222 replies to this topic

[Old_Man_Time TT Addict]

leech, on 29 June 2012 - 07:36 AM, said:

I don't really know much about the topic, but with the help of google I did find some interesting stuff:

Handling wolf encounters:
http://www.runthepla...ty/wolfsafe.asp

Info on wolf attacks:
http://en.wikipedia....tacks_on_humans

A documentary on Northwest Wolves:
http://www.conservat...the-lost-wolves



I can't say I have any strong opinions on this one way or the other, just seems that so far this thread is full of fear and conjecture.

Before quoting or citing any information on any subject it is good to research who is offering the information. There may be a bias based denial in such articles. Two of the articles clearly are by pro-wolf representatives. One of the articles actually says there are no documented incidents of wolf attacks where someone died in North America, yet another of your articles says there are documented cases. Don't you think it interesting that the wolf was exterminated in many parts of North America. I am not afraid of going into the woods but would start carrying a gun if I knew there were wolf packs in the area. Fear and conjecture? read all of the articles you cited and research why ranchers long ago decimated the wolf population.

This reminds me of dog owners who's dogs snarl, show their teeth and lunge at strangers, they are quick to say don't worry he would never bite anyone. When they finally do bite the owners deny and make excuses rarely taking responsibility for whats happened. One of the articles says that wolf attacks are limited to an individual wolf or pack and are not normal for wolves in general. I don't think that is much comfort to the persons or livestock who are attacked by this rare wolf or pack that was reintroduced into an area. If they never were introduced the incident would never have happened.

[mattgill03 TT Member]

That's a helluva cast op.

[FinchFan394 TT Titanium Member]

Old_Man_Time, on 29 June 2012 - 07:03 PM, said:

Before quoting or citing any information on any subject it is good to research who is offering the information. There may be a bias based denial in such articles. Two of the articles clearly are by pro-wolf representatives. One of the articles actually says there are no documented incidents of wolf attacks where someone died in North America, yet another of your articles says there are documented cases. Don't you think it interesting that the wolf was exterminated in many parts of North America. I am not afraid of going into the woods but would start carrying a gun if I knew there were wolf packs in the area. Fear and conjecture? read all of the articles you cited and research why ranchers long ago decimated the wolf population.

This reminds me of dog owners who's dogs snarl, show their teeth and lunge at strangers, they are quick to say don't worry he would never bite anyone. When they finally do bite the owners deny and make excuses rarely taking responsibility for whats happened. One of the articles says that wolf attacks are limited to an individual wolf or pack and are not normal for wolves in general. I don't think that is much comfort to the persons or livestock who are attacked by this rare wolf or pack that was reintroduced into an area. If they never were introduced the incident would never have happened.

If they were never exterminated they wouldn't have to be introduced...either way mankind hasas gotten in the way. We need to stop meddling, whether it be extermination, preservation or introduction.
I am 50/50 on the subject because it seems only hunters who want to hunt the animals the wolves will kill seem to be complaining.

[FinchFan394 TT Titanium Member]

motomike111, on 29 June 2012 - 04:07 PM, said:

It's two different ecosystems, These wolves are native in Canada, and between the moose, elk, bison and 1,000,000 plus caribou herds everything is in balance.

But down here, because a bunch of idiot environmentalists wanted to do a noble science project and bring the forests back to a natural state, they brought in a different, new species of wolf. These big wolves are doing more damage than good, go over to ID where they first dropped them off and see what those wolves have done. Or just wait a few more years and see what they do here in the N Cascades and Teanaway.

Wolves have been gone from our ecosystems for too long and bringing in these things isn't the answer.

So I just might go poach me a deer or two, maybe an elk, just shoot them and leave. But it's okay because I'm just feeding the coyotes and ravens... one big circle.

Hopefully the 60 new wolves is just internet hype.

So the ecosystems have borders? I walk accross the Canadian border and it's a TOTALLY different ecosystem?
As far as your sarcasm about poaching, that would be no better than what you claim the wolves are doing. I would love for an average joe schmoe to come up with a story of a half eaten carcass and not some hunter with an agenda.

[motomike111 TT Bronze Member]

FinchFan394, on 29 June 2012 - 08:31 PM, said:

So the ecosystems have borders? I walk accross the Canadian border and it's a TOTALLY different ecosystem? As far as your sarcasm about poaching, that would be no better than what you claim the wolves are doing. I would love for an average joe schmoe to come up with a story of a half eaten carcass and not some hunter with an agenda.

1) Canada is pretty big, and yes they have different ecosystems up there. Watch Planet Earth they explain it all.
2) I'm not so sure you understand sarcasm, my comment wasn't about poaching, in fact it was about your comment. wink wink.
3) Um OK, like I said before. Do a little research.

[FinchFan394 TT Titanium Member]

I perfectly understood your poaching comment and what it referred to...

Edited by FinchFan394, 29 June 2012 - 09:07 PM.

[B Lamb]

FinchFan394, on 29 June 2012 - 01:23 PM, said:

Look I am FAR from a right wing nut job environmentalist, but last I checked while wolves were around before we even came to America the wildlife populations were just fine. If these wolves are soo destructive then why aren't they causing the same problems in Canada? There are native wolves in Alaska and they have more elk, moose and deer than anywhere in the lower 48. I say things need to go back to the way they were before we exterminated these animals. If there are no elk left for hunters to hunt because the wolves are eating them, then more power to the wolves.
Also "if" they are killing for fun, then something else is getting a free meal, so it all makes one big circle.

Just like polar bears, their numbers are depleting because of what liberal whackos call "global warming" well if they die off from being fat and slow then that is what I call natural selection.

I love how some people are saying we shouldn't introduce wolves because that is man kind interrupting, well then what did you call the extinction of wolves 100 years ago?

I'll give a few of these questions a shot, first, they do cause some problems in Alaska and Canada, but it isn't as noticeable there because the prey base is often larger. One of the primary prey sources for this sub-species of wolf is moose, and in the north the moose are much larger than they are in WA. state. Alaska does not have more elk, or deer than anywhere in the lower 48, that is a false assumption. There are very few elk in Alaska, and the deer are also fewer.
You claim "extermination" of wolves occured, that's a bunch of bullshit, just ask the people in Canada and Alaska if wolves have ever been exterminated.
The endangered species act has been bastardized to fit the agenda of animal rights groups, at no time have wolves actually been endangered. There has always been a healthy population in the great white north. If they are recognized as a "re-introduced species" in Washington, you guys will have to deal with the ESA. Does that make sense when your neighbors to the east (Idaho) have a shitload of the mangy bastards? I'm sure Idaho, and Canadian wolves  know where the borders are, and would never think of crossing.
I'll stop ranting, but do some research on the endangered species act, and also, if your truly interested in what re-introduction really means call a few of the outfitters in Idaho, or better yet search Dr. Valerius Geist, one of the worlds leading experts on ungulates, he has some very interesting research.

[FinchFan394 TT Titanium Member]

I never said wolves were exterminated in Canada or Alaska...just the lower 48 as I was referring to the original topic of introduction.

[B Lamb]

Oh, I see, perhaps you should talk to some people in Michigan or Minnesota about how wolves were exterminated from the lower 48. Last time I checked, they were part of that geographic location.

[rolliew TT Addict]

http://www.rense.com...ral93/idaho.htm

[FinchFan394 TT Titanium Member]

B Lamb, on 30 June 2012 - 07:34 AM, said:

Oh, I see, perhaps you should talk to some people in Michigan or Minnesota about how wolves were exterminated from the lower 48. Last time I checked, they were part of that geographic location.

What do those states have to do with GP Nat Forest?

Edited by FinchFan394, 30 June 2012 - 08:43 AM.

[FinchFan394 TT Titanium Member]

rolliew, on 30 June 2012 - 08:03 AM, said:

http://www.rense.com...ral93/idaho.htm

"A circulating photo of a giant wolf allegedly killed in Sun Valley by the Idaho Department of Fish and Game is a hoax, say state officials. "
http://www.snopes.co...ls/idwolves.asp

[rolliew TT Addict]

It's TRUE, for I read it on an internet FORUM.

[FinchFan394 TT Titanium Member]

rolliew, on 30 June 2012 - 09:05 AM, said:

It's TRUE, for I read it on an internet FORUM.

[Ride Get Help Now]

We should all be terrified of cougars yet I have not seen one in the wild ever on a bike. I know, they see me, but the point is never been a problem. You are much more likely to be killed riding off a cliff than by a cougar or wolf. It is a none issue IMHO.

[FinchFan394 TT Titanium Member]

Ride, on 30 June 2012 - 10:11 AM, said:

We should all be terrified of cougars yet I have not seen one in the wild ever on a bike. I know, they see me, but the point is never been a problem. You are much more likely to be killed riding off a cliff than by a cougar or wolf. It is a none issue IMHO.

I agree, a few friends have had them cross trails here and there, but that is in very remote areas.

[steve_97060 TT Platinum Member]

Thanks all for the chuckle..

The OP posts about a super secret seal team 6 black ops operation of introducing 60 canadian grey wolves (damn foreign wolves, they couldn't even use domestic) that he was told about on the down low from a "friend", and off we go!!!!

yeah, I'm believing that could really happen with no news of it leaking anywhere, local/state/federal agencies always do stuff like that without hearings, public notices, discussion, or news leaking..

this is why you just have to love you some internets..  

carry on...

[Ride Get Help Now]

steve_97060


Hilarious.

[Old_Man_Time TT Addict]

FinchFan394, on 30 June 2012 - 08:52 AM, said:

"A circulating photo of a giant wolf allegedly killed in Sun Valley by the Idaho Department of Fish and Game is a hoax, say state officials. "
http://www.snopes.co...ls/idwolves.asp

This article is fully documented by the folks who introduced the wolves. What do you expect them to say? They are not saying the photos are hoax but rather where the photos were taken. They are not denying introducing those monsters into the environment after natural selection eliminated them. Yes, man is also a part of the natural selection process. And by the way if anyone wants to hear someone other than hunters complaining about these killing machines ask the ranchers. Are they average Joe enough to be considered worthy to complain?

Oh yeah, in Washington over the last 10 years there have been several aggressive cougar confrontations and will be more as the population increases and more folks spend time in the woods.

Edited by Old_Man_Time, 30 June 2012 - 11:15 AM.

[shrubitup brap]

Ya, this whole wolf immigration issue is a problem. How do we know if they're in college, below thirty, immigrated here before age 18, or from Canada? I say show me your papers you Canadian grey wolf! If they can't prove it we should deport them without any court hearing!

Edited by shrubitup, 30 June 2012 - 11:17 AM.