Jump to content

  • Follow us:

  • Facebook
  • YouTube
  • Twitter
  • Google+
  • Instagram
  • RSS Feed
  • Google+





Related Reviews

Yamaha WR450F 2012


Last review by Ptch5636
* * * * -


Related Garage

DSC01917.JPG

Yamaha WR450F (2012)


Owner: 51fiftey
Added on September 16, 2016
Photo
* * * * * 1 votes

2012 WR450 Starting woes

Yamaha WR450F 2012


502 replies to this topic
  • BoiseBee

    TT Bronze Member

177 posts
Location: Idaho
Garage View Garage

Posted March 12, 2013 - 11:18 AM


You have to make sure the filters pre and post fuel pump are spotless, then use the mapping too to change the af ratios to a more reasonable level.


Are you talking changing the mapping from the GYT-R programmer, or the Yamaha shop programmer? Because the GYT-R programmer only allows adjustments from 4000 to 9000 rpm, which won't help starting at all.

If you're talking adjustments from the shop programmer, please elaborate on some specifics... I'm sure several on here will appreciate it. I already had the local dealer use the shop programmer for dropping the fuel mixture by 2%, which immediately made the bike re-starts better. The main issue is cold starting.

  • Krannie McKranface
36,639 posts
Location: California
Garage View Garage

Posted March 12, 2013 - 04:44 PM


I'm talking about the competition ECU and GYT-R tuner kit, including the exhaust, and cams.
I've helped with (2) WR un-corking and re-mapping, and they start just fine.
You have to pull the enricher knob (idle knob) when it's cold.

  • 270winchester

    TT Member

60 posts
Location: Texas

Posted March 12, 2013 - 04:59 PM


Mine starts fine hot or cold (even if the bike sits a couple of weeks). Usually 1st push of the button. If it does not, barely, and I mean barely, crack the throttle, and it starts. Make sure the bike is idling in spec. These bikes idle fast, and if the idle is set too low, it will not start.

Mine is uncorked (comp ECU, snorkel, screw, performance insert).

  • BoiseBee

    TT Bronze Member

177 posts
Location: Idaho
Garage View Garage

Posted March 12, 2013 - 07:59 PM


Mine is uncorked with all the goodies too... and starts every time when warm with a slight blip of the throttle. It will never start cold. Ever. I have had it at the Yamaha shop to fix the issue and it hasn't changed a bit. They must not have a grasp on the mapping, idle speed, etc. on the new FI bike yet...

  • schizz

    TT Newbie

5 posts
Location: Italy

Posted March 13, 2013 - 02:49 AM


In Europe the WR450F is not limited as in the U.S.A, ours are open and there is no green dot.
The problem is, however, the toll on ..... the bike will not start it in hot or cold, the defect occurs during off-road use.

Schizz

  • cwallershasta

    TT Bronze Member

177 posts
Location: Utah

Posted March 13, 2013 - 01:17 PM


Is this discussion on weather the e start should work when the bike is cold? Because it won't and I never assumed it would. But, works great when it's warm. 0-40 yamalube in the winter, starts second kick every time. I feel like I was back to the learning curve on how to start my 02 426 with this WR. But figured it out, now if it doesn't start it's something I didn't do right.

  • BoiseBee

    TT Bronze Member

177 posts
Location: Idaho
Garage View Garage

Posted March 13, 2013 - 01:40 PM


Is this discussion on weather the e start should work when the bike is cold? Because it won't and I never assumed it would. But, works great when it's warm. 0-40 yamalube in the winter, starts second kick every time. I feel like I was back to the learning curve on how to start my 02 426 with this WR. But figured it out, now if it doesn't start it's something I didn't do right.


Exactly. Starts perfect when cold with the kick starter, but never with the button. My scenario is just like yours.

  • tomerb

    TT Bronze Member

382 posts
Location: Arizona

Posted March 13, 2013 - 04:02 PM


Mine starts fine hot or cold (even if the bike sits a couple of weeks). Usually 1st push of the button. If it does not, barely, and I mean barely, crack the throttle, and it starts. Make sure the bike is idling in spec. These bikes idle fast, and if the idle is set too low, it will not start.

Mine is uncorked (comp ECU, snorkel, screw, performance insert).


Mine is the same as yours and started every time with the electric starter, mine was uncorked with comp ECU, snorkel removed and never once did I use the kick starter.

  • ONARAYLE

    TT Newbie

4 posts
Location: Missouri

Posted March 17, 2013 - 05:01 AM


Does anyone have this issue with the stock ecu and stock program?

  • Etrask

    TT Newbie

3 posts
Location: Colorado

Posted March 22, 2013 - 11:19 AM


My friend just picked up a new 2012 model two days ago. He purchased it with the GYTR/FMF pipe already installed on it and the throttle stop removed, but no other mods made. The first day he had it, we rode it for a few minutes around the house. At that point, the bike would start with the electric starter (under protest). Then it would only kick start. Eventually, it would not start at all. The best we could get out of it at that point were flames from the exhaust, and a lot of gas odor.

He took it back the next day, and the dealer said that the bike needed to be broken in for it to start correctly. They said that they forgot to attach an air hose and fixed that, but would not look at it any further until it had at least 12 hours on it. He brought it back home with no real solutions. I pulled the baffles out of the air box as I assumed too much gas had too little air (we live at 8,500 feet so there is even less here) with the aftermarket exhaust. That worked pretty well as far as kick starting goes. It will start on the first or second kick most of the time now, but we could never get the bike to start with the button. Once running, it seemed pretty strong (shifts like a model T though) with no huccups or real backfiring issues, so that does not seem to be a real issue. The only problem at this point seems to be getting it to start with the e-start.

He is taking the bike to Moab this weekend, and should have enough hours on it to take it back to the dealer when he returns. I dont know that the GYTR ECU would make the bike start any better if it cannot be adjusted below 4,000 RPM. From what I see on here, it sounds like trying to get the dealer to adjust the idle circuit is the best option at this point. I dont know about the break in deal since it will start easily with the kick starter. This seems to be some type of fuel mixture/delivery issue.

I picked up my first injected bike last spring (Husky TXC310 - quirky to service, but lots of fun to ride!), and it started with no issues from day one. It seems like Yamaha should have addressed this issue before they put the bikes on the showroom, or at least do a recall on them to correct the problem.

I'll post back here with an update after puts some time on it and takes it back to the dealer.

  • Krannie McKranface
36,639 posts
Location: California
Garage View Garage

Posted March 22, 2013 - 12:04 PM


The GYTR ECU DOES change the entire map, both fuel and ignition.....but the TUNER does not affect the new ECU below 4000rpm.

Without the GYTR ECU, it will NEVER RUN CORRECTLY.

The stock ECU has a clock in it. Until it sees 5 hours, it WILL NOT RUN OR START CORRECTLY because the ignition is retarded -4 until it passes 5 hours. This is SOP on all FI bikes now, so new owners won't seize the motor in the first few hours of riding.......

On the first batch of KTM EXC's, the clock was 10 hours, and it drove everyone nuts.....

Remember, when you start the bike, let it warm up to get to full temp, for a few minutes.......and then.....

Then kill the motor for 3 min, restart the bike WITHOUT ANY THROTTLE OR THROTTLE BLIPS, and let it idle for at least one minute.

Kill the motor, and then re-start and ride as desired.


This will allow the ECU to re-map to the info from the Mass Air Pressure and Temp sensors, correcting the F/I and Ignition map for your riding area.

The ECU mapping CANNOT / WILL NOT CHANGE WHILE YOU ARE RIDING.

So if you go up in attitude you have to repeat the last two steps, if you notice the bike running rich or lean.

Edited by Krannie, March 22, 2013 - 12:11 PM.


  • BoiseBee

    TT Bronze Member

177 posts
Location: Idaho
Garage View Garage

Posted March 22, 2013 - 12:46 PM


The GYTR ECU DOES change the entire map, both fuel and ignition.....but the TUNER does not affect the new ECU below 4000rpm.

Without the GYTR ECU, it will NEVER RUN CORRECTLY.


Thanks for all of the input Krannie.
So, to be clear... the GYTR ECU (which I have) will change the entire map, but the GYTR programmer (which I also own) will not allow me to adjust the idle because it has no settings below 4000 RPM.... Right? So the dealer HAS to make the changes if my bike doesn't start.

  • Etrask

    TT Newbie

3 posts
Location: Colorado

Posted March 22, 2013 - 12:50 PM


Krannie, Thanks for the information. I was not at the dealership when he got the bike, and I think they must have tried to explain that to him there, but he wasnt sure about what they we'r saying.

Question: It sounds like getting the GYTR ECU is the way to go on this. Do you need to do the same routine with the start/warm up/restart with the GYTR ECU as well? I'm just a bit confused on this as I am new to FI and my Husky didnt seem to require that routine.

Thanks for the info!

  • Krannie McKranface
36,639 posts
Location: California
Garage View Garage

Posted March 22, 2013 - 01:24 PM


I contacted Kehien (and KTM) when I was having trouble with my 2012 KTM 500 XC-W, with excessive leanness and terrible throttle linearity.

They gave me a wealth of information, which took a few months to get clarified and distilled down to some usable information.

I have since learned that the ECU used on one version of the Kehien Throttle Body (the one used on KTM MX, the new WR, and the new 2011/12 CRF450R) is the same on all bikes, electronically. Just the mapping and physical shape are different, and some are LOCKED OUT, like the WR, the EXC's and the TE Husky's. You have to 'unlock' them, or replace them with a 'competition' version, like on the WR, if you want the bike to start, idle, go fast, not stall, and not over heat. Minor, issues, eh?

The 'map adjust' feature on the ECU is on all ECU's, but is not necessarily 'active' on all ECU's (Honda CRF450R for example).

It is there to allow 'instant jetting adjustment' by the rider (but only =/- 10% maximum).

You have to do it with a warm motor; one minute of staring and idling with NO throttle, shut off, and then re start and go.

It will also adjust the igniton mapping, but only =/- 1 or 2%, I am told.

Some of the information I gathered from KTM and Kehien was extremely conflicting, even within the same company, so it got very frustrating trying to 'nail down' the exact issues, solutions, and methods.

If the FI system were a closed-loop type system, it would also adjust for more severe issues (clogged injector, extremely high humidity) and do it on the fly, but we don't have that level of sophistication on off-road bikes yet.

Oh, and what happened to the KTM? Well, three over-heated throttle bodies later, I sold it.
The 2012 models have TONS of TB problems, especially the 500, which ran too hot to solve the problems permanently......

... POS.....

Edited by Krannie, March 22, 2013 - 01:28 PM.


  • Etrask

    TT Newbie

3 posts
Location: Colorado

Posted March 22, 2013 - 01:59 PM


Thanks again, Krannie! Looks like my buddy is gonna have to invest a few more bucks on a new ECU, but from the preliminary time on the bike, it appears that it should be a good machine for him. When it comes to Yamaha's, I have only owned a YZ250F ('03 model), but did ride an older WR426 belonging to a friend. This new WR has a much lighter and responsive feel to the chassis. The motor seemed pretty good, but it should be even better with the new ECU. The suspension seems really plush - not necessarily good for really fast riding - but it should suit my friend very well. Just need to get the bugs worked out.

  • JDLowrance

    TT Silver Member

594 posts
Location: California

Posted March 22, 2013 - 05:57 PM


$99 buck for the comp ECU will be the best money....other than getting the suspension sorted for ones weight and riding ability....you can spen on this bike.

I use the kick starter when cold in the morning then use the button for the rest of the day Fires right up and rips with the full FMF system.

Just got Simon's intake cam and will be installing it Sunday, will try to ride the following weekend and post impressions.

  • GP1K

    TT Gold Member

1,346 posts
Location: Washington

Posted March 25, 2013 - 09:55 AM


I guess I'm one of the lucky ones. When my bike was brand spanking new and bone stock, it was a bit hard starting, and I ran the battery dead once before learning the one trick... don't keep cranking away on the starter. If it doesn't start after the first few revoluions, it's probably not going to. Let off the the starter for a second, then thumb it again. It would typically start on the 2nd attempt, maybe 3rd. It was better warm, would almost alway start on the first or second try, but I had to be in neutral, it really didn't want to start in gear hot or cold.

Then I got an FMF Q4 pipe, the GYTR ECU and pulled the airbox baffle. Also got the bike out for the first real trail ride. By the end of the day it was starting much better, usually on the first try, and even in gear with the clutch pulled in. I have yet to use the kick starter at all.

So for me, getting the pipe/ECU/airbox sorted was the biggest improvement, and getting a few hours on the bike helped as well. I know there's some folks on here with a lot more hours than me and the same mods that are still having issues. Not sure what to say there. But for those with brand new stock bikes, get it uncorked properly and a few hours on it, and hopefully it improves for you too.

  • Corkster

    TT Bronze Member

239 posts
Location: Australia

Posted March 26, 2013 - 06:39 PM



This will allow the ECU to re-map to the info from the Mass Air Pressure and Temp sensors, correcting the F/I and Ignition map for your riding area.


The "mass air pressure" sensor? really?

  • Krannie McKranface
36,639 posts
Location: California
Garage View Garage

Posted March 27, 2013 - 03:59 PM


The "mass air pressure" sensor? really?


Fine.

M.anifold A.bsolute P.ressure sensor.

  • A X E

    TT Member

39 posts
Location: Arizona

Posted March 27, 2013 - 08:34 PM


I only have about 200 miles on mine............................I know pretty weak stats. Anyway, my hot restarts seem to be getting a little better. I haven't ridden with a lot of elevation change, mostly 1300-2500 msl and temps have been 70-90 degree for the most part with dry air in the desert around Phoenix. I found that if I let the fuel injection system cycle a few seconds and crack the throttle a tad bit it starts pretty readily. I have hardly had to kick mine, but that is why I bought the damn thing, I wanted electric start. I have the performance ecu, throttle stop removed, the peashooter taken out with a PMB exhaust tip, and the ecu remapped with the power tuner. I certainly had more issues with hot starts after a kill on the trail when it was newer.

I think Krannie has shed some light on the issue. From now on, I will take a few extra minutes and run through the steps that Krannie has provided.

I have never had issues with my FI road bikes or my FI SxS, but they both seem to like a pause after the key is turned on before hitting the starter.

Out!

Edited by A X E, March 27, 2013 - 08:37 PM.






Related Content

Forums
Photo

2012 wr450 exhaust? What fits by Fvmcboy99


Dirt Bike   Make / Model Specific   Yamaha   WR 400/426/450
  • 20 replies
Forums
Photo

2016 WR450 Ride Report & Opinions by stevethe


Dirt Bike   Make / Model Specific   Yamaha   WR 400/426/450
  • Hot  226 replies
Forums
Photo

GYTR/FMF Pipe Installation 2012 WR450F by Andrew Puetz


Dirt Bike   Make / Model Specific   Yamaha   WR 400/426/450
  • 2 replies
Forums
Photo

2012 wr450 plastics by Fvmcboy99


Dirt Bike   Make / Model Specific   Yamaha   WR 400/426/450
  • 3 replies
Forums
Photo

2012 wr450 headlight by donkeyballz


Dirt Bike   Make / Model Specific   Yamaha   WR 400/426/450
  • Hot  27 replies

2 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 2 guests, 0 anonymous users

 
x

Join Our Community!

Even if you don't want to post, registered members get access to tools that make finding & following the good stuff easier.

The views and opinions expressed on this page are strictly those of the author, and have not been reviewed or approved by ThumperTalk.