Rotella t6 in an 08 YZ450f?



95 replies to this topic
  • KJ790

Posted August 25, 2012 - 07:09 AM

#21

This thread has got me thinking. I decided that it would be worth it for my own knowledge to send some samples out to Blackstone labs and see what happens. I prepaid for 6 oil samples (I'm not made of money after all...). I normally run Maxima oil in my bikes, but I'm a firm believer in Rotella T for pretty much everything else. I just ran some Rotella T in my practice bike (YZ250F) for 2 hours and took the first sample when I changed my oil yesterday. I filled the bike up with some Yamalube for the next sample. After that I will run Rotella T6 for 2 hours for a sample, then the Maxima that I typically run for 2 hours. I will probably throw another oil in the mix since I will have some sample kits left over. I am curious to see how all of these oils compare in the same bike under the same riding conditions for the same length of time. It is going to take me a few weeks to get there, but I will post my results.

  • KJ790

Posted August 25, 2012 - 07:12 AM

#22

The point he is trying to make is it will break down quickly ie during a 2:30 long race that is a bad choice. I will stick with my Amsoill and my piece of mind. You guys that run Rotella do realize you aren't even running an oil designed for motorcycle use in a motorcycle right?


Many "motorcycle oils" were not formulated for motorcycles. They just happened to pass the tests related to motorcycles and then were repackaged in a bottle with a motorcycle on the front. Granted there are some oils that have extra additives specifically for motorcycles, this is not true of every oil that comes in a bottle with a motorcycle picture on it.

  • Chickenhauler

Posted August 25, 2012 - 07:24 AM

#23

This thread has got me thinking. I decided that it would be worth it for my own knowledge to send some samples out to Blackstone labs and see what happens. I prepaid for 6 oil samples (I'm not made of money after all...). I normally run Maxima oil in my bikes, but I'm a firm believer in Rotella T for pretty much everything else. I just ran some Rotella T in my practice bike (YZ250F) for 2 hours and took the first sample when I changed my oil yesterday. I filled the bike up with some Yamalube for the next sample. After that I will run Rotella T6 for 2 hours for a sample, then the Maxima that I typically run for 2 hours. I will probably throw another oil in the mix since I will have some sample kits left over. I am curious to see how all of these oils compare in the same bike under the same riding conditions for the same length of time. It is going to take me a few weeks to get there, but I will post my results.


That's only like 12 hours of engine time, what's the hold up? :ride:

Now you have a valid reason to ride..."It's for a scientific study" :thumbsup:

Edited by Chickenhauler, August 25, 2012 - 07:25 AM.


  • KJ790

Posted August 25, 2012 - 07:40 AM

#24

That's only like 12 hours of engine time, what's the hold up? :ride:

Now you have a valid reason to ride..."It's for a scientific study" :thumbsup:


Haha the most fun research I've ever done! The problem is that my weekends are taken up with racing (on my other 250F and my 450), and there are limited places to ride during the week. I only get to ride once mid-week, twice if I'm lucky. By the time I get out of work my riding time is limited before it gets dark out. The situation gets compounded by the fact that I also have a 125 two stroke that is just too much fun to leave home all the time :ride: But alas, I suppose I will have to sideline the 125 for the sake of science :lol:

  • shrubitup

Posted August 25, 2012 - 07:46 AM

#25

Haha the most fun research I've ever done! The problem is that my weekends are taken up with racing (on my other 250F and my 450), and there are limited places to ride during the week. I only get to ride once mid-week, twice if I'm lucky. By the time I get out of work my riding time is limited before it gets dark out. The situation gets compounded by the fact that I also have a 125 two stroke that is just too much fun to leave home all the time :ride: But alas, I suppose I will have to sideline the 125 for the sake of science :lol:


The sacrifices we all make for the advancement of lubrication science. :banana:

Not to hate on Rotella but Yamalube is only $5 more per gallon. If it last nearly double the change interval then its overall cost is less.

http://www.rockymoun...ke-Oil/YAMALUBE

  • Chickenhauler

Posted August 25, 2012 - 08:11 AM

#26

The sacrifices we all make for the advancement of lubrication science. :banana:

Not to hate on Rotella but Yamalube is only $5 more per gallon. If it last nearly double the change interval then its overall cost is less.

http://www.rockymoun...ke-Oil/YAMALUBE


This was years ago, and I can't find the data right now, so take this for what it's worth (peanuts).

I read a study of UOA's and actual lab tests. Yamalube was the WORST oil in the bunch (and it was a very large, very long list of oils from across the price spectrum). Ranked slightly better than vegetable oil.

Now, that's not saying the test wasn't biased, or that the oil hasn't changed formulation since then, but that's what I read.

  • grayracer513

Posted August 25, 2012 - 10:14 AM

#27

The Yamalube synthetic and syn blends at least have been improved within the last 5 years, and are actually coming from a different vendor than previously. I have heard some rumors about Rotella addressing the issue, too, but to date I've seen no proof of it. Doesn't mean it isn't true.

Do you realize it passed the same JASO standards as an oil designed for motorcycle use (whatever that is, besides a pic of a bike on the bottle)?

On that note, anyone have any proof of an engine failure that can be traced back to Rotella not protecting the components?


When you have a bag of shrapnel on the garage floor where the engine used to be, it can be a little difficult to pin down exactly where the failure initiated, as most are aware. There have certainly been any number of lubrication failures in YZF's, most notably cam seizures. Inadequate viscosity also leads to premature spalling failures of ball bearings and gear faces.

Too frequently, the statement that an oil "meets or exceeds" JASO MA only means that it's clutch friendly under JASO T90, and overlooks the portion of MA/MA2 that addresses boundary lubrication and shear stability. JASO "certified" is different.

The simple fact is that, the last time I looked into this, Rotella would not remain in its listed viscosity range longer than 2 hours time when used as a transmission lube because it isn't blended for the purpose. Why? It isn't intended for that use, and it's too expensive to build in the more costly kind of viscosity improvers that are used in multigrade trans lubes when such stuff is only applicable to 1% or less of the projected market. Anyone is free to believe anything they like, but you can't argue with the evidence of a two hour old used oil sample that shows the oil at 30wt at 200℉ instead of 40. It's a tribute to both the oil and the engine that more failures don't occur while running thinned out oil at high temperatures, frankly.

It's a really very good engine oil except for that fact, and if you don't ride for two hours run time on the stuff, and you're willing to change it out in less time than that, you'll be OK. With bikes like the CRF's where the engine oil is separated from the gear box, it would be fine, too. Of course, it's great in your truck; that's what it's made for.

Run whatever you want for whatever reason you want, it makes no difference to me. I also don't care who "wins" the discussion. The facts are what they are, and you have my opinion on the matter based on those facts.

  • marv02

Posted August 25, 2012 - 10:36 AM

#28

Oil is each there own I ran Rotella In my KTM like I said before I end up swicthing bach to Maxima.

I use to run nothing but Belray for a very long time years but where I am they dont carry it.

I swicthed to Maxima when I had my 2 strokes bikes love the Smell of there 927 mix with race gas thats when I started to use there gear box oil also and notices how much better the bike shifted.

But all I use is Belray superclean chain lube nothing else for me comes close to it.

I like AMS oil but once again It harder to get at the last minute oil change if you dont have some already.

I was using AMS oil back in the day we use to mix it at 100 to 1 back in the late 70's.

There alot good or great oils out there what every makes you happy.

I tryed other brands of oil also I never use again either so each there own.

Like some told me as a joke long time a go you can think and do what every you want but when it comes down to it I am right and everyone else is wrong LOL :lol: .

Run what you want but if something go's wrong let other know what not to do help a each other out so they dont do what your going though or been though.

Yes if the oil is cheeper to buy it can cost you less each oil changes but if the other brand cost more but you change it half as much what the better deal in the end. :rolleyes:

Edited by marv02, August 25, 2012 - 10:43 AM.


  • Chickenhauler

Posted August 25, 2012 - 10:53 AM

#29

The Yamalube synthetic and syn blends at least have been improved within the last 5 years, and are actually coming from a different vendor than previously. I have heard some rumors about Rotella addressing the issue, too, but to date I've seen no proof of it. Doesn't mean it isn't true.



When you have a bag of shrapnel on the garage floor where the engine used to be, it can be a little difficult to pin down exactly where the failure initiated, as most are aware. There have certainly been any number of lubrication failures in YZF's, most notably cam seizures. Inadequate viscosity also leads to premature spalling failures of ball bearings and gear faces.

Too frequently, the statement that an oil "meets or exceeds" JASO MA only means that it's clutch friendly under JASO T90, and overlooks the portion of MA/MA2 that addresses boundary lubrication and shear stability. JASO "certified" is different.

The simple fact is that, the last time I looked into this, Rotella would not remain in its listed viscosity range longer than 2 hours time when used as a transmission lube because it isn't blended for the purpose. Why? It isn't intended for that use, and it's too expensive to build in the more costly kind of viscosity improvers that are used in multigrade trans lubes when such stuff is only applicable to 1% or less of the projected market. Anyone is free to believe anything they like, but you can't argue with the evidence of a two hour old used oil sample that shows the oil at 30wt at 200℉ instead of 40. It's a tribute to both the oil and the engine that more failures don't occur while running thinned out oil at high temperatures, frankly.

It's a really very good engine oil except for that fact, and if you don't ride for two hours run time on the stuff, and you're willing to change it out in less time than that, you'll be OK. With bikes like the CRF's where the engine oil is separated from the gear box, it would be fine, too. Of course, it's great in your truck; that's what it's made for.

Run whatever you want for whatever reason you want, it makes no difference to me. I also don't care who "wins" the discussion. The facts are what they are, and you have my opinion on the matter based on those facts.


What causes the grade breakdown? Heat?

  • grayracer513

Posted August 25, 2012 - 11:11 AM

#30

What causes the grade breakdown? Heat?


Has to do with how multigrade oils are produced from straight grade stock.

http://www.thumperta...ost__p__7947523

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  • antfizzle

Posted August 25, 2012 - 01:24 PM

#31

Since this is primarily a rotella thread, can someone explain the benefits of rotella T-6 compared to the rotella T-5, thanks, I've always used just plain rotella, but recently heard that the T-6 would be a better choice, went to pick up a gallon of T-6 and seen they offer a T-5 also, geeeeez too many "T" options, lol

  • ss55539

Posted August 25, 2012 - 01:36 PM

#32

t5 is a syn blend while t6 is full syn

  • Gunner354

Posted August 26, 2012 - 05:56 AM

#33

t5 is a syn blend while t6 is full syn

Is it even a true synthetic or a highly refined group III oil?

  • antfizzle

Posted August 26, 2012 - 06:07 PM

#34

Rotella is safe for the clutch, but if you're going to run it, change it every ride day. The transmission beats it down a full grade to something like 30 wt instead of 40 in 2 hours or less.

Even with a good transmission-durable synthetic such as Amsoil MCF or Mobil1 Racing 4T, there's only just over a quart of oil involved, and you really shouldn't figure on the oil lasting beyond 10 hours or so, anyway. At that point, contamination will become problematic, and even the good stuff starts to get beat up.

Rotella's OK if you don't mind the extra work and aren't planning a 4 day trip or something.

as of now I've been using rotella, and changing the oil and filter after every ride/race, rides could last up to 4 or 5 hours, and the races,being hare scrambles are 2 hours long, I am concerned about the rotella breaking down, I am going to switch oils, should I use Amsoil or the Mobil oil, thanks gray

  • grayracer513

Posted August 27, 2012 - 06:38 AM

#35

If you use Amsoil, be certain to use either "Synthetic Motorcycle Oil" MCF (10w-40) or MCV (20w-50). These two oils are actually labeled for API gear lube service GL-1. Other Amsoil products are not formulated as engine/gear lubes, and may not retain their viscosity when used in a transmission. Likewise Mobil1 products. Use either the "Racing 4T" 10w-40 motorcycle oil, or "V-Twin" 20w-50.

These are not the only oils I know of for sure that have a demonstrated ability to retain their viscosity, but they are the overall 2 best products I have found, and they are what I use.

Other oils that I've seen positive lab reports on with regard to the shear/viscosity tests are:
Maxima (Synthetics and synthetic blends)
Golden Spectro (Synthetics and synthetic blends)
Motul 300V (all variations) & 7100 (Ester)
Castrol RS4
Bel Ray EXS
Torco Series V SS & T-4SR

Their may be others that will also stay in grade well, but I don't have any concrete information on them to be able to say so. I do know that their are a lot of so-called JASO motorcycle oils that won't, although that's been gradually improving over the last 6-8 years. A used oil sample is ultimately definitive.

  • cereal killer

Posted August 27, 2012 - 06:47 AM

#36

Since it isn't a good idea to use Rotella, is there a good option for those of us who do change the oil every ride?

My rides are typically 3-5hrs in length, and I change the oil and clean the filter after each one. From what I'm reading here, Rotella won't stay in grade long enough for me to use for even one ride. Since I change the oil every time though, it seems like a bit of a waste to pay for the top-grade stuff.

Here's the price breakdown for 1L if I buy them locally:
- Amsoil is $19.99 (synthetic motorcycle oil)
- Mobil 1 is $17.99 (racing 4t)
- Motul is $15.99 (5100)
- Castrol is $9.99
- Yamalube (non-syn) is $9.99
- the "house brand" motorcycle oil (Motomaster formula 1) is $5.69

So what would you choose if the plan was to change the oil after every ride? Or should I switch to every second ride and just run the most expensive? If I happen to line up two 5hr rides back-to-back, is that even safe?



Well, I think I just figured out what I'll do! Went to the amsoil.com website and I can buy 12 x 946 milliliters for $142.76 shipped to my door with a 6 month trial of the "preferred customer program". That's $11.90 per bottle, which makes the other brands pretty much a moot point. Have to buy 12 at once to make it work though... but it probably won't take me that long to go through it.

Edited by cereal killer, August 27, 2012 - 07:26 AM.


  • Mick17

Posted August 27, 2012 - 07:37 AM

#37

If you pay the 20 bucks to become a "prefered customer" and buy a case of mcv it is less than 9 bucks a quart

  • cereal killer

Posted August 27, 2012 - 07:47 AM

#38

I think we're doing pretty much the same calculation. I was figuring the price of the preferred program divided by the number of bottles (12) as part of the $11.90 per bottle.

Preferred program is $15/6 months or $30 for a year.

  • grayracer513

Posted August 27, 2012 - 08:27 AM

#39

If you pay the 20 bucks to become a "prefered customer" and buy a case of mcv it is less than 9 bucks a quart


Remember that the prices CK listed are Canadian. $20 plus the freight (about $8 in my case) adds $2.33 to each quart. Less, of course, if you buy more than one case per year. Since I can often buy M1 R4T for $9-10/quart, I've started doing that more often now. On the other hand, Amsoil offers Preferred Customers really good deals on NGK plugs and Twin Air filters, too.

  • shrubitup

Posted August 27, 2012 - 09:18 AM

#40

Since it isn't a good idea to use Rotella, is there a good option for those of us who do change the oil every ride? My rides are typically 3-5hrs in length, and I change the oil and clean the filter after each one. From what I'm reading here, Rotella won't stay in grade long enough for me to use for even one ride. Since I change the oil every time though, it seems like a bit of a waste to pay for the top-grade stuff. Here's the price breakdown for 1L if I buy them locally: - Amsoil is $19.99 (synthetic motorcycle oil) - Mobil 1 is $17.99 (racing 4t) - Motul is $15.99 (5100) - Castrol is $9.99 - Yamalube (non-syn) is $9.99 - the "house brand" motorcycle oil (Motomaster formula 1) is $5.69 So what would you choose if the plan was to change the oil after every ride? Or should I switch to every second ride and just run the most expensive? If I happen to line up two 5hr rides back-to-back, is that even safe? Well, I think I just figured out what I'll do! Went to the amsoil.com website and I can buy 12 x 946 milliliters for $142.76 shipped to my door with a 6 month trial of the "preferred customer program". That's $11.90 per bottle, which makes the other brands pretty much a moot point. Have to buy 12 at once to make it work though... but it probably won't take me that long to go through it.


If you buy Yamalube by the gallon from Rocky Mountain the price is $4.25 per quart. That's only $17 per gallon. Free shipping if you buy six of them.





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