bowhunter007, on 06 July 2012 - 02:11 PM, said:
At 5 yards, those bullet holes are all over the target. At 10 yards, he might not even hit the damn paper.
Blame the shooter, not the gun
49
Wolf's reintroduced to Mt St Helens/Gifford Pinchot National Forest area
Started by
Angliagasser
, Jun 28 2012 10:29 AM
222 replies to this topic
249 posts
Location: Washington
Posted 06 July 2012 - 04:54 PM
Blame the shooter, not the gun
1079 posts
Location: Washington
Posted 06 July 2012 - 06:51 PM
shawplat, on 06 July 2012 - 04:54 PM, said:
Blame the shooter, not the gun
138 posts
Location: Washington
Posted 06 July 2012 - 09:13 PM
who can honestly say that seeing a herd of elk on a ride doesn't make the ride a little better, especialy if you got younger riders or newbies along.
1380 posts
Location: Oregon
Posted 06 July 2012 - 10:23 PM
That snub is retarded. I have a 329 night guard in .44 and it sucks. It's for sale if anyone is interested. Amazing how versatile a 4" barrel is compared to a 1 7/8 or 2 3/4.
3338 posts
Location: Washington
Posted 07 July 2012 - 06:30 AM
scottiesbe, on 06 July 2012 - 10:14 AM, said:
more wolves =less horse back riders,hikers & mountainbikers..... all the better for us dirt bike riders
do not let 60 wild wolves concern you. We need to be more concerned more about 60 sierra club lobyists that peddle land closure.
do not let 60 wild wolves concern you. We need to be more concerned more about 60 sierra club lobyists that peddle land closure.
This point cannot be emphasized enough.
NC
12 posts
Location: Nevada
Posted 11 August 2012 - 04:03 PM
FinchFan394, on 02 July 2012 - 07:09 PM, said:
Okay so a die-hard Outdoorsman/hunter I know that works for the USDA game division that is a buddy of mine answered some questions for me.
First inflat asked him about 60 wolves being dropped off at GP and he laughed and said "No" he then said they have had reports of wolves being dropped off by helicopter with biodegradable parachutes and all sorts of far fetched crap. He also said the biggest wolf ever shot in Idaho by the gam department was 135 pounds. He said wolf attacks are extremely rare and you should be more worried about a swarm of bees than a wolf pack.
He said there are 6 confirmed packs in Washington and another 5 suspected.
First inflat asked him about 60 wolves being dropped off at GP and he laughed and said "No" he then said they have had reports of wolves being dropped off by helicopter with biodegradable parachutes and all sorts of far fetched crap. He also said the biggest wolf ever shot in Idaho by the gam department was 135 pounds. He said wolf attacks are extremely rare and you should be more worried about a swarm of bees than a wolf pack.
He said there are 6 confirmed packs in Washington and another 5 suspected.
2796 posts
Location: Washington
Posted 12 August 2012 - 06:21 AM
coy151, on 11 August 2012 - 04:03 PM, said:
i happen to work for the usda and theres no such thing as a game division. we have wildlife services(government trappers) and we are the last people to know about wolf releases and are responsible for cleaning up the messes that the fish and wildlife service caused by releasing wolves. i doubt you really know anyone from usda as if he worked for wildlife services hed be cussing the wolf unless hes a worthless supervisor that has never worked in the field and see the damage wolves cause
Maybe I doubt you work there!(See how stupid that sounds?)
12 posts
Location: Nevada
Posted 12 August 2012 - 03:11 PM
FinchFan394, on 12 August 2012 - 06:21 AM, said:
I never said "big game" and I do know the guy, he didn't give me an opinion either way on the wolves. I know he does a lot of things like taking out coyotes in city type areas and when a bear wanders in somewhere him and his guys trap it, he has terminated cougars from helicopters, stuff like that. Look if I were to make a story up &%$#@! would I start with the USDA? Maybe I doubt you work there!(See how stupid that sounds?)
2796 posts
Location: Washington
Posted 12 August 2012 - 06:07 PM
Look I know what I know from what he has told me, nothing more nothing less
Let me get this straight...are you calling me a liar? Because either I am telling the truth or I am lying, I am pretty well know. Amongst the guys that hang around here and not known for lying. You on the other hand I have never seen, so to me your credibility is basically zilch!
Let me get this straight...are you calling me a liar? Because either I am telling the truth or I am lying, I am pretty well know. Amongst the guys that hang around here and not known for lying. You on the other hand I have never seen, so to me your credibility is basically zilch!
Edited by FinchFan394, 12 August 2012 - 08:31 PM.
12 posts
Location: Nevada
Posted 13 August 2012 - 08:08 PM
FinchFan394, on 12 August 2012 - 06:07 PM, said:
Look I know what I know from what he has told me, nothing more nothing less
Let me get this straight...are you calling me a liar? Because either I am telling the truth or I am lying, I am pretty well know. Amongst the guys that hang around here and not known for lying. You on the other hand I have never seen, so to me your credibility is basically zilch!
Let me get this straight...are you calling me a liar? Because either I am telling the truth or I am lying, I am pretty well know. Amongst the guys that hang around here and not known for lying. You on the other hand I have never seen, so to me your credibility is basically zilch!
2796 posts
Location: Washington
Posted 13 August 2012 - 08:12 PM
Haha! Me liberal? I would cut off my arm before I voted liberal!!!
480 posts
Location: Idaho
Posted 14 August 2012 - 11:57 AM
Interesting thread, and a lot of misinformation sprinkled throughout. I am not a hunter, but I have spent most of my life in the woods observing what goes on there
As for danger to humans, the threat from wolves is pretty low. Documented actual attacks are pretty rare, but there have been quite a few reports of wolves stalking humans. A couple of years ago, a group of Forest Service "ologists" were on an overnight hike into the Sawtooth Wilderness and got so scared of a pack of wolves stalking them that they called for a helicopter to come and get them. Threats to humans is not the big problem
The big problem with the re-introduction of wolves in Idaho is that it has resulted in the decimation of deer, elk, and moose populations here in Idaho. According to the Chairman of the Idaho Fish & Game Commission, the Lolo herd, has crashed from a historical average of about 12,000 down to about 2,500. The Yellowstone herd has dropped from 20,000 to 6,500. The Gallatin Valley herd in Montana dropped from 1,500 to 200 in 3 years. Deer and moose herds have also severely declined where wolves are present. Cuurent Elk cow/calf ratios are at the lowest level on record. Predation losss currently exceed the ability of herds to recruit adequate numbers of calves into adulthood to restore historical population numbers. Even with the restoration of wolf hunting this year, not enough wolves will be killed to bring back a balance, as hunter success rates are very low. Now, the question of hunting big game is another debate, but it is clear that Wolves have had a major negative impact on big game herds, far beyond hunting, which is MANAGED to sustain population levels
Wolf advocates will try to tell you that Wolves only kill the old and the infirm, culling out the weakest and allegedly improving the health of the herds. Supposedly, they only kill enough to survive, with no "sport kills". Here is a link to a website that has documented many, many sport kills by wolves: http://www.saveelk.com/wolf_002.htm
Finchfan, I am puzzled why you are so invested in this thread. You have made a lot of statements that are simply not true, I will leave it to you to figure out what that means. You said wolves were exterminated in the lower 48 states, which is not true, plenty of them never left Michigan and Minnesota. You said Alaska has more deer and elk that the lower 48, also not true. You said your USDA source told you he shot cougars from a helicopter, which is NOT permitted. You doubt many kills are barely eaten by wolves and say that is far fetched, see link above for lots of barely eaten wolf kills. You say you are far from a liberal environmentalist, yet you seem to share their thinking about hunting ("If there are no elk left for hunters to hunt because wolves have eaten them, then more power to the wolves") You claimed that Polar Bears are in decline, a position of the enviro community, in spite of the FACT that Polar bears are increasing their populations to historical highs in almost every area they live. You claimed sheep are so dumb they just stand there while they are attacked. I used to own a herd of sheep, so I agree they are dumb, but i assure you they don't just stand there while they are killed, they are just totally defenseless and can't outrun a wolf. The Snopes link you provided never disputed the size of the wolves, only where they were taken. know the next to the bottom photo is in Idaho near Salmon, ID. Yes, we have VERY BIG wolves, that photo is NOT faked. USDA Wildlife Services used to be called Animal Damage Control, and their primary mission is to eliminate/reduce populations of pest animals, typically things like coyotes. Wolves and other T&E species are managed by the US Fish & Wildlife Service, a branch of the Department of Interior, and with a mission totally opposite USDA Wildlife Services. Often there are major conflcits between these federal agencies, and very little coordination. Big game is managed by state wildlife agencies, with a totally different mission from either of the federal agencies.
Wolf re-introduction in Idaho has been successful beyond all expectations. We have close to 1,000 wolves now, and they have greatly expanded their range. Wolves have migrated beyond Idaho, Montana, and Wyoming into Oregon, Washington, California, Nevada, Utah, and Colorado so far. BTW, there were similar "rumors" of secret wolf plants nears Stanley, ID back about 1995. Interestingly, Stanley has several large wolf packs today and not nearly as many elk, deer, or moose.
One of the dangers of wolf reintroduction to our sport is the potential for restrictions on motorized access to minimize disturbance and conflicts. If there is an issue, OHV gets thrown out. For example, reintroduced Grizzlies resulted in closure of hundreds of miles of roads and trails in Idaho. Many trails are closed either during hunting season or early summer to "minimize disturbance". This is in spite of the fact that there is not a single study that has proven OHV use has had any impact whatsoever on population trends or viability. So, we can't "scare" elk by riding by, but it is okay to let wolves chase them 24/7/365 until they kill them. That is okay because it is "natural". Just like the forest fires ravaging Idaho's forests right now, that is okay because it is natural, even though the result is massive wildlife kills and huge amounts of large scale erosion, while a rutted trail is NOT acceptable for motorized use, regardless of what actually causes the erosion, usually poor design and a lack of maintenance.
As for danger to humans, the threat from wolves is pretty low. Documented actual attacks are pretty rare, but there have been quite a few reports of wolves stalking humans. A couple of years ago, a group of Forest Service "ologists" were on an overnight hike into the Sawtooth Wilderness and got so scared of a pack of wolves stalking them that they called for a helicopter to come and get them. Threats to humans is not the big problem
The big problem with the re-introduction of wolves in Idaho is that it has resulted in the decimation of deer, elk, and moose populations here in Idaho. According to the Chairman of the Idaho Fish & Game Commission, the Lolo herd, has crashed from a historical average of about 12,000 down to about 2,500. The Yellowstone herd has dropped from 20,000 to 6,500. The Gallatin Valley herd in Montana dropped from 1,500 to 200 in 3 years. Deer and moose herds have also severely declined where wolves are present. Cuurent Elk cow/calf ratios are at the lowest level on record. Predation losss currently exceed the ability of herds to recruit adequate numbers of calves into adulthood to restore historical population numbers. Even with the restoration of wolf hunting this year, not enough wolves will be killed to bring back a balance, as hunter success rates are very low. Now, the question of hunting big game is another debate, but it is clear that Wolves have had a major negative impact on big game herds, far beyond hunting, which is MANAGED to sustain population levels
Wolf advocates will try to tell you that Wolves only kill the old and the infirm, culling out the weakest and allegedly improving the health of the herds. Supposedly, they only kill enough to survive, with no "sport kills". Here is a link to a website that has documented many, many sport kills by wolves: http://www.saveelk.com/wolf_002.htm
Finchfan, I am puzzled why you are so invested in this thread. You have made a lot of statements that are simply not true, I will leave it to you to figure out what that means. You said wolves were exterminated in the lower 48 states, which is not true, plenty of them never left Michigan and Minnesota. You said Alaska has more deer and elk that the lower 48, also not true. You said your USDA source told you he shot cougars from a helicopter, which is NOT permitted. You doubt many kills are barely eaten by wolves and say that is far fetched, see link above for lots of barely eaten wolf kills. You say you are far from a liberal environmentalist, yet you seem to share their thinking about hunting ("If there are no elk left for hunters to hunt because wolves have eaten them, then more power to the wolves") You claimed that Polar Bears are in decline, a position of the enviro community, in spite of the FACT that Polar bears are increasing their populations to historical highs in almost every area they live. You claimed sheep are so dumb they just stand there while they are attacked. I used to own a herd of sheep, so I agree they are dumb, but i assure you they don't just stand there while they are killed, they are just totally defenseless and can't outrun a wolf. The Snopes link you provided never disputed the size of the wolves, only where they were taken. know the next to the bottom photo is in Idaho near Salmon, ID. Yes, we have VERY BIG wolves, that photo is NOT faked. USDA Wildlife Services used to be called Animal Damage Control, and their primary mission is to eliminate/reduce populations of pest animals, typically things like coyotes. Wolves and other T&E species are managed by the US Fish & Wildlife Service, a branch of the Department of Interior, and with a mission totally opposite USDA Wildlife Services. Often there are major conflcits between these federal agencies, and very little coordination. Big game is managed by state wildlife agencies, with a totally different mission from either of the federal agencies.
Wolf re-introduction in Idaho has been successful beyond all expectations. We have close to 1,000 wolves now, and they have greatly expanded their range. Wolves have migrated beyond Idaho, Montana, and Wyoming into Oregon, Washington, California, Nevada, Utah, and Colorado so far. BTW, there were similar "rumors" of secret wolf plants nears Stanley, ID back about 1995. Interestingly, Stanley has several large wolf packs today and not nearly as many elk, deer, or moose.
One of the dangers of wolf reintroduction to our sport is the potential for restrictions on motorized access to minimize disturbance and conflicts. If there is an issue, OHV gets thrown out. For example, reintroduced Grizzlies resulted in closure of hundreds of miles of roads and trails in Idaho. Many trails are closed either during hunting season or early summer to "minimize disturbance". This is in spite of the fact that there is not a single study that has proven OHV use has had any impact whatsoever on population trends or viability. So, we can't "scare" elk by riding by, but it is okay to let wolves chase them 24/7/365 until they kill them. That is okay because it is "natural". Just like the forest fires ravaging Idaho's forests right now, that is okay because it is natural, even though the result is massive wildlife kills and huge amounts of large scale erosion, while a rutted trail is NOT acceptable for motorized use, regardless of what actually causes the erosion, usually poor design and a lack of maintenance.
2796 posts
Location: Washington
Posted 14 August 2012 - 01:01 PM
Lots of interesting points, I will try to go over you beef with me.
1. I said they were basically exterminated, which they BASICALLY were compared to what wolf populations use to be
2. As far as the helicopter thing I was going off a different conversation I had with him when he was telling me about a lot of things he had done and I mentioned the helicopter thing along with a list of other things he may have done to him and he said he has done it all. Maybe he misunderstood me at the time.
3. Show me proof where someone has shot a larger than 150# Canadian wolf, you can't other than some story made up on another forum
4. What I meant about Alaska is per square mile there is a LOT more wildlife such as deer, elk, moose or whatever than on average in the lower 48. I assume certain areas of Montana and possibly Wyoming would be the exception to that.
5. I am in no way a liberal, I am far from it, I just wish stupid liberals and other politicians would let nature do its own thing. Ultimately I don't think wolves should be planted anywhere in the lower 48 unless they are native wolves, however I am under the assumption that the only wolves in the NW part of our country are Candian Wolves? Is that a correct assumption?
Look I like a good debate and there was some good talk in this thread until some clown came in here calling me a liar. Why would I lie I have no agenda, just wanted some good debating and some good conversation.
1. I said they were basically exterminated, which they BASICALLY were compared to what wolf populations use to be
2. As far as the helicopter thing I was going off a different conversation I had with him when he was telling me about a lot of things he had done and I mentioned the helicopter thing along with a list of other things he may have done to him and he said he has done it all. Maybe he misunderstood me at the time.
3. Show me proof where someone has shot a larger than 150# Canadian wolf, you can't other than some story made up on another forum
4. What I meant about Alaska is per square mile there is a LOT more wildlife such as deer, elk, moose or whatever than on average in the lower 48. I assume certain areas of Montana and possibly Wyoming would be the exception to that.
5. I am in no way a liberal, I am far from it, I just wish stupid liberals and other politicians would let nature do its own thing. Ultimately I don't think wolves should be planted anywhere in the lower 48 unless they are native wolves, however I am under the assumption that the only wolves in the NW part of our country are Candian Wolves? Is that a correct assumption?
Look I like a good debate and there was some good talk in this thread until some clown came in here calling me a liar. Why would I lie I have no agenda, just wanted some good debating and some good conversation.
2796 posts
Location: Washington
Posted 14 August 2012 - 01:10 PM
Also about the USDA, you are correct he said he mainly terminates coyotes in urban areas.
941 posts
Location: Idaho
Posted 14 August 2012 - 05:04 PM
I just went back and reread every one of FinchFan's posts in this thread. Very misinformed, lots of back pedaling. Claiming he didn't say what he clearly said. I don't know if he is a liar, but he is certainly lying in this thread.
962 posts
Location: Washington
Posted 14 August 2012 - 07:11 PM
dkenck, on 05 July 2012 - 10:26 AM, said:
It's not the wolves. It's the mountain goats!
http://mynorthwest.c...ats-pose-threat
Not to make light of an animal attack, but mountain goats kicking hikers off their trails just seem like poetic justice to me.
later
danny
http://mynorthwest.c...ats-pose-threat
Not to make light of an animal attack, but mountain goats kicking hikers off their trails just seem like poetic justice to me.
later
danny
The guy that died was a friend of a friend of mine. He got in the way of the goat so the other two people could get away safely and was gored to death. Stay classy dude.
View GaragePosted 14 August 2012 - 07:18 PM
Wonderspoon, on 14 August 2012 - 07:11 PM, said:
was gored to death.
was he gored? i thought i remembered that the goat knocked him off a ledge and he fell.
bummer either way.
962 posts
Location: Washington
Posted 14 August 2012 - 07:21 PM
Gored through the thigh and bled out. My buddy who knows the guy was actually on the wonderland with me. That's why its fresh in my mind.
Edited by Wonderspoon, 14 August 2012 - 07:22 PM.
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