The purpose of this is to help give you better ignition, which will give you better bottom end torque and better top end hp. No sacrifice, no issues, just more fun and more power to control. If you have acc, it will help with your chargin.

Most of us dont race, but if i did i would want to squeeze as much power and speed out of my bike. As a leisure rider i want that slight edge over my friends to take that climb, or to beat them on that wicked straight.

Have you a dyno test before and after?

mog, on 01 July 2012 - 01:06 PM, said:

Mog not to be rude but it seems as if your discussion here is mute and null.... As stated previously by myself if your such a elietist that you think your KTM came stock with sufficent compents than your mistaken... There not trying to use more supplies than they have to if they can get away with less they will and have it still perform HOWEVER i will make one more attempt to persuade the faster and with less resistance energy can travel the better off you are... You cant put to bike of cables on... If you dont have the logical skills to visualize this then dont upgrade if youve now seen the light order from my link or thirdly dont belive and do it just for cheap reassurance...

I tried to dyno my 09 bike a couple yrs ago. I got every excuse under the sun.

We cant hook up the RPM sensor, the ignition pickup. We cannot hook up the o2 sensor on your tailpipe. and the one that blew my mind, Your MX tires wont give us a correct readout, though 10hrs of hard ridin in the desert didnt wear the tire as much as 5mins on their dyno...

I will try and dyno my new bike after the break-in

Here are some car dynos and tests

http://www.turbomaga...em/viewall.html

http://www.racinglab...whishygrsy.html

People dyno bikes all the time,  I have done in excess of 10 , the first dynos of cars produced small enough gains that each run on even a Mx bike can vary by one Hp each run on a 30hp bike!  The last dyno of the rx7 was a good gain but I question if the earthing on such a old car is fair to compare with a new setup? My bike isn't 20 years old .... the 2nd series of tests looks better but gains of 12% economy look odd compared to the gains in power,  I'm sceptical , ive seen so many cons,  icat was the last,  I'm not elitest at all,  just seen many many aftermaket add ins not give the goods,  big gun pipes claim 6-8 Hp,  reality is 2hp , most pipes claim 3.5 lb weight saving in actual fact most are 2lb ! Many much less more like 1lb , you seem to feel I should believe something written as you have written it, but you don't have any evidance at this time a modern bike has given any more power,  this talk of modified engines beniftting more just doesn't add up at all,  a spark is a spark and has timing,  hotter sparks cooler stronger sparks etc all is marketing speak Imo!  Don't feel its personal just asking for clear evidance it works on a modern bike?

Power to you Mog...

There are a lot of claims and no can actually give you a real answer. I had to learn just about everything i know. And may i say it wasnt cheap. I played with sparkplugs, i tried Splitfires, Bosch +4, and others. I tried all the latest ignition wires and you know what i found. Stock is OK, but for that 5-10% more its like threadin a needle in the dark whilst sittin in the crows nest of a ship. Its hit but mostly miss.

If you are happy with your ride and it makes you grin i envy you. I am always lookin for the next big thing. Sema to me is a history lesson. I am light yrs ahead of most ppl, for i like to pioneer the idea till the end. Then i look at my financials and swear i wont do it again, But it always does...

Just remember regardless of what you buy an accountant made a call and the engineer put in what was the min requirement. That is the fact about everything available to the general public.

I agree but aftermarket stuff often is overpriced,  badly fitting,  rarely if ever live up to the hype,  ive been into Mx since I was 15 and I'm 40 now, the v force was one of the few products that was a true gain,  most others just moved power around and often actually lost power,  4 strokes are easy to get power from a pipe as you often see they are no longer 94db like std,  the weights of pipes made me smile,  unless you go full ti you are wasting your time looking for real gains,  but they all claim how much they will save you weight,  most don't fit well!  Most aftermarket wheels weigh lots more than std,  all that glitters .......

Well, u only got 8yrs on me...

1.5 yrs . 300hrs and 1000 atleast wrenching.... Doesnt make me less reputable than your guy's experiance. I started with 1,000$ after highschool and  flipped 16 bikes to get enough money to buy 2 nice bikes one for me and one for my lady and a green stick.... Ive also landed a reputable wrench job. Im not just spouting... Mog i will find a study for you as you clearly are a seeing is beliving kinda guy

Naf's mod is a very good idea, but he is really terrible at explaining it's purpose, and it's result.

The purpose of increasing the diameter and strand count of the +, and especially the - cables, is to increase  the surface area for which the current will travel.

Skin effect dictates the high frequency current follows the path of least resistance, which is the outer surface, or 'skin' of the individual strands of copper. More strands means more 'skin'. Lot's more strands means lots more skin.

You cannot measure the resistance of a wire with a multi-meter to determine any change in resistance, because you are not measuring for changes in resistance, you are looking for changes in IMPEADANCE (frequency dependent resistance).

A multi-meter measures using a 1,000hz tone at very low current. It can only be done with a VTM meter, which can deal with a very wide range of current, and do it at ANY frequency.

The ground path of a motorcycle is tiny. There is a great deal of 'hysteresis' distortion of the electrical wave forms due to un-like materials, paint, heat, and vibration. If you could eliminate all of that distortion, the ground 'speed' will then equal the + voltage and current speed. That is your goal. To 'balance' the distribution of current and voltage, so the digital electronics work in a constant and consistent environment.

Remember, typical 'utility' digital circuits have very low tolerance for changes in voltage, current, frequency induction, etc etc.

If you can give them perfect balance of power, they work the way they were supposed to in the first place.

The most typical application of this method is called 'Star Topology' used in point-to-point hand-wired circuits like high-end speaker crossovers or power distribution for auto sound, and more recently in the creation of LAN's in large spaces.

It has long been a practice in the automotive field to add additional grounds, particularly from battery - to body and body to engine.  However there usually the engine is isolated and sitting on rubber mounts which makes good ground connections more important than with solid mounted engines.  Often times for convenience the main battery ground is located near and often underneath the battery mounting, just begging for corrosion problems due to acid migration from the battery.

On motorcycles it is not as important to add many additional ground since most components are mounted solidly on the frame or engine itself, although matching the "pipeline" size and redundancy is a good idea in my book.

As stated multi strand wire is best, which I definitely agree.  Also stated was soldered connections which I disagree with.  If you solder the wire to your connector you do get a good connection, but the heat anneals the metal and promotes fatigue and breaking at the solder joint.  You also take away the flexibility of the wire where the solder has hardened into it's length which is more likely to break than a properly crimped joint. Under a high load situation the soldered connection can heat and melt and loosen whereas a crimped connection will not.

Audi states emphatically in their repair manuals that you should never solder on their harnesses, rather crimp any connection.  They have 2 pages of instruction about proper crimping.

davek18, on 02 July 2012 - 06:48 PM, said:

Solder bad (for connections in motion)

Crimp good (if done with a folding crimp tool ala Snap-on)

Tin/Lead is not a great conductor anyway, which is the primary ingredient in solder, and is down there with water, when it comes to conducting complex waveforms or low currents.

snap on makes terrible crimpers good everything else... and i mentioned soldering because alot of people use shitty butt connectors and crimpers....

Dasquriel, on 02 July 2012 - 07:21 PM, said:

But all I hear is theory!  I want to see some evidance of something changing!  If no one can show me evidance its all just words!

Is that there new model? As ive used previous years and they SUCK.... Terrible pivot and tooth for crimping is too wide just as the one you pictured it takes alot of strength to get it closed..... I havnt use the one pictured but if its like there old one ill stick to mine

mog, on 02 July 2012 - 10:53 PM, said:

PM me your address and i will send you a cable free of charge to try on your bike from the negative side of your battery to the motor.

If you like the feelin then you may upgrade the other two wires at your leisure and send me the payment for shippin you the wire...

A simple voltage drop test with system under load, before and after will give evidence of change if any.   Redundant cables sure can't hurt though I agree.

I agree on the crimpers and connectors, like anything else quality is important.  I didn't elaborate in my post as apparently I should have.  I assumed that TT'ers wouldn't just use the Walmart $10.98, 200 piece crimper kit with pliers.  (Never assume anything, I know that)

I use a "super crimper" sold by american Honda motorcycle division years ago.  When I tried to replace my tool with a new one due to years of wear I found they were discontinued, of course.  I have tried several others over the years and can't find one I like better unfortunately.

I get my connectors through Winzer, they have a very complete selection of the uninsulated fold over style in different wire sizes (metric) and even special application connectors like gold contact VW MAF connectors.

They also sell a crimper tool  that isn't too bad, but it suffers from trying to be a "do all" tool and is a little clumsy to use and the leverage is not well designed for my weakening hands.  I would love to find a well designed small, compound action, fold over style crimper.

I am also looking for one motorcycle that will fit all of my needs from tight trails to highway usage.

mog, on 02 July 2012 - 10:53 PM, said:

If you don't like the music you hear at the party, then don't come inside.

It's not all that simple to test and quantify. We are talking a few percent of change most of the time, and more than that some of the time.

It's like throttle response. It's a huge thing to get your throttle response consistent, cause then you can ride with more precision, less throttle, and more traction (or less if you want). That's almost impossible to quantify and measure. A two-axis graph could not possibly define all the elements occurring at once.

Prove to me that 15lbs of air in your front tire is better traction than 20lbs.  Oh wait, you know it works, yet no one showed you a graph.

Edited by Krannie, 03 July 2012 - 05:22 AM.

Its a good answer but I don't think earths are the same as Tyres :-) I will pm naf my address and test it :-)