Rotella t6 in an 08 YZ450f?



95 replies to this topic
  • grayracer513

Posted August 27, 2012 - 01:16 PM

#41

Why would you think Yamalube holds up better than Rotella?

  • shrubitup

Posted August 27, 2012 - 03:06 PM

#42

Why would you think Yamalube holds up better than Rotella?


I don't know but it is marketed and "developed" as a motorcycle specific oil implying better ability to withstand joint use in a motor and transmission.

  • grayracer513

Posted August 27, 2012 - 04:05 PM

#43

There are a number of oils that are "marketed and "developed" as a motorcycle specific oil" which fail this same shear test miserably. At one point, it was almost everybody except Amsoil and Golden Spectro, but that's improved to the point where about half (?) the premium, purpose-blended MC oils are made using high grade, durable viscosity index improvers so they'll stay in grade. Up to as far as the point where they changed vendors 1-2 years ago, none of the Yamalube products would pass the ASTM D-6278 shear test. Supposedly, they've gotten better, but no one has posted evidence of that here that I've seen. So as far as I'm concerned, it's still under suspicion, particularly at $5/quart, which I rather suspect is a petroleum only oil.

  • stroker101

Posted August 28, 2012 - 04:42 AM

#44

This thread has got me thinking. I decided that it would be worth it for my own knowledge to send some samples out to Blackstone labs and see what happens. I prepaid for 6 oil samples (I'm not made of money after all...). I normally run Maxima oil in my bikes, but I'm a firm believer in Rotella T for pretty much everything else. I just ran some Rotella T in my practice bike (YZ250F) for 2 hours and took the first sample when I changed my oil yesterday. I filled the bike up with some Yamalube for the next sample. After that I will run Rotella T6 for 2 hours for a sample, then the Maxima that I typically run for 2 hours. I will probably throw another oil in the mix since I will have some sample kits left over. I am curious to see how all of these oils compare in the same bike under the same riding conditions for the same length of time. It is going to take me a few weeks to get there, but I will post my results.


thanks for doing the leg work on this, much appreciated. my question or thoughts on sending samples in,...wouldn't BlackStone report a more accurate finding if they were at least 2 oil changes in between sending in samples? my thought is the small amount of oil still in the engine at oil change will mix with the fresh oil and the sample will be contaminated with the previous oil if not flushed out entirely? i too use BlackStone periodically for oil analysis for my Cummins Diesel. thx

  • KJ790

Posted August 28, 2012 - 04:55 AM

#45

thanks for doing the leg work on this, much appreciated. my question or thoughts on sending samples in,...wouldn't BlackStone report a more accurate finding if they were at least 2 oil changes in between sending in samples? my thought is the small amount of oil still in the engine at oil change will mix with the fresh oil and the sample will be contaminated with the previous oil if not flushed out entirely? i too use BlackStone periodically for oil analysis for my Cummins Diesel. thx


Ideally, yes that is true. However I am most interested in the shear stability of these oils, and I do not think that a tiny bit of left over oil will have a huge affect on the results for the rest of the oil. If the little bit of residual oil in the cases causes the oil to fail then the oil was on the very edge of failing anyways. I will be changing my oil filter every time to try to get as much of the old oil out as I can.

  • stroker101

Posted August 28, 2012 - 05:23 AM

#46

Ideally, yes that is true. However I am most interested in the shear stability of these oils, and I do not think that a tiny bit of left over oil will have a huge affect on the results for the rest of the oil. If the little bit of residual oil in the cases causes the oil to fail then the oil was on the very edge of failing anyways. I will be changing my oil filter every time to try to get as much of the old oil out as I can.


i see. thanks for the explanation. have you received any data from Blackstone on your samples? i'm currently using Rotella-T 15w-40 and hoping that this oil is in fact ok to run in our gearboxes.
thx again

  • grayracer513

Posted August 28, 2012 - 06:39 AM

#47

There may be something to the leftover oil issue. Consider that the total capacity of the system is 1.2L, and an oil change with a filter service only replaces 1.0L. That means that a bit over 16% of the original oil stays in the system during a normal change.

I know that if the engine is cold started once without being brought up to operating temperature for 15 minutes at least, the fuel dumped in the oil by the startup will affect the viscosity readings quite measurably. It would depend on the condition of the previous oil, but 16% could be influential to the results of a successive test if the previous oil were a long way off target. What do you think, KJ?

  • KJ790

Posted August 28, 2012 - 08:00 AM

#48

There may be something to the leftover oil issue. Consider that the total capacity of the system is 1.2L, and an oil change with a filter service only replaces 1.0L. That means that a bit over 16% of the original oil stays in the system during a normal change.

I know that if the engine is cold started once without being brought up to operating temperature for 15 minutes at least, the fuel dumped in the oil by the startup will affect the viscosity readings quite measurably. It would depend on the condition of the previous oil, but 16% could be influential to the results of a successive test if the previous oil were a long way off target. What do you think, KJ?


That's true, but I always put in 1.1L with an oil and filter change, which would bring that percentage down slightly. Your point is still valid though. The one reason I am not concerned is that I will not put any more than 2 hours on any of the oils, so I really don't think that any of them could fail so badly that they would throw off the test that much. I could be wrong though. I would love to be able to run each oil a few times through to make sure that any other oil is flushed out, but if that were the case this test would never be finished. I only put about 10 hours on each of my YZF's that I race, and I don't plan on keeping this practice bike very long, as I much prefer the two stroke as a practice bike. I am going to sell the bike I am going to use for this test at the end of the season, which is only about 10-12 hours of practicing realistically.

  • grayracer513

Posted August 28, 2012 - 08:20 AM

#49

...I really don't think that any of them could fail so badly that they would throw off the test that much....


One would certainly hope not. Let us know. If the newest version of Rotella holds up well, it would be valuable to know that, although if it stays in grade for two hours, the next question I automatically jump to is, "what about 4?" Eventually, though, that just gets silly.

  • KJ790

Posted August 28, 2012 - 04:20 PM

#50

You guys may get your wish with the oil flushing. My first sample that I took was Rotella T, and it was from my second time running it through that bike, so it shouldn't be too contaminated. I filled it back up with Yamalube and after an hour I cracked an oil line and had to stop. I dumped that oil since I couldn't tell how much I had lost (luckily I hadn't lost much), and then refilled it with Yamalube again. So after 2 hours of riding I will get a sample of that.

Edited by KJ790, August 28, 2012 - 04:26 PM.


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  • Chickenhauler

Posted August 28, 2012 - 07:51 PM

#51

If you're doing your Rotella tests back to back, and the residual oil were to impact the data any, you should see the numbers that are impacted vary from test one to test two.

I think?


One would certainly hope not. Let us know. If the newest version of Rotella holds up well, it would be valuable to know that, although if it stays in grade for two hours, the next question I automatically jump to is, "what about 4?" Eventually, though, that just gets silly.


Something to think about, as oils are getting better and better-in the trucking industry, extended drain intervals are becoming the norm, even without adding bypass filters. Many guys are going the route of regular interval sampling and filter change, and leave the oil as long as it's in spec. Heard of some guys getting close to 100,000 miles before pulling the drain plug.

I think that's nuts, but it's their motor....

  • grayracer513

Posted August 28, 2012 - 08:36 PM

#52

It makes a difference that the oil capacity of those trucks is measured in gallons rather than fractional quarts or milliliters, too. :thumbsup: The big outfits that have the technology at hand to stay on top of the oil condition to that extent can get away with that kind of thing.

  • Chickenhauler

Posted August 29, 2012 - 05:13 AM

#53

It makes a difference that the oil capacity of those trucks is measured in gallons rather than fractional quarts or milliliters, too. :thumbsup: The big outfits that have the technology at hand to stay on top of the oil condition to that extent can get away with that kind of thing.


Yes, it is measured in gallons. But we're talking a YEAR of engine use vs a few hours on a quart.

  • stroker101

Posted August 29, 2012 - 05:34 AM

#54

1qt vs 3 or more gallons. different load and engine applications? I guess the best way to get to a accurate result with Rotella T6 being suitable for our tranny's, would be to use it "only" for the entire test period. ( not just once or twice, but for several analysis )


Blackstone's finding's resulted in a recommended 6K mile oil (Rotella T 15w-40) change on my last sample sent in. They reported that engine is operating normal with all variables within or below specs (metals,coolant, fuel,etc). May be able to go longer between oil changes on my 5.9L CTD.

But agian, this is not a High RPM dirt scooter and the oil discussed is Rotella T6

  • grayracer513

Posted August 29, 2012 - 05:52 AM

#55

The

Blackstone's finding's resulted in a recommended 6K mile oil ...change ... on my 5.9L CTD.

But again, this is not a High RPM dirt scooter ...


The big thing is that there's no transmission involved. Diesel engines are what that oil was made for, and they did a good job on it.

  • Gunner354

Posted August 29, 2012 - 08:33 AM

#56

This thread has got me thinking. I decided that it would be worth it for my own knowledge to send some samples out to Blackstone labs and see what happens. I prepaid for 6 oil samples (I'm not made of money after all...). I normally run Maxima oil in my bikes, but I'm a firm believer in Rotella T for pretty much everything else. I just ran some Rotella T in my practice bike (YZ250F) for 2 hours and took the first sample when I changed my oil yesterday. I filled the bike up with some Yamalube for the next sample. After that I will run Rotella T6 for 2 hours for a sample, then the Maxima that I typically run for 2 hours. I will probably throw another oil in the mix since I will have some sample kits left over. I am curious to see how all of these oils compare in the same bike under the same riding conditions for the same length of time. It is going to take me a few weeks to get there, but I will post my results.

I think you should add Redline to your test. I would bet it will outperform any of the ones you listed. Someone did virgin tests with a bunch of diesel oils and they couldn't believe the additive package numbers. Pretty hard to beat with the use of a group V oil and more additives than any other oil. The motorcycle oil is no different.

  • KJ790

Posted August 29, 2012 - 08:44 AM

#57

I think you should add Redline to your test. I would bet it will outperform any of the ones you listed. Someone did virgin tests with a bunch of diesel oils and they couldn't believe the additive package numbers. Pretty hard to beat with the use of a group V oil and more additives than any other oil. The motorcycle oil is no different.


The only problem is that the redline is over $11 per quart. That's my issue with Amsoil as well, I know it is good oil, but I am going to change it often regardless of how long I could theoretically run it. By the time I flushed my engine with redline and then ran the stuff for a sample it would cost me quite a bit of money.

  • MTYZ450fMT

Posted August 30, 2012 - 05:36 AM

#58

The only problem is that the redline is over $11 per quart. That's my issue with Amsoil as well, I know it is good oil, but I am going to change it often regardless of how long I could theoretically run it. By the time I flushed my engine with redline and then ran the stuff for a sample it would cost me quite a bit of money.

Not to mention this is a Rotella test,not a redline test...cant wait to see your results!

  • Chickenhauler

Posted August 30, 2012 - 06:42 PM

#59

The The big thing is that there's no transmission involved. Diesel engines are what that oil was made for, and they did a good job on it.


I'm not up on the formulation difference between T multi-viscosity and T straight grade, but if they are similar, and T isn't up to the stresses exerted by gears, why is T straight grade the OEM lube for Eaton Fuller Road Ranger, Meritor and Spicer transmissions?

http://www-static.sh...75_s_001608.pdf

Edited by Chickenhauler, August 30, 2012 - 06:44 PM.


  • grayracer513

Posted August 31, 2012 - 06:55 AM

#60

Because straight grade oils don't need or use viscosity index improvers to keep them from thinning back toward their base stock grade. Remember, from reading the explanation I linked, that multi grade oils start at their lighter listed weights (say 5wt), and the VII additives are what allows the thinner oil to resist thinning with heat so much that it's as thick as the heavier listed grade (say 40) when measured at 200 ℉. When the additives get beat up, the oil thins out with heat in a more normal manner. A straight 40 is just a 40, and so there is no need for an additive to make it act like one when it's hot, and that in turn means there's no additive to fail in a gearbox and cause that to happen.

Straight grades are an almost guaranteed work-around for that particular problem, although then you have warmup concerns and such. It's also hard to find high quality synthetics in straight grades.





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