2010+ 450 starting for scrambles


9 replies to this topic
  • Joe846

Posted September 11, 2012 - 08:10 PM

#1

So, I can start my 450 just fine, as long as I follow the procedure. I can also start it quickly and consistently for the most part if I follow the procedure after killing it in gear and putting into neutral with the clutch in. However, sometimes when I practice this, in anticipation of hare scrambles starting up again here in Northern CA, it just doesn't start. Sometimes it almost starts, sometimes it coughs, sometimes it starts. I'd say 60%+ it starts, and 30%+ it coughs.

My procedure is as follows: Kick several times to power the injectors, find stiff spot in kick starter rotation, reset to top, kick solidly through to bottom and hold at bottom for a second until the spark catches and the motor starts. No throttle at all until I'm 100% sure it's not only ignited but is turning over at rpm's.

For starts (haven't raced it yet, so theoretically), I'd do the same, keep it warm, kill it at the line in neutral and follow the same procedure. Or, kill it in 2nd, clutch in, keep the clutch in and try to start it with the same procedure, only in gear.

Anyone who has thoughts other "crack the throttle", I'd greatly appreciate it! And if the answer really does involve "crack the throttle" then by all means! Starting in 2nd? Starting in neutral with a starting a box and catch first after it fires? Did you change the starting map on the ECU not just the map/ign with the GYTR Power Tuner?

I'd love to hear your starting procedure for dead engine starts, that don't involve letting everyone rip away from you!! Thanks.

  • Crusty Cy

Posted September 12, 2012 - 06:08 PM

#2

Sounds like a good plan - in the driveway with no pressure. I've run 6 hare scrambles this year and the bike has started on the first kick twice, but the other 4 times let's just say I was sitting on the line for awhile. Not to rain on your parade, but I certainly hope you have better luck than me. It seems to start the best with the MXA or Yamaha "Less Hit" map, the broad map and woods map from the forum work OK when cold. However, when the bike warms up, forget it - I've kicked for up to 2 minutes. Last night after an oil change I started it 6 times in a row on one kick, there is no way I could do that in a race. I think the bike is still the best one I've ever owned, except for the inconsistent starting.

  • antfizzle

Posted September 13, 2012 - 12:14 AM

#3

Check into the Vortex ignitions, I know whibs has that on his Yamaha, and hell, he's been holeshot king all year at GNCC

  • Joe846

Posted September 13, 2012 - 09:47 AM

#4

Thanks guys. Does anyone know for sure if the starting map is affected at all by the GYTR Power Tuner? I was under the impression it wasn't, so no matter what "map" you ran, starting fuel/air was still the same. I assumed that's why people were remapping ECU's, running Vortex ignitions and adding power commanders and what not?

Also, I can't tell from watching Whibley, but it doesn't seem like he starts in neutral, right? I think using a small starting box, like he does, and kicking it in neutral would be the ticket. Then foot back on the box, tick into gear and pull away. It just doesn't seem like he's waiting to change gears, but that could be because the fueling/vortex ign...

  • antfizzle

Posted September 14, 2012 - 06:38 AM

#5

Man I would be willing to bet he starts in second gear, if you watch close, he'll kick then take off with both legs off the pegs while he is leaning far forward,

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  • merk57

Posted September 16, 2012 - 06:39 AM

#6

i have the vortex ignition and my bike has been on the dyno and i still have this same inconsistent starting, sometimes first kick but sometimes (especially hot) she gives me hell. I've gone over my valves thinking i might have them a little tight but they are within mfg spec.. seem when the bike was newer it had a lot more consistent starting.

  • YZPaGuy

Posted September 17, 2012 - 06:35 PM

#7

Just start it in neutral. Mine starts the same as yours in gear. 60% great but the other 40% are a nightmare. I've come to the conclusion that it is better to just start in neutral and shift to first. My procedure,

warm bike up some on way to line but don't get it hot

start bike when the flag drops for every other line that goes off in front of me(each line goes off one minute apart in our races)

Do not start bike for flag drop of line directly in front of me

At ten second warning stand up on start box and find top dead center with kick starter(Got start box from KMart, it's a little black step stool that folds flat)

kick hard all the way through at flag drop(you can never tell if it actually fired until you go to take off because of all the other bikes starting next to you)

As i kick through I drop my left leg to the ground

right leg comes up as left leg is dropping

right foot shifts down

Like I said, for me it is not worth trying to start in gear. Last year I tried at 4 races to start in gear and after 2 times having it not start and being 30 to 45 seconds behind everyone i decided to just go in neutral. Even with shifting I still get some holeshots and never end up further then 4th place into the first corner. You have to remeber that most guys aren't running a 450 so when you take off you can make up a ton of time with the greater acceleration of the big bore if the start has some space.

  • grayracer513

Posted September 18, 2012 - 06:39 AM

#8

Starting in gear only works with a near perfect clutch. There's just too much drag otherwise.

  • YZPaGuy

Posted September 18, 2012 - 06:06 PM

#9

I just reread my post. I meant the other leg, right is left and left is right, man I was tired last night. LOL

  • Joe846

Posted September 18, 2012 - 07:13 PM

#10

I just reread my post. I meant the other leg, right is left and left is right, man I was tired last night. LOL


I didn't want to say anything!

So, I rode at Cow Mountain today in Northern CA, and I tried something a little different. You (or someone) mentioned that you aren't getting the motor too hot before your start, and I remembered that my bike starts fairly well/consistently before it gets too hot. When it's hot, it still starts really well in neutral, just not so much in gear.

With all that in mind, I let the bike rest a bit when we stopped, put it in second and practiced kicking it throughout the day. It wasn't perfect by any means, but it seems to start better than trying to start in second after stopping/starting on the trail. Maybe it's the clutch plates getting a chance to shrink back down from swelling in high heat? Who knows, but I may try it at the first scramble in October.

But to Gray's point, the bike still starts tons better in neutral than in gear, and when it's hot I can still kick it hard like a two stroke, crack the throttle (which I never do cold or when I follow starting procedure) and light it up. That's pretty unthinkable in gear as it almost always coughs...





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