TECHNICAL HELP REQUIRED


23 replies to this topic
  • SEDUCE

Posted November 28, 2012 - 09:34 PM

#1

hey guys i have a 2003 wr450 that i have done the upgrade on the to the 04 starter gears. NOW this is my drama
When i brought the bike the starter was shagged it didnt work and the gears on the shaft were worn down. Now i brought a new one from "motor city reman" and the bike has only been electric started like 8 times an the starter is &%$#@! again. It just clicks on the starter solenoid so i put a multimeter on the leads and it has continuety on both the earth and the power and then i took the cover off the starter gear and seen if it spins and the shaft has ben worn down again.
What would be causing it to do this?
ALso the only thing i havent done is put the spacers on either side of the gear and cover for the starter gear but i dont think that would do anything???
Can anyone help me out why or how it is doing this as it is starting to cost me too much to fix and ride????
PLEASE SOMEONE HELP ME
I love riding but this bike is driving me crazy.

  • hafte

Posted November 29, 2012 - 04:50 AM

#2

Put some pictures first and then explain how and what you do on 2003 to 2004 mod. Changed part and etc.

  • PBDBLUE

Posted November 29, 2012 - 07:04 AM

#3

Are you sure the bike just isn't stuck at TDC? WR's sometimes will land there when the motor is shut down and the starter can't overcome it because the valves are closed. Try putting the bike in gear and rocking it back and forth a bit to get the piston to move past that point. If that's the cause then it should start right up. Kind of a pain but it's the nature of the beast.

Edited by PBDBLUE, November 29, 2012 - 07:05 AM.


  • SEDUCE

Posted November 29, 2012 - 11:07 AM

#4

Are you sure the bike just isn't stuck at TDC? WR's sometimes will land there when the motor is shut down and the starter can't overcome it because the valves are closed. Try putting the bike in gear and rocking it back and forth a bit to get the piston to move past that point. If that's the cause then it should start right up. Kind of a pain but it's the nature of the beast.

no mate i have tried several times and if you push kick starter down a bit it makes a funny noise but will not wind it over.
makes like a screatching noise and clicks under seat.
battery is 12.6 volts so not battery.
i will post pics of the shaft to show.
the 03 to 04 mods are the starter gear update with the rounded cover for starter gear and the absorber type gear instead of solid gear.

  • PBDBLUE

Posted November 30, 2012 - 07:25 AM

#5

hey guys i have a 2003 wr450 that i have done the upgrade on the to the 04 starter gears. NOW this is my drama
When i brought the bike the starter was shagged it didnt work and the gears on the shaft were worn down. Now i brought a new one from "motor city reman" and the bike has only been electric started like 8 times an the starter is &%$#@! again. It just clicks on the starter solenoid so i put a multimeter on the leads and it has continuety on both the earth and the power and then i took the cover off the starter gear and seen if it spins and the shaft has ben worn down again.
What would be causing it to do this?
ALso the only thing i havent done is put the spacers on either side of the gear and cover for the starter gear but i dont think that would do anything???
Can anyone help me out why or how it is doing this as it is starting to cost me too much to fix and ride????
PLEASE SOMEONE HELP ME
I love riding but this bike is driving me crazy.


Has the flywheel been loctited to the crankshaft? That was Yamaha's initial fix when they had problems with the flywheel key beeing sheared on the 03's but it resulted in causing damage to other compontents much like what you are describing. I would do the '04 upgrade.

  • SEDUCE

Posted December 06, 2012 - 02:36 AM

#6

Has the flywheel been loctited to the crankshaft? That was Yamaha's initial fix when they had problems with the flywheel key beeing sheared on the 03's but it resulted in causing damage to other compontents much like what you are describing. I would do the '04 upgrade.


Whats the 04 upgrade as i have all ready done most of the 04 upgrade????
So you saying i should loctite the flywheel to the crank?
How does that cause any dramas with the starter motor ? I just dont understand how it could ?

  • PBDBLUE

Posted December 06, 2012 - 02:07 PM

#7

Sorry my bad. I thought you hadn't done the '04 upgrade.Did you put the reducer bushings in the case and cover for the '04 torque limiter. The shaft is smaller than the '03 idler gear shaft. If you didn't there will be excessive play and that would certainly result isn some damage. Since you said that you started the bike several times before it failed that's not likely the problem. Don't know what to tell you.

  • miweber929

Posted December 06, 2012 - 04:23 PM

#8

Ok, here's what we see (and hear) long distance: my starter was messed up so I threw a bunch of parts at it (but didn't put ALL the parts required in and skipped the cheapest 2 parts) and its messed up again.

Like was mentioned on rhe first post without pictures we're pretty much guessing.

Start taking stuff apart, they're gears, should mesh and last forever with minimal maintenance. Compare what you have with the parts fiche diagram and see what's missing. Lots if 03 to 04 starter upgrade instructions on this site....this should be a fairly easy to spot issue.

  • SEDUCE

Posted December 08, 2012 - 06:16 PM

#9

I done the whole conversion from 03 to 04 except the two washers would that cause it to do this?
I think my starter has shorted inside and locked up and then when the engine has been kick started it has worn the shaft down i guess.
That is the only thing i can think of as when i go to electric start the bike it just clicks now and doesnt even wind over wven with out the gear on the shaft.
I can feel the starter motor click and it buzzes but wont wind over.
I have two pics but you can barely see the shaft worn down.
Posted Image
Posted Image

  • PBDBLUE

Posted December 08, 2012 - 07:18 PM

#10

It looks like you are missing the bushing for the torque limiter shaft. Yamaha part # 90380-10002-00. It presses into the bore where the torque limiter shaft goes. Don't see one in your pic. Without it there will be excesive play and most likely is what caused the damage.

Edited by PBDBLUE, December 08, 2012 - 07:21 PM.


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  • SEDUCE

Posted December 08, 2012 - 07:24 PM

#11

It looks like you are missing the bushing for the torque limiter shaft. Yamaha part # 90380-10002-00. It presses into the bore where the torque limiter shaft goes. Don't see one in your pic. Without it there will be excesive play and most likely is what caused the damage.

Oh ok where does this go mate?
I ordered everything on that page that was different from 03 to 04 in this http://www.partshark...=2004&fveh=1249

Edited by SEDUCE, December 08, 2012 - 07:28 PM.


  • miweber929

Posted December 08, 2012 - 07:32 PM

#12

Yup, it looks like something was installed wrong and caused that middle gear to either stop spinning or your starter doesn't spin free and put excessive wear on your starter shaft. I'd think you'd have metal in your oil with that much wear! And some hellish noises.

Try your starter and see if it works (spins) first. Then you'll have to determine what's spinning and what's not functioning correctly. I do think those spacers are important and may have caused some issues. It's a simple starting system so finding the issue shouldn't be too bad.

Of I had my bike around I'd start pulling stuff apart to see what's up. It's tucked away 200 miles from me so I'm kind of stuck. Did you put in a brand new starter or a used one? There should be a one way clutch that should spin free off the flywheel, or someway to keek everything from moving a the time; that's you issue. Hopefully someone here has more info than I do.

  • hafte

Posted December 08, 2012 - 11:08 PM

#13

You are missing the 90380-10002-00 bushing. One must to be installed on picture 2.
Here is complete part required for upgrade. Post 6 http://www.thumperta...rsion-tutorial/

  • SEDUCE

Posted December 09, 2012 - 01:16 AM

#14

Yup, it looks like something was installed wrong and caused that middle gear to either stop spinning or your starter doesn't spin free and put excessive wear on your starter shaft. I'd think you'd have metal in your oil with that much wear! And some hellish noises.

Try your starter and see if it works (spins) first. Then you'll have to determine what's spinning and what's not functioning correctly. I do think those spacers are important and may have caused some issues. It's a simple starting system so finding the issue shouldn't be too bad.

Of I had my bike around I'd start pulling stuff apart to see what's up. It's tucked away 200 miles from me so I'm kind of stuck. Did you put in a brand new starter or a used one? There should be a one way clutch that should spin free off the flywheel, or someway to keek everything from moving a the time; that's you issue. Hopefully someone here has more info than I do.

No the starter doesnt spin at all even with out any gears installed like pic one above. The spacers you say are the washers correct?

You are missing the 90380-10002-00 bushing. One must to be installed on picture 2.
Here is complete part required for upgrade. Post 6 http://www.thumperta...rsion-tutorial/

Where is that part on the link i posted as it is not listed on there and where does it go????

  • SEDUCE

Posted December 09, 2012 - 01:25 AM

#15

That part number doesnt come up for a 2004 model as i put this into the link 90380-10002-00 and it comes up with 2008 model and they go where the washers are either side of the starter dampner???????
IS this correct can someone please help out as i am confused???

  • hafte

Posted December 09, 2012 - 02:16 AM

#16

The part 90380-10002-00 goes in the hole of the picture 2, the crankcase cover side. This bearing reduce the hole diameter. The bearing is build up in crankcase cover from 2004, and is the same as the bearing installed in circle starter cover.
I already done this mod, before 2 years.

  • miweber929

Posted December 09, 2012 - 06:12 AM

#17

Your starter is hosed, #1 so you'll need another one first. Then yeah, the washers are spacers. Why didn't you put them in if you bought everything for the swap? All the mod lists I've seen spell those out pretty clearly.

Someone correct me if im wrong here, but at my end at least it looks like something hung up and kept trying to spin the starter motor which then over heated and siezed. Again, there should be a one way clutch on something that would disengage the starter once the bike starts. Since I haven't personally been that deep in my bike or starter I can only say its usually attach and behind the flywheel. When you hit the starter button it engages the starter, which spins, spins the 04 gear you have just replaced, then spinning the gear in the lower part of your pic which then spins the flywheel. Either the flywheel or that still in the case secondary gear should have a one way clutch on it to stop it from spinning once the motor starts or everything in your case will constantly spin. With no oil in there it would wear pretty quickly.

I'm thinking yours is either siezed, broken, ect. If I get some time I'll dig through the fiche to see if I can figure out what's up. But look though your manual, might help. If you start the bike as is you will probably see that lower gear spin with the engine running. I'm thinking it shouldn't.

  • PBDBLUE

Posted December 09, 2012 - 07:29 AM

#18

The bushing is not shown in the parts fiche. It's part of the cover in the '04 and up models. Way back BajaFool was able to find the part number for the bushing itself which saved the cost of replacing the entire cover. The bushing presses into the bore where the torque limiter shaft goes. At this point I would order the bushing, the spacer washers (you need them) and a new starter.

  • miweber929

Posted December 09, 2012 - 04:08 PM

#19

I was right, one way starter clutch:

http://www.ronayers..../STARTER_CLUTCH_

Pretty sure it's bad or at least jammed. Take off the side cover and check it out to be sure.

Mike

  • SEDUCE

Posted December 10, 2012 - 03:13 AM

#20

The bushing is not shown in the parts fiche. It's part of the cover in the '04 and up models. Way back BajaFool was able to find the part number for the bushing itself which saved the cost of replacing the entire cover. The bushing presses into the bore where the torque limiter shaft goes. At this point I would order the bushing, the spacer washers (you need them) and a new starter.

Well shouldnt the idler gear be loose in there then if it didnt have that bush as it is tight as in there when i install those two gears????
Yes i have installed the washers as i done that when i took these pics above.
So now i just need the so called bush?

I was right, one way starter clutch:

http://www.ronayers..../STARTER_CLUTCH_

Pretty sure it's bad or at least jammed. Take off the side cover and check it out to be sure.

Mike

Well i did replace that part as that was part of the reason i done the upgrade mine was fingered.
To check it the gear should only spin one way correct?




 
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