Right,

This is hypothetical at the moment, but I'm thinking about another bike this year if my funds allow.

My first and only trials bike to date is a Montesa 315r. My reasons for buying that particular model were simple - I asked lots of people for their opinion with a simple brief - name a solid, reliable trials bike.

However, like many people (certainly over here), if you say trials bike, you say GasGas very shortly afterwards and that was the bike I fancied but was warned off with tails of woe, poor build quality etc, You know the score.

So, a few years have gone by and I've seen Gassers improve (at least to my untrained eye) and seemingly give less trouble than they perhaps once did.

But, I have no clue as to specific models over the years so my question to you, my learned friends is this;

Which Gasser for me?

A couple of years old-ish,

I'm 210lbs, 45 years old, very childish and juvenile, so do spend some time tearing around like an idiot.... I'm not an accomplished trials rider at all. I also have no ego, so do not demand the biggest, brightest, most powerful etc.

I believe in having the right tool for the job.

Your opinions please

Easy.  Buy the newest and best condition bike you can afford.

Broad strokes = 06 and newer is really pretty good. Round Tubed frames would be the next step up. 250 would be ideal.

3whlrcr, on 21 June 2012 - 02:26 PM, said:

This.

I would look for one with the steel tube frame (or are they even steel? ) Steel won't tend to crack like an aluminum one over the years of abuse... Of course, that said, I have yet to see a crack in on my 315's frame. I totally dig the way the new GGs look though... Of course nothing will ever be as beautiful as one of those Repsol 4RTs

TwoBobRob, on 21 June 2012 - 12:47 PM, said:

What exactly is the job at hand?

762SPR, on 21 June 2012 - 04:04 PM, said:

So what Trials bikes have you seen with broken aluminum frames?

I've seen several broken frames, all steel as I recall.

Edited by moto vita, 21 June 2012 - 04:40 PM.

TwoBobRob, on 21 June 2012 - 12:47 PM, said:

Given the above statement, why buy a new bike? The 315r is a fine machine and should be plenty good enough for a rider like you describe. I have a 2002 Scorpa that is currently better than me (this is my 2nd year riding). I'm always sort of thinking of what I might buy next, but I don't really know when I'll buy. i'm curious what drives you to be ready for a change other than "cool factor" - which for the record is a perfectly valid reason!

moto vita, on 21 June 2012 - 04:37 PM, said:

The only recent AL frames breaks that I recall were the early 09 Beta's. (the 1st Gen Evo) Beta handled it by giving all affected owners a new frame right away. Very professional. Maybe this is what 762 was referring to and turned him off. I do agree, that the current AL designs seem very well sorted and robust and think the super thin walled steel frames may be more susceptible to damage, but that is rare. I think the failures are usually related to someone doing something they really shouldnt. I think the cast AL swingarms are more popular victims as they take quite a beating and any casting defect will prove catastrophic and are very hard to detect if internal. (I doubt they xray them - but dont know)  All in all, I think most of the current designs that have been out for more than a year, are very reliable. I would ride any of them with confidence. (as I think you were eluding to as well)

motojunky, on 21 June 2012 - 05:06 PM, said:

For no reason other than I fancy a change. Oh, and as per my first post - I fancied one originally.

You're right of course, my 315r is more than good enough and I have no complaints with it at all. In fact, it won't be sold. It'll become a loan bike for my friends.

moto vita, on 21 June 2012 - 04:35 PM, said:

What I mean by that is I'll take the word of folk more experienced than me. If I'm told for example a 250 pro of a certain year is a good machine for a novice and heavy lad then so be it.

Or if the advice is stay away from blah blah, look out for a blah blah, I shall follow it.

I should have been more specific. I wasn't thinking particularly of any trials frame that brakes allot. I was just saying as a material in general, if you flex both a little bit repeatedly, aluminum will crack and steel won't. It may be millions or billions of cycles, but eventually aluminum will crack even from the slightest flex. The particular engineering term escapes me right now, but steel has a certain flex that you can cycle indefinitely without damage. I guess trials bikes are designed with enough tolerance so it isn't an issue, or perhaps the aluminum frames haven't been around for long enough for it to be an issue YET. Are the tube frame GG bikes made from aluminum?

Sorry for dragging the thread off topic. I was just running my mouth because frame damage and frame building is fresh on my mind. I just recently finished making this for my street bike so I can stunt it without snapping the engine mounts and neck off! Unlike trials bikes, this is not the intended use for street bikes so it would make sense that the designs don't accommodate the forces and they break.

GG tubes are high carbon steel and have very high ultimate strength.

Fatigue resistance is a very complex subject - just ask any railroad engineer... Like any engineering problem, there can be many creative solutions - Hence the popularity of both AL and Steel frames across many motorcycle manufacturers of all types.

Fatigue stress, that's what I was looking for!


On the subject of all that. Due to the mass differences compared to the tensile strength of steel vs. aluminum (and most other metals, with some exceptions such as beryllium) if you are designing with your primary constraints being strength and weight, it doesn't really matter the material. Even though aluminum is lighter, for a given strength (as a general term) you need more of it to match the same strength in steel. That's why when a particular bike switches over to aluminum from a steel frame the weight difference usually only amounts to ordering a super sized big mac instead of a small one before going out riding. I think the main reason everyone is switching to aluminum frames is for manufacturing and marketing.

Sorry again for the derail, I guess I can't help myself...

TwoBobRob, on 22 June 2012 - 07:43 AM, said:

I would say you allready have an excellent bike for novice level Trials. However I fully understand the desire for a different, younger model.
Perhaps the best thing would be to find a Gas Gas thats been set up for a lower level rider, rather than the typical expert level bike that is found on the used market, or a smaller displacement Gas Gas, like a 200.

Alrighty. So in keeping with my original post, is there a particular year that was good for the 200? Or one to avoid?

If you are a large guy, I would go with a 280. I have a 2005 280 Pro. I have had NO problems with it. Got it new in 05 and i has a lot of rides on it. I have owned GGs since 2001 and would not buy any other brand.

Twang

I don't think trading in your 315 for a 200 would be a step forward... Honestly, I would stick with the montesa. I've attempted (and even pulled off some!) some more advanced tricks, and I've never felt limited by the bike even though it might be a little older or heavier than others. It's also a really solidly built bike so it can take the hard hits of learning.

If you really want something newer, I would think another 250 or a 280 would be good, that way you wouldn't be limited as you advance and end up needing to get ANOTHER bike...

TwoBobRob, on 21 June 2012 - 12:47 PM, said:

Twobob,

Here's a synopsis of your question, but in analogy to other sports, hopefully it will explain why it matters...

"Hey Mario Andretti, I am wanting a race car, but I am not racing, which one of these Indy cars would be the best for my needs?"
or
" Hey Doc, I don't have any cancer that I know of, but wish to start out with some Chemo Therapy, should I go with the 80gama solution, or a pill?"
or
"hey Bubba Stewart, I want to get me a motorcycle to ride, you cannnot possibly know what I plan to do with any motorcycle really, I mean I don't know if I would enter a race or not...  But what bike do you think would be best for me?"

If you were going to ride "TRIALS" then just like any other sport, would you not want to at least be using the same, relatively most up to date equipment?  

Our point is, that older bike might fit your needs better than new bikes, since new bikes have less fuel capasity, and are lighter and less and less capable to being ridden like a "dirt bike" in my humble opinion.

TO me, if you arent going to compete in trials, getting the newest trials bike, well, It would almost be analogous to spending a bunch of money on a really nice pool cue, to instead - play softball.  You can do it, with varying success I am sure.

Gasgas vs any make, will start fights around the internet.  I personally love all the gasgas bikes I have owned, be buy a new one every other year.  have had them since 1999.  I have older models I keep that I didnt buy new.  I rode a 98 montessa 315 or 314 I cannot recall now.  That got me to finally move off of a vintage 1979 Sherpa-T I had since it was more or less new, and go modern with a used 99 gasgas 321, Ill never look back.  Montessa's arent being imported to the USA as far as I know, there are OSSA, Beta, SHerco, and Gasgas.  I think you can buy a Montessa from canada though.  I am not sure since i wont ride a 4 stroke anyhow, if I dont have to.

your mileage will vary.

Edited by sting32, 25 June 2012 - 12:25 PM.

Blimey.....

Didn't expect to receive comments like this from such an innocent question.

Sting, I've owned my Mont for around six years now. I ride reasonably regularly at a private trials facility and may or may not choose to compete locally, as is my wish.

I want to buy a Gasser. I have asked the opinion of the forum regarding years & models. That is all. This isn't a GasGas vs other make question.

Had someone have asked "which Montesa for me"  I would have answered "fundamentally the same 98-2003, made some suspension and brake changes in 01, buy the nicest one you can find"

You could do the same, as you clearly have a broad experience of Gassers having owned them since 99. Instead, you choose to make sarcastic remarks including one about cancer, which if you knew anything about me or my family you would know to be in extremely poor judgement.

It saddens me that because according to you I'm not a committed trials rider (whatever that is), I somehow shouldn't want (or deserve, even?) a different brand, or a newer model bike.

It would appear my comment "tearing round like an idiot" has struck a nerve with you. I own a property in the French Alps and in summertime I go over there and ride up in the mountains. The opportunity is there to ride some open trails - something I can't do at my local spot, so I have the chance to see 4th & 5th occasionally. Forgive me for exercising my bike every once in a while.

I dont think there is any year in particular to stay away from other than a few 02 pro's (1st year for the model) that had frame and tranny problems. The 06's had a nice clutch mod over the previous models. The 2009s went with the 1st gen round tube frame and turned alittle better than the oval tubed. 2010 came out with the 2 pc head that takes different inserts. (Im not a huge fan) The 2011's came out with the beefier - stiffer frame that enhanced stability, and had a few nice features such as a DID style rear wheel. The 2011's also claim to improve kickstart pawl reliability (just kick it right and your OK on any of them) The 2012's switched to formula - top riders prefer the AJP's as they are a bit stronger. Looks like GG is switching back to AJP for the 2012 Raga - so maybe on the 2013 std bikes as well.

Really nothing sticks out to me for any particular year other than 02. In general, the bikes seem more and more refined every year. The newer bikes are very easy to ride and seem much smoother to me than the 02-05 time frame bikes.

If your trail riding at altitude, the 300 is a better choice than my previous 250 recommendation. Nothing beats lugging a 300 along in 4th gear and just snapping a power wheelie at will. Of course, that's a liability for most in the event sections.

FOLKS; People want what they want when they want them. I say good for them! I agree with the OP, he should not have to take any of our guff over a simple question like what GG to avoid.  Sorry for that TwoBobRob. There - im climbing off my pulpit now.....