71 replies to this topic

[woz TT Member]

This thread is for the 2013 model 300cc two strokes, not other years and models.

In the past the 300's have varied in a number of ways:  different frames, different forks, "old plastic", with and without e-start etc.   It seems that KTM is making the two bikes more similar, which might make it a bit harder to choose which one to get.

I've checked out the stats on the KTM Web Site (which is sometimes incorrect), but still probably the best we have to go on: (I got the internal gearing off dealer site)


component        XC     XC-W

sec drive gearing   14-50     13-50

1st   15:31   14:32
2nd 16:25   16:26
3rd   20:25   20:25
4th   22:23   22:23
5th   25:22   25:22
6th   26:20   26:20

Weight    229
Fork    WP Suspension Up Side Down 4860 MXMA CC
   same
Shock     WP Suspension 5018 BAVP DCC  
   same
rear travel   12.48 13.19
Seat Height 39.6   37.8
Tank Capacity 3.04   2.6
Starting elec.+ kick elec + kick
other number plate   enduro light
Price 8,299     8,299.

So, again, assuming this is right the only differences are the gearing, the tanks, and the rear end height.  I'll post the pictures below if I can figure out how, but they look almost identical.

As for the wide-ratio tranny on the W, it's interesting.  If you swapped the 14t sproket for a 13t on the XC your final gears in 3,4,5 and 6 would be identical.   The only difference is the slightly lower 1st and 2nd, with a bigger 2nd to 3rd gap.  (The criticism of the W is often 'gappiness'.)

Is the seat height and travel difference the result of the XC having a linkage?

SO, I'll turn it over to the gurus.  Hard to see that there is much in it at this point.  I'm surprised they continue to offer both, really.

[woz TT Member]

[woz TT Member]

[woz TT Member]

So, the linkage is the main difference at this point.   The tank size is probably a function of that, on the no-linkage XC-W the shock takes up some of the space where the tank would be otherwise.  The seat height and shock travel are also functions of the linkage.

The XC-W is, as I understand it designed as the bike for super gnarly terrain: thus granny first and second, and the linkless suspension which is softer but more compliant in KTM-think.   The XC used to be kinda the racing machine: with the closer ratio gear box and the linkage rear suspension, which makes a more progressive rear-end, for big hits like motocross or desert racing.

I'd love to see the Dirt Bike magazine side-by-side.

[WILDMAN442 TT Member]

I have the KTM site up as well.

Also note the tank is listed at 3.00 Gal. on the XC. Only 2.5 on the XC-W.

I am in the market for a new bike and its going to be orange. Would love to see some more testing of these models once they land stateside

Justin

[JC69 TT Newbie]

The Forks are different. XC has closed cartridge forks and XC-w does not. XC-W will be set up for slower riding. Adjustablilty on the XC-W supension isn't as good. XC-W usually comes with a spark arrestor and XC doesn't.  XC-W comes with lights and Odometer.

[WILDMAN442 TT Member]

So as far as power... It should be the same right?

I i am torn between these two...

Justin

[Cold Smoke TT Bronze Member]

[originalmonk]

WILDMAN442, on 04 July 2012 - 01:38 AM, said:

So as far as power... It should be the same right?

I i am torn between these two...

Justin

Power wise, they're the same. The open cartridge forks are a little more bump compliant over the closed cartridge that you find on the XC. I hated my 300xc-w trans especially the jump from 2nd to 3rd. Due to the 300 not being able to rev out as far as the 250, it was hugely noticeable for me. I would never buy one again for that very reason.

[racerxx276 TT Silver Member]

does the 300xc actually have a 3 gallon tank or is it 2.5?? I know what the spec sheet says but...

[E-TECH TT Bronze Member]

Havent seen fich yet but think tanks are the same@ 11L.
Muffler same no arrester.
T. clamps are billet 22 on the xc.  cast 20 on w .I like these!.
I like xc trannie hands down.
On rough bike induced hack the xc suspension may be more plush,were the w. has a dead feel yet will wallow on fast rollers. w. fork springs are softer@.42nm  vs .44nm. Last year the xc shock was very soft.   13???
Both have 13/50 gearing so 1st and 2nd are slower on w. this gives gap to 3rd not big deal on the 300 but stands out more in the 250.
As for linkage vs pds the new pds frame with (flex loop) has been perfected. And the inside of the shock was fixed for 09 so i see no need for 6 or 7 LB of extra moving parts for offroad mx yes.
There will be arguments on this it's just my opinon.
The w. gets lights for 13
The 300 revs as high as a 250 ........IF YOU hold it there!

Edited by E-TECH, 04 July 2012 - 05:43 PM.

[mxengineer4 TT Silver Member]

E-TECH, on 04 July 2012 - 05:40 PM, said:

Havent seen fich yet but think tanks are the same@ 11L.
Muffler same no arrester.
T. clamps are billet 22 on the xc.  cast 20 on w .I like these!.
I like xc trannie hands down.
On rough bike induced hack the xc suspension may be more plush,were the w. has a dead feel yet will wallow on fast rollers. w. fork springs are softer@.42nm  vs .44nm. Last year the xc shock was very soft.   13???
Both have 13/50 gearing so 1st and 2nd are slower on w. this gives gap to 3rd not big deal on the 300 but stands out more in the 250.
As for linkage vs pds the new pds frame with (flex loop) has been perfected. And the inside of the shock was fixed for 09 so i see no need for 6 or 7 LB of extra moving parts for offroad mx yes.
There will be arguments on this it's just my opinon.
The w. gets lights for 13
The 300 revs as high as a 250 ........IF YOU hold it there!

Great summary.  I've owned and ridden the 11 PDS and 12 linkage back to back and for me I notice more chassis overall movement on the PDS bike (just feels like it has more travel).  The linkage rear end seems to ride a little lower and perhaps chatter a little less under braking.  I felt the linkage bike has a broader operating range before I feel the need to spin a clicker.  I like the simplicity of the PDS and the feel of the linkage (especially on the MX track).  For me the PDS and linkage both work well and one is not superior to the other, just have to decide what matches your needs best.  The closed cartridge forks work so well in all conditions I prefer them now.

The XCW's come with the KTM speedometer also.  The new XC front fender will not accept the current KTM headlight so hopefully EE will make a new HL shell for the XC's soon.

[woz TT Member]

JC69, on 04 July 2012 - 12:11 AM, said:

The Forks are different. XC has closed cartridge forks and XC-w does not. XC-W will be set up for slower riding. Adjustablilty on the XC-W supension isn't as good. XC-W usually comes with a spark arrestor and XC doesn't.  XC-W comes with lights and Odometer.

Thanks!  Those are all interesting facts.

Edited by woz, 05 July 2012 - 08:33 AM.

[woz TT Member]

E-TECH, on 04 July 2012 - 05:40 PM, said:

Both have 13/50 gearing so 1st and 2nd are slower on w. this gives gap to 3rd not big deal on the 300 but stands out more in the 250.

According to the factory specs above the XC has 14/50 final drive, meaning a little less top speed.   But I bet it's still pretty damn fast.   And, of course, sprocket swaps are easy - but you'd make 1st and 2nd even higher.   Might not matter for someone like a desert racer, they don't spend any time in 1st anyway.   A lot of people start in 2nd to avoid giant wheelies on race starts, so it's only for getting it rolling when you are putting around.    Ditto on hill climbs, I can't remember using first very often, by the time your going that slow you are pretty much doomed.  (I have no trials skills)

E-TECH, on 04 July 2012 - 05:40 PM, said:

As for linkage vs pds the new pds frame with (flex loop) has been perfected. And the inside of the shock was fixed for 09 so i see no need for 6 or 7 LB of extra moving parts for offroad mx yes.

That's interesting.  It wasn't that long ago that they were all linkage-less, even the SX bikes.

[cmjb TT Bronze Member]

woz, on 05 July 2012 - 08:48 AM, said:

According to the factory specs above the XC has 14/50 final drive, meaning a little less top speed.

A bigger 14 tooth countershaft for the XC would mean faster top speed than the XCW.

[blysccr TT Bronze Member]

so will any of the other ktm headlights fit on the 2013 xc? also, I saw on some bikes this weekend on the back end there was a plastic post that was threaded like it would accept a bracket to hold a tail light and plate. does the 13 xc have this?

also, it seems that people are saying the xcw has super low gearing for tight single track, just how tall is the 1-2 on the xc? On stock gearing, would I be idling at like 15 mph (xc) or is it just not as crazy low as the W? Is the tranny on the XC still in the normal range for trail bikes?

looks like the xc has better fork and better feedback with link rear, i just don't want to be clutch burning on slower stuff. a headlight would also be a necessity.

[woz TT Member]

cmjb, on 05 July 2012 - 04:51 PM, said:

A bigger 14 tooth countershaft for the XC would mean faster top speed than the XCW.

Is that right?  Oh, yeah, it is!  (Thinking about 10 speed bicycle for a second)...

Cool, so the "wide-range" doesn't get you more top speed, just more goat climbing gears!

Guess that makes sense, the origin of the XC is the desert racer.   Everything about it is optimized for higher speed running, and it goes a bit faster as delivered stock.

[TommyB 754 TT Titanium Member]

originalmonk, on 04 July 2012 - 09:16 AM, said:

Power wise, they're the same. The open cartridge forks are a little more bump compliant over the closed cartridge that you find on the XC. I hated my 300xc-w trans especially the jump from 2nd to 3rd. Due to the 300 not being able to rev out as far as the 250, it was hugely noticeable for me. I would never buy one again for that very reason.

Are you sure of this? in the past there was different heads and CDI's, and the power difference was noticeable.

[kah68 TT Member]

I think the 'Gappy' complaints were more to do with the 5 speeds, the new 6 speeds (11' to present) almost eliminates this.

[blysccr TT Bronze Member]

kah68 that's great to hear. i was somewhat worried about the xcw tranny. I'm trying to pick up a 13 xcw but being in college and making shitty money means i gotta sell more toys for a down payment.

i wanna go with the xcw because pds good for 99% of my riding. OC forks are easier to mess with. 13 has headlight, taillight and speedo for street legalities. but the new graphics are kinda nice.