You are quite wrong on your impression of what breaks collarbones most often. An impact on the shoulder aiming the force towards the body is the crash most likely to break a collarbone and requires a small fraction of the amount of force hitting a collarbone directly to break it. Doctors know this. Sadly there is no protective equipment in the motorcycle industry to prevent this impact from breaking the collarbone.

Wow. This again? Seriously?

"what do you use? what one would work with my chest protector?"

That is what the op asked. Not "please go on with more of the crap you always go on with mnkayaker".

Wow. This again? Seriously?

"what do you use? what one would work with my chest protector?"

That is what the op asked. Not "please go on with more of the crap you always go on with mnkayaker".


To answer:
I use a leatt. It was the only one really around when I bought it. I'm not 100% but I think with the thor force you need to remove the shoulder protectors to fit a neck brace. I could be wrong though. Personally I don't like shoulder protectors but if you do I would take your armour into the shop and try it out.

neck braces are prooved to do nothing

im am looking at getting a neck brace and im not sure which one i should go with. i have a thor force chest protector and at the moment i am leaning towards the leatt because my chest protector looks like it would go with it better. the evs r4 looks alright but it doesnt look as good as the astar or the leatt. what do you use? what one would work with my chest protector?

And what do I say in virtually every post I make about neck braces?  It's that Leatt, Alpinstars, Atlas should prove to us that their device is something more than an expensive necklace.  They have not done that.  Phil posted his graph that has some numbers on it and some formulas.  There is no vector analysis on the direction of forces, that's the physics behind the device.  I asked how the graph was derived, and if the pendulum swing was used. That question was ignored, because I am almost certain the pendulum swing was used.  I think we all can agree a pendulum swing into a movable object has very little in the relation to the forces encountered in a head first motorcycle crash.

These devices have been on the market for 6 years now and I feel the public has the right to know that they work beyond a reasonable doubt! We need to know beyond a reasonable doubt that these devices do not significantly increase the rick of collarbone injuries.  Not just blindly believe the emotional marketing ploys that Phil and Leatt have made in these threads.  Everything I propose can be verified in a testing lab, even if it's in Leatt's own lab, video evidence can be given but Leatt refuses to do that.  Don't any of you want to know why?  Don't any of you want to see how Leatt tests these devices?  If I were to see a test that had some kind of similarity to a motorcycle crash, that would silence some of my doubts.

Phil says he is making more 5 more videos lets see if he keeps his word.

I am not sure how I have been responsabile for "the emotional marketing ploys that Phil and Leatt have made in these threads." If you can tell me what exactly I have done that is either a "ploy" or "emotional" I'd gladly take under advisement to change. But I honestly have no clue what you are refering to.

The entire motorcycle industry, and bicycles too for that matter, are so, so very lucky this advise was never taken.

Where we any of us riders be if not for clever, hard working businessmen and doctors did not have the courage vto come out with products before there was some kind of safety standard? Well here is a list of things we'd all be missing
Helmets in general
Full face helmets
Helmets with styrene shock absorbing liners
Helmets with dual density shock absorbing liners
Boots that work better than the tall lace up Linemans I started riding in
Knee braces
Chest protectors
Back protectors
Elbow guards
Shin guards
Riding pants
Riding pants featuring exictic fabrics for safety like scretch Kevlar
Padded crotch under shorts
Gloves that did not come from the gardening section of the hardware store
..and more but I am boring you all.

The fact is that if some sort of safety standard existed BEFORE a product came out I bet the organization would aim too low and not make the standards good enough. Nothing creates better products than private companies trying their best to please their peers (motorcycle racers in Dr. Leatt's case) simply because they want for those others what they themselves would want and put on their own kids.

Certainly, MNkayaker, they will come out for neck braces, and when they do, you'll find find fault with them too.

Skewed info ....  this does not explain the large number of DISTAL fractures that occur ... ironically from users of a certain neck brace.  The force you describe typically always results in a MID fracture (where the collarbone is weakest) and that is the most common alright ... but mid fractures are not common from crashes involving direct force downwards on a neck braces.

The ONLY thing that can usually shatter a DISTAL portion of a collarbone (not crack .. we are talking shatter into pieces while the mid section is still intact) is a DIRECT BLOW to the top of the collarbone.  That is why they are RARE statistically, because collarbone breaks in all walks of life are normal ... normally at the WEAKEST point ... the mid section, NOT the distal portion.

Your using statistics "overall" which distorts the truth (by saying "most often").  Either that or thousands of users who have shattered their collarbones in the distal regions are "coincidently" also wearing a neck brace.  Simple internet search on rider testimonials in MTB and Moto clearly shows this trend.

ALL the neck braces transfer energy to the shoulder region upon helmet contact in a crash ..all of them ..... some CONCENTRATE this force in a very small area, while others distribute it over a larger surface area.   I'll choose the models that DISTRIBUTE it over a large surface area any day.

SECONDLY, you claim the Leatt has the most "space" over the collarbone ... yes .... over the MID portion, BUT sits directly on the distal portion adjoining to the acromion.  The marketing pictures you use show the clearance over the mid portion.   The brace sits on the distal end of the collar bone .. that is a fact.   Want to keep going with this ??

This post sure does sound like emotional marketing to me.

I respectfully, but completely, disagree. The above is niether emotional nor marketing. I will, however, completely agree with you that emotional marketing has no place here nor in print advertising.

One major flaw with this line of thought is that you can easily use it for any safety device, no matter how absurd it may be. You can't piggyback on all the hard work that other have done to prove their equipment, as proof of the value in your own product. I don't believe you're out here to do that, or fool anyone into thinking that, I'm just pointing out a minor flaw in how you're using that info.

My personal feeling is that I want my neck to flex instead of break, and limiting flex often increases the chance of a break. I can't say if that's neck braces operate specifically, but those are the general rules in the engineering world. One good example is Jeremy Lusk's crash, his neck bends incredibly far, yet there was no spinal damage. I know, there's a million samples to support both sides.

Two problems with your presence on this subject: One was your unprofessional comment at the end of post #28. The second is that, no matter what, nobody can fully trust that your position on the matter is unbiased. Unfortunately, that's just the nature of anything sales related.

I do also agree with  you that nobody will ever fully trust my comments because they must be considered biased and I accept that. But my presence on this forum should be here. Note how many times I answer generically about neck braces instead of just Leatt's products. That's because I am just adding the imformation pool so the community can take it all in and make a more informed decision for themselves.

Lastly you commented on flex of the neck possibly being better than rigidness. You are note the only one to think this. That is exactly the thought I had when I first saw a neck brace. And I asked a lot of questions and no one had answers that made sense to me so I didn't wear one. I was working for Icon Motosports at the time and Leatt asked if I'd come to work for them and I just told them I had a good job, thanks anyway. Then Dr. Leatt flew out to California just to talk to me and I hit him with all the concerns I had, I had heard and more. I was so satisfied with the answers that I quit a billion Dollar company to work for one a fraction of the size. The explanations are long and complex and that is why I decided on a series of videos as an adequate explanation. I hope you'll watch them and judge for yourself if they have merit.

Definitely agree that your presence here is a good thing and I would absolutely believe you have complete confidence in the product. It makes for a miserable existence to sell something you don't believe in!

The videos sound like they have great intentions, I can't wait to see them. I've formed my own opinion on neck braces, mostly on my own ideas, but I'd really like to see the data behind their design and testing. I hope you're able to keep marketing's paws off of the films, because you really don't want to blow an opportunity to convey some good educational information. Just let the facts carry the weight of the message, don't push the limits of honesty with a sales agenda. It's tough because people will often reject an entire idea if they catch someone trying to bullshit through one small portion, even if the idea in general is legit. Anyway, like I said, can't wait to see them.

Sorry Chilli Dog, I posted a sarcastic remark back to you and should not have.

Part of my job includes tracking down rumors, finding their souce and use facts to overcome them. I'll never get anywhere doing this by slamming you.

Can you tell me if the proof you have seen/heard is something I can find? Was it a document, video, commet, quote? Can you tell me where this came from? I look for these things as part of my job and have never founbd anything stronger than a forum post to say that there is proof neck braces don't work. I believe you posted what you did because it is what you bel;ieve. And I support your right to say it, but can you help me track it down. I am confident that I can hold the "proof" up to the light and you'll all see it is not proof after all. Any help you can send my way is much appreciated. If you don't feel good posting your info online you can phone me at Leatt at 800-691-3314 or email me at phil@leatt.com

Sorry again for the sarcastic comment, you didn't deserve that.

Get lost Troll.