up. Hold on to the bike squeezing with your legs, not your hands. I keep my pointer fingers touching the levers at all times. Use 2 fingers when I need to, but always keep 1 touching the lever.

Enjoy the set up and riding time. It is very fun at this stage.



  • Xyzzy

Posted December 14, 2012 - 09:18 PM

#10

Clean jetting with better exhaust will lead to easy starting. Adding a Shorai battery will further make starting a 1 push affair.


I suppose I will need to learn how to jet the bike. I will look into the Shorai battery. (I assume it is a LiFe chemistry battery.)

If the OEM cables are still ok, just use those. Just adjust them and lube them.


Everything is new.

After you uncork it, 13/50 gearing works good for me on tight singletrack. I would think that a 52t rear would make it pull harder down low and be more sensitive throttle wise, which is what a beginner doesn't need. Once uncorked, the transition from 2nd to 3rd is pretty sweet and smooth, requiring less clutch, which solves a lot of beginner problems with stalling.


I did a pile of searches here on the WR450 forum and the 52T rear sprocket came up as a pretty popular option. I will re-evaluate this.

Correct springs for your weight and proper tire for your terrain is what I would focus on after getting the motor freed up and running right.


In the process of tearing the whole bike apart I plan to put the right springs in and hopefully learn to do basic suspension maintenance. (Fork oil, fork seals, etc.)

Since I plan to have everything apart I figure now is the time to make the mods I want. There is a hare scrambles series starting in February but I think that is too soon. I really need to get some seat time on the bike first. (Finding a place to ride is on my things to do list!)

Learn to ride. Knowing how little pressure it really takes to work clutch and front brake levers makes for more fun. Learn to ride standing up. Hold on to the bike squeezing with your legs, not your hands. I keep my pointer fingers touching the levers at all times. Use 2 fingers when I need to, but always keep 1 touching the lever.


I doubt this helps much, but I have extensive BMX and cross-country MTB racing experience. I also have street bike experience. Part of what makes me cautious right now is I learned to ride on a CBR1000RR a year and a half ago and that was very scary. Up until that point I had never ridden a motorcycle before. (Long story!) The part about standing up totally makes sense from both BMX and MTB racing. I am so used to standing I run my bicycle levers at a 45 degree down drop so I can work them better standing up.

Enjoy the set up and riding time. It is very fun at this stage.


I am having a lot of fun! Thanks!

FWIW, here is a list of my notes of things I have done or plan to do:
  • buy appropriate work stand
  • make list of tools used and perhaps buy some nice ones
    • i do have 3 nice torque wrenches which helps a lot!
  • install throttle cam
  • install barkbusters (the ones that wrap around to the bar end)
  • buy low pressure tire gauge
  • grease wheels, steering and swingarm bearings and rear shock linkage
    • might need some special bearing pullers and presses
  • install hour meter
  • install engine ice
  • install magnetic oil drain plug
    • the blue gytr one is pretty
  • research air filters and air filter oil and find the best solution
  • buy tire irons
  • buy bridgestone uhd tubes
  • learn to change tires
  • install the proper springs front and rear
  • switch to m1 synthetic oil
    • i use it in everything from my lawnmower to my corvette
    • naturally on the bike i will use the version w/o friction modifiers
  • set the sag front and rear and adjust suspension (front 75mm? rear 105mm?)
  • jetting (this is my biggest hangup)
    • i had an opportunity to buy a 2012 wr450 with fi but i got the leftover new '09 for $5600, which is a lot less!
    • the fi would have simplified things but $2500+ buys a lot of other stuff, plus computers can break
  • install 52t rear sprocket?
  • research and buy helmet, boots, gloves, goggles, pants, shirt and good underwear
  • research fork air bleeder valves
  • trim bars?
  • find or fabricate an ais block plate
  • install appropriate tires
    • a survey on the local hare scrambles forum put the michelin s12xc (f&r) as the winner by far
  • buy valve stem tool
  • buy quality tiedown straps
  • buy belray waterproof grease for bearings and stuff
  • find a yu-33975/90890-01403 steering bolt tool
  • lower rear brake and install stiffer rear brake spring
  • install lock-on grips
    • i've used odi "ruffian" grips for years although i am not sure if they are appropriate for the wr450
  • research whether or not to lube the chain
  • install ap spring and possibly fuel screw
  • since the bike is apart learn to do valve and cam chain maintenance (i'll probably pull the engine)
  • buy trailer
  • buy hitch and wire tow vehicle


  • miweber929

Posted December 14, 2012 - 09:37 PM

#11

I've got an 06 1000RR, have been riding for 36 years (since I was 4) and that bike still scares the hell out of me at times so I can't imagine it as a newbie bike!!

Be thankful you have a WR and not a 250 2 stroke as the powerbands on those are light switch quick and a bear to ride smooth. Keep you WR corked up for a while until you get more used to it and rejet and tune it later this summer. The WR can be a beast, but is pretty docile down low and stock so it's a good bike as is. Setup suspension, learn to ride it as is and let 'er rip as time goes on.

PM me if you have any questions, be glad to help.

Mike

  • wrwest

Posted December 15, 2012 - 10:25 AM

#12

Just dont use a 12. front sprocket as the chain eats into the metal gaurd behind the sprocket and next is the case!!!! I have the t shirt.

  • wrwest

Posted December 15, 2012 - 10:28 AM

#13

I suppose I will need to learn how to jet the bike. I will look into the Shorai battery. (I assume it is a LiFe chemistry battery.)



Everything is new.



I did a pile of searches here on the WR450 forum and the 52T rear sprocket came up as a pretty popular option. I will re-evaluate this.



In the process of tearing the whole bike apart I plan to put the right springs in and hopefully learn to do basic suspension maintenance. (Fork oil, fork seals, etc.)

Since I plan to have everything apart I figure now is the time to make the mods I want. There is a hare scrambles series starting in February but I think that is too soon. I really need to get some seat time on the bike first. (Finding a place to ride is on my things to do list!)



I doubt this helps much, but I have extensive BMX and cross-country MTB racing experience. I also have street bike experience. Part of what makes me cautious right now is I learned to ride on a CBR1000RR a year and a half ago and that was very scary. Up until that point I had never ridden a motorcycle before. (Long story!) The part about standing up totally makes sense from both BMX and MTB racing. I am so used to standing I run my bicycle levers at a 45 degree down drop so I can work them better standing up.



I am having a lot of fun! Thanks!

FWIW, here is a list of my notes of things I have done or plan to do:

  • buy appropriate work stand
  • make list of tools used and perhaps buy some nice ones
    • i do have 3 nice torque wrenches which helps a lot!
  • install throttle cam
  • install barkbusters (the ones that wrap around to the bar end)
  • buy low pressure tire gauge
  • grease wheels, steering and swingarm bearings and rear shock linkage
    • might need some special bearing pullers and presses
  • install hour meter
  • install engine ice
  • install magnetic oil drain plug
    • the blue gytr one is pretty
  • research air filters and air filter oil and find the best solution
  • buy tire irons
  • buy bridgestone uhd tubes
  • learn to change tires
  • install the proper springs front and rear
  • switch to m1 synthetic oil
    • i use it in everything from my lawnmower to my corvette
    • naturally on the bike i will use the version w/o friction modifiers
  • set the sag front and rear and adjust suspension (front 75mm? rear 105mm?)
  • jetting (this is my biggest hangup)
    • i had an opportunity to buy a 2012 wr450 with fi but i got the leftover new '09 for $5600, which is a lot less!
    • the fi would have simplified things but $2500+ buys a lot of other stuff, plus computers can break
  • install 52t rear sprocket?
  • research and buy helmet, boots, gloves, goggles, pants, shirt and good underwear
  • research fork air bleeder valves
  • trim bars?
  • find or fabricate an ais block plate
  • install appropriate tires
    • a survey on the local hare scrambles forum put the michelin s12xc (f&r) as the winner by far
  • buy valve stem tool
  • buy quality tiedown straps
  • buy belray waterproof grease for bearings and stuff
  • find a yu-33975/90890-01403 steering bolt tool
  • lower rear brake and install stiffer rear brake spring
  • install lock-on grips
    • i've used odi "ruffian" grips for years although i am not sure if they are appropriate for the wr450
  • research whether or not to lube the chain
  • install ap spring and possibly fuel screw
  • since the bike is apart learn to do valve and cam chain maintenance (i'll probably pull the engine)
  • buy trailer
  • buy hitch and wire tow vehicle



  • Xyzzy

Posted December 15, 2012 - 11:08 AM

#14

Just dont use a 12. front sprocket as the chain eats into the metal gaurd behind the sprocket and next is the case!!!! I have the t shirt.


Yeah, I read a few threads where that happened.

I find even a 13 a bit small but I am looking at it from a "bicycle chain" point of view. The smaller a sprocket is the more wear (per tooth) happens and the less efficient it is. Check out figure 2.14 in this article.

  • Xyzzy

Posted December 17, 2012 - 09:42 PM

#15

  • since the bike is apart learn to do valve and cam chain maintenance (i'll probably pull the engine)


Well, I guess I pulled the engine.

Posted Image

Today I sent the carb off to Zip-Ty.

:thumbsup:

I've got an 06 1000RR, have been riding for 36 years (since I was 4) and that bike still scares the hell out of me at times so I can't imagine it as a newbie bike!!


The CBR1000RR lasted around two weeks before I returned it for a smaller bike. I did make a similar mistake earlier this year and bought a '12 ZX-14R but in that case the computer's (very impressive) torque management and traction control kept things under a bit more control. In the end, however, I lack the maturity to ride responsibly so I traded it in for a cruiser. I'm desperately trying to make sure I don't put myself into a similar situation with my WR.

:)

  • Krannie McKranface

Posted December 19, 2012 - 05:40 AM

#16

You mention 'more precise throttle control' in your post title:

Uncorking, Merge racing spring, easily accessible fuel screw, and proper jetting all contribute to this.
Don't think of 'mods' as just 'increases in performance'.
Everything recommended so far is speficically designed to improve CONTROL over the motor, and the bike.

I would go one more and highly recommend the R&D remote fuel screw, and the R&D powerbowl II.
The powerbowl makes a noticeable improvement in partial throttle opening feedback, making precise throttle control much better.

That, and the G2 'throttle tamer' throttle tube. It has a more gradual cam effect on the throttle openings, so a 25 percent turn of the throttle gives you 15% opening of the throttle slide. MUCH more room for error this way.

....oh, and lots of Fabreeze, to the that 'new bike' smell out of the house.......




 
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