Engine relocation test?


35 replies to this topic
  • asnyder2

Posted July 18, 2012 - 06:05 AM

#21

How do u figure the mod is unreversible? Maybe the slotting is but the engine can returned to original position. In all honesty, if it didn't make a difference I would say so. Nothing wrong with admitting fault in buying part that didn't live up to expectations or claims. I do it with tires all the time. If I throw 150 away on hard terrain tires for one ride that aren't any count except for near concrete type dirt, so be it.

  • asnyder2

Posted July 18, 2012 - 06:10 AM

#22

As far as refering to sag and manual, I.take it u replace ur piston every 18 hrs too like the manual states. I have tried different sag settings, just do search and see just how many are running 95-100, I might go back and try it again for heck of it. It's easily enough changed.

  • FinchFan194

Posted July 18, 2012 - 06:34 AM

#23

Some relevant points.

1. I haven't seen anyone who complains about the bike actually confirm their sag is within the 95-100mm recommended by the manual.

2 The engine (reportedly) weighs 70 lbs. The lightest of riders weigh at least 140 lbs. Imagine how little effort it takes to move your body forward 3mm and double the effect of the mod instantaneously.

3. Nobody who goes through all the hassle to move the engine forward is going to say anything bad about it. They've already commited irreversible molestation to their bike.


All valid points, kind or reminds me of the types who put on CF fork guards to save weight, yet you could drink one less soda a week and triple those ounces you are saving.
From what I understand engine location is not the issue with the bike, but rather with the frame being too stiff and around the neck being to flxible. I know the teams in Europe are gusseting the frame at the neck to stiffen it up in that area.

  • hoffman910

Posted July 18, 2012 - 06:51 AM

#24

All valid points, kind or reminds me of the types who put on CF fork guards to save weight, yet you could drink one less soda a week and triple those ounces you are saving.
From what I understand engine location is not the issue with the bike, but rather with the frame being too stiff and around the neck being to flxible. I know the teams in Europe are gusseting the frame at the neck to stiffen it up in that area.


So by me eating too much ice cream or having a few too many beers I am in a sense just transferring some weight to the front of my bike via my gut!!!! Lol.

I read that some people like the lowering link, most like the engine relocation kit but aren't both doing the opposite?? Also I've read many people have claimed the issue has gone away after having their suspension done. I need mine done due to my size so I'm thinking why not spend the money on something that'll improve the bike all around over just moving a small amount of weight.

  • grayracer513

Posted July 18, 2012 - 07:46 AM

#25

Sag WILL NOT affect the static weight distribution in any way, for one thing. What it will do is alter the steering head angle, and that affects cornering. Always has.

There MAY be something to the idea that relocating the rotating mass one way or other might have a detectable effect, but not the axis of the reciprocating mass. That's a vibration issue unrelated to handling.

As far as how an unmodified bike could have more front weight than one with the kit, one word explains it: tires. The engine only weighs 70 pounds, and is only being moved 3mm. That's less than 1/8".

Moving my 180 pounds an inch will shift far more weight than moving 70 pounds 3mm.

Irreversible? Come on.

On the other hand, it's unlike DRD to sell snake oil.

In all, I remain open minded, but skeptical. :)

  • rickallen124

Posted July 18, 2012 - 08:19 PM

#26

The DR. D kit certainly makes the front end feel more planted on faster/rougher sections but at the same time it trades the light steering feeling in tight/slow corners for a heavier steering feeling.

  • hoffman910

Posted July 19, 2012 - 04:40 AM

#27

I wonder how the weight is distributed from wheel to wheel on other brands of 450?

  • FZ1426

Posted July 19, 2012 - 07:03 AM

#28

How do u figure the mod is unreversible? Maybe the slotting is but the engine can returned to original position. In all honesty, if it didn't make a difference I would say so. Nothing wrong with admitting fault in buying part that didn't live up to expectations or claims. I do it with tires all the time. If I throw 150 away on hard terrain tires for one ride that aren't any count except for near concrete type dirt, so be it.


Well...not that you couldn't move the engine back, but once you take a rat tail file to the frame and cases, that pretty much qualifies as "irreversible molestation" in my book.

It certainly wouldn't be worth moving it back after going through all it takes to move it in the first place. I'm just trying to get get the point accross that the bike has so many positive attributes (such as mentioned above). All it takes is proper set-up to make it shine. After all we are not talking about an actual problem, we are talking about "feel".

I have a lot of respect for Dr. D but it's worth mentioning that he's in the business of selling parts. I think moving the engine forward is a tactic designed to accomodate the (sometimes) whimsical desires of certain pro riders who ride at superhuman levels (and who may or may not know what they want). Once that perception is injected into the general MX culture people who sell parts are going to take advantage of that perception...to sell parts.

Word of advice: When it comes time to sell your bike, don't mention you took a rat tail file to your frame!

Edited by FZ1426, July 19, 2012 - 07:18 AM.


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  • hoffman910

Posted July 19, 2012 - 11:19 AM

#29

I would like to see MXA do a test where they have 2 identical bikes, but install the kit on one. Then let 5 guys ride both and pick the one they like better and also pick which one has the kit installed... If they all like the one with the kit and all pick the right one, then I'll send DRD my money!!!

  • luvnoldcars

Posted July 19, 2012 - 03:38 PM

#30

Not being smart, doesn't piston move upwards as well. So in ur theory, the bike weighs less when piston moves upwards?

the piston is forced down by combustion. there is no outside forces that bring it back up.

  • yam 3

Posted July 20, 2012 - 05:02 AM

#31

I installed one and love it. I tried a lowering link with some sucess. I put the stock link back on with the relocating kit, and it works much better. On tight tracks or slower corners it makes a big difference. I remember reading an article 10+ years ago about factory riders, and one of the comments made was that they moved the motor forward. The rider was astonished with the seemingly small movement and how big a differencde it made. By the way this was on a two stroke!

The kit works, is it a fix all? not really...just a bandaid.

  • grayracer513

Posted July 20, 2012 - 07:10 AM

#32

the piston is forced down by combustion. there is no outside forces that bring it back up.


The reciprocating assembly (piston, top of the rod, pin, etc.) produces a vibration oriented along the bore axis, and is an engine balancing issue. The forces involved have no effect on the handling of the bike because unlike rotating mass, there is no effect like the gyroscopic influences of the spinning crank (which are overrated anyway) that affect vehicle maneuverability. In terms of engine location, reciprocating vibration is a non-issue.

  • yzfrider1

Posted July 25, 2012 - 08:49 PM

#33

Moving my 180 pounds an inch will shift far more weight than moving 70 pounds 3mm.


I just installed the pro taper footpegs w/ a 5 mm height increase so that I can get to the front of the tank easier.

On the other hand, it's unlike DRD to sell snake oil.


Heard a lot of chatter that you couldn't run both the link and the kit together. Last weekend, I spoke w/ approx. 3 guys that were the lowering link w/ relocation kit. Someone mentioned they saw Doug at a race and that he was running both. I called Douback racing and was advised that he wasn't. I asked if the person was sure, b/c I had heard contrary info. She asked Doug, and confirmed that he is running both the lowering link and relocation kit. Apparently he is also using the radiator lowering kit as well.

Gonna put the relocation kit back on, and try it w/ the link. If it doesn't work, I preferred the benefits of the link over the relocation kit.

  • rcmxracing

Posted July 26, 2012 - 12:56 PM

#34

MXA gives the Dr. D kit 5 stars BUT THEY DON'T talk about sag, fork height, lowering link, etc. Ugh! I've spent quite a lot of time playing with my set up to get a more consistent feel in the corners and I've been running a lowering link, 105mm sag and WAS running my forks 6mm up. I changed to running the fork flush (tubes flush with top clamp) and really liked the feel through the corners. I could get more over the front of the bike without knifing/tucking. Note that I ride a lot of sand tracks. (If anyone cares the suspension was re-valved and has stiffer fork springs and a softer shock spring - I'm 5'10" and 180lbs). I've been watching this this thread for a while and might just pull the trigger on this kit. I do notice a bit of a nervous front end under braking compared to KX and RMZ, but not nearly as nervous as the CRF. I don't know how anyone can ride the CRF! IMHO you gotta give to get and the YZ and CRF are lighter feeling, nimbler bikes than KX and RMZ. Yes the RMZ turns well but it FEELS and is heavy. Sure would like to ride '13 KTM 450!

http://motocrossacti...-KIT--9150.aspx

Edited by rcmxracing, July 26, 2012 - 01:11 PM.


  • hoffman910

Posted July 27, 2012 - 06:01 AM

#35

I finally got my new 2012 out to the track over the weekend! Compared to my 09 it felt awesome in the corners! On a couple corners with a high speed straight full of braking bumps I felt my rear was dancing side to side a bit but I'm still running stock springs and am working on clicker settings and sag. Probably just a rebound issue for me, or that I'm overweight for my springs. The only time I noticed front end issues was when I slid back on the seat in corners. The bike just puts the power to the ground do well it pulls my pants right off!!! Lol. I'll pass on the kits for now, if after I do my suspension I have any issues I'd consider it but I just can't believe 3mm changes much....

  • phiderman

Posted July 27, 2012 - 07:42 AM

#36

it does. i put it on and it was immediately noticeable. factory connection set up the suspension and it was pretty good but i felt it could be better. put the kit on and i cant imagine it being better.





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