Aussies get to have all the fun! I have to admit I've never been a Yamaha guy...but that has to be one of the coolest motorcycle commercials I have ever seen!
Why can't yamaha import a bike like this to the USA?!
Started by
Bigoldbeef
, Jun 17 2012 05:24 PM
66 replies to this topic
Posted 03 July 2012 - 06:31 PM
mauricedorris, on 18 June 2012 - 09:24 AM, said:
In california, Yamaha already sells tons of wr450's that are not plated. Why change what's working.
If it's all about selling tons of bikes and they do sell (according to you) tons of non plated 450's in California
I would think that sales #'s would dramatically increase if they offered the same bike with a plate. I realize that it
would cost more to produce but I don't see how it wouldn't be profitable for them given the bs that's already going on
with our diminishing trail systems having a plated dirt bike makes it so much easier to ride in general.
BTW, I'll take my TE511 over one of those fruity orange thingy's any old day.
Posted 04 July 2012 - 08:47 AM
Who knows what goes on in the minds at Yamaha (and Honda, Kawasaki, Suzuki) in their SoCal marketing head quarters. There are so many great bikes sent to Europe and the rest of the world. I've been by a told by a Honda dealer, there really is little interest in motorcycles that don't look like road racers or choppers.
My first motorcycle was a Yamaha ct175 back in 1974. Great first bike. I owned a Honda MT250 and it was a Luke warm street bike. For over 30 years we have asked the Big 4 to make a dual sport based on a real dirt bike. Until 2004, the solution in California was to make your own, which I did. The only new bike I ever owned is an XR400R. Now, the only solution is a $9000+ KTM, Husky, or a 250.
I read that Yamaha looked into making a street legal 450, but the emissions goal was too high a hurdle. Perhaps with FI it could be done.
The EPA has done wonderful things to clean up the environment. Unfortunately, it price is a monolithic agency that sometimes can't or wont allow exceptions that would cause a little more pollution on paper, but less pollution in reality. I would rather ride my bike to local riding areas than haul it there with a V8 powered truck. Unfortunately, Myth Busters just showed that while lower in some pollutants, catylitic equipped cars are lower per mile.
The paradox is either there a so few dual sport riders that the EPA should ignore the, which means the market is too small for Yamaha. Or there are a lot of dual sport bikes to be sold.
Don't forget the other factor, maintenance. An XR based dual sport would fare well with the average owner. Having to change the oil often and keep an eye on the valves might not fare so well. If you buy a KTM or Husky, you probably sought out the bike and know what you are getting into. BIG 4 dealers have newbies walking in to buy 100+ HP road rockets.
My first motorcycle was a Yamaha ct175 back in 1974. Great first bike. I owned a Honda MT250 and it was a Luke warm street bike. For over 30 years we have asked the Big 4 to make a dual sport based on a real dirt bike. Until 2004, the solution in California was to make your own, which I did. The only new bike I ever owned is an XR400R. Now, the only solution is a $9000+ KTM, Husky, or a 250.
I read that Yamaha looked into making a street legal 450, but the emissions goal was too high a hurdle. Perhaps with FI it could be done.
The EPA has done wonderful things to clean up the environment. Unfortunately, it price is a monolithic agency that sometimes can't or wont allow exceptions that would cause a little more pollution on paper, but less pollution in reality. I would rather ride my bike to local riding areas than haul it there with a V8 powered truck. Unfortunately, Myth Busters just showed that while lower in some pollutants, catylitic equipped cars are lower per mile.
The paradox is either there a so few dual sport riders that the EPA should ignore the, which means the market is too small for Yamaha. Or there are a lot of dual sport bikes to be sold.
Don't forget the other factor, maintenance. An XR based dual sport would fare well with the average owner. Having to change the oil often and keep an eye on the valves might not fare so well. If you buy a KTM or Husky, you probably sought out the bike and know what you are getting into. BIG 4 dealers have newbies walking in to buy 100+ HP road rockets.
Posted 07 July 2012 - 11:33 AM
I know I'm supposed to outraged by the EPA not allowing us to do or have whatever we want, but that doesn't apply in this situation.
Yamaha sells a similar bike in Europe, where the regulations are at least as onerous as here. Yamaha sells a 250 dual sport here which is very similar to what a 450 would be.
They don't sell it because they don't think it would be profitable.
Profit, money, it's a corporation. Decisions are made about those things, not because of a conspiracy to keep us from having fun.
http://www.yamaha-mo...95/0/specs.aspx
Yamaha sells a similar bike in Europe, where the regulations are at least as onerous as here. Yamaha sells a 250 dual sport here which is very similar to what a 450 would be.
They don't sell it because they don't think it would be profitable.
Profit, money, it's a corporation. Decisions are made about those things, not because of a conspiracy to keep us from having fun.
http://www.yamaha-mo...95/0/specs.aspx
Posted 11 July 2012 - 12:39 AM
You epa koolaid drinkers need to watch this:
Unced "unsaid" 1992 UN earth summit. This is what the environmental movement is really about. The "UNCED" truth. The wormhole goes deep.. Follow the money. Look at the back of your dollar bill and tell me what everything means. THEN lecture us with your infinite wisdom. This video is OLD. This topic is so old... I have since studied other things. Do your own research
Unced "unsaid" 1992 UN earth summit. This is what the environmental movement is really about. The "UNCED" truth. The wormhole goes deep.. Follow the money. Look at the back of your dollar bill and tell me what everything means. THEN lecture us with your infinite wisdom. This video is OLD. This topic is so old... I have since studied other things. Do your own research
Posted 11 July 2012 - 07:49 AM
Goggles Pisano, on 20 June 2012 - 03:20 PM, said:
We get it. Some of you love the EPA so much that you just can't resist being cheerleaders for them and are willing to completely ignore the fact that they are the precise reason "Why can't yamaha import a bike like this to the USA?!"
You know, the topic of this thread?
Don't hate the messenger for bringing the truth.
You know, the topic of this thread?
Don't hate the messenger for bringing the truth.
Pot = Kettle
Posted 11 July 2012 - 07:50 AM
Steve Sturdevant, on 07 July 2012 - 11:33 AM, said:
I know I'm supposed to outraged by the EPA not allowing us to do or have whatever we want, but that doesn't apply in this situation.
Yamaha sells a similar bike in Europe, where the regulations are at least as onerous as here. Yamaha sells a 250 dual sport here which is very similar to what a 450 would be.
They don't sell it because they don't think it would be profitable.
Profit, money, it's a corporation. Decisions are made about those things, not because of a conspiracy to keep us from having fun.
http://www.yamaha-mo...95/0/specs.aspx
Yamaha sells a similar bike in Europe, where the regulations are at least as onerous as here. Yamaha sells a 250 dual sport here which is very similar to what a 450 would be.
They don't sell it because they don't think it would be profitable.
Profit, money, it's a corporation. Decisions are made about those things, not because of a conspiracy to keep us from having fun.
http://www.yamaha-mo...95/0/specs.aspx
Don't you know it's all a conspiracy with the EPA, the liberals and the commies? LOL
Posted 11 July 2012 - 08:52 AM
The regulations in Europe are just as onerous, but not the same. I deal with this on heavy equipment quite often - the equipment we run over there isn't clean enough to run over here, and the equipment we run over here isn't clean enough to run over there.
Just because both the US and Europe have onerous environmental regs doesn't mean that it's easy to build one vehicle that conforms to both standards.
Whether this makes any sense or not is a completely different issue, but when somebody says "if they can make it legal over there, then they can make it legal over here"..... they are generally wrong.
Just because both the US and Europe have onerous environmental regs doesn't mean that it's easy to build one vehicle that conforms to both standards.
Whether this makes any sense or not is a completely different issue, but when somebody says "if they can make it legal over there, then they can make it legal over here"..... they are generally wrong.
Posted 11 July 2012 - 08:54 AM
Steve Sturdevant, on 07 July 2012 - 11:33 AM, said:
I know I'm supposed to outraged by the EPA not allowing us to do or have whatever we want, but that doesn't apply in this situation.
Yamaha sells a similar bike in Europe, where the regulations are at least as onerous as here. Yamaha sells a 250 dual sport here which is very similar to what a 450 would be.
They don't sell it because they don't think it would be profitable.
Profit, money, it's a corporation. Decisions are made about those things, not because of a conspiracy to keep us from having fun.
http://www.yamaha-mo...95/0/specs.aspx
Yamaha sells a similar bike in Europe, where the regulations are at least as onerous as here. Yamaha sells a 250 dual sport here which is very similar to what a 450 would be.
They don't sell it because they don't think it would be profitable.
Profit, money, it's a corporation. Decisions are made about those things, not because of a conspiracy to keep us from having fun.
http://www.yamaha-mo...95/0/specs.aspx
You are aware that the WR250R is absolutely not related to the WR250F, right? If they did the same thing to create a WR450R, it would be in the same class as the DR650 and XR650l, admittedly at the top of that class, but not in the same league as the WR450F.
Posted 12 July 2012 - 02:05 PM
jqueen, on 11 July 2012 - 08:54 AM, said:
You are aware that the WR250R is absolutely not related to the WR250F, right? If they did the same thing to create a WR450R, it would be in the same class as the DR650 and XR650l, admittedly at the top of that class, but not in the same league as the WR450F.
I still say that they don't sell it because Yamaha doesn't think sales will justify the expense of development. But it could be done.
Posted 12 July 2012 - 04:09 PM
TBird1, on 19 June 2012 - 06:33 PM, said:
Listen to yourself. No middle ground? THAT finger can be pointed in any number of directions. I happen to like clean air. Clean water, too. I own three bikes. Only the newest one has EFI and a cat-con and has an exhaust that doesn't smell like it would kill you. If I was the enviro-nazi that you think I am, I wouldn't be riding AT ALL since that wastes resources. I like technology. I like progress. I really like riding. I like that all these things can mesh together. I'd like to see if direct-injection can revive the 2-strokes.
Sorry, but your right to pollute ends when it reaches my family. Get used to it. With 6 billion people on the planet there isn't as much elbow room as there used to be, but there IS a lot more pollution. I find it amazing that people who spend time off-road, in the wilderness, are not more attuned to nature. Why would you want to harm it? Maybe you're riding so fast, you missed it.
As to the car vs. bike analogy, that is a meaningless academic exercise. For a lot of reasons, most people will never ride two wheels. We are a minority. You (CRM114) may be right that total MC pollution is negligible, but on a per-vehicle basis it may actually be worse. It depends upon the comparison vehicle. Be that as it may, it is downright juvenile to believe that we are somehow exempt from pollution laws while Aunt Emma's Camry has to conform. Where is the justification for motorsports being a favored class? Anyone? We all have to do our part. Our actual sacrifice is minimal.
Sorry, but your right to pollute ends when it reaches my family. Get used to it. With 6 billion people on the planet there isn't as much elbow room as there used to be, but there IS a lot more pollution. I find it amazing that people who spend time off-road, in the wilderness, are not more attuned to nature. Why would you want to harm it? Maybe you're riding so fast, you missed it.
As to the car vs. bike analogy, that is a meaningless academic exercise. For a lot of reasons, most people will never ride two wheels. We are a minority. You (CRM114) may be right that total MC pollution is negligible, but on a per-vehicle basis it may actually be worse. It depends upon the comparison vehicle. Be that as it may, it is downright juvenile to believe that we are somehow exempt from pollution laws while Aunt Emma's Camry has to conform. Where is the justification for motorsports being a favored class? Anyone? We all have to do our part. Our actual sacrifice is minimal.
Do you get the irony that you're riding around an emissions-spewing vehicle for fun? If you were serious about that clean air, you'd sell those bikes and stay off the road unless absolutely necessary. Until you do that, your blathering is meaningless.
Posted 14 July 2012 - 11:40 AM
swingset, on 12 July 2012 - 04:09 PM, said:
Do you get the irony that you're riding around an emissions-spewing vehicle for fun? If you were serious about that clean air, you'd sell those bikes and stay off the road unless absolutely necessary. Until you do that, your blathering is meaningless.
We've been a petro economy for the last 100 years. To transition to something else, whatever it may be, will take time. I still have to live in the society that we've made for ourselves. Given my resources, I do the best that I can. My play bike is also my 70 MPG commuter bike. It meets modern emissions regulations. The basis for this discussion was an off-road, non-EPA bike vs. a clean, modern EPA dual-sport alternative. Nice of you a try to frame the resulting argument with an absolutist, black or white, us vs. them mentality but that is not the reality. We just do the best that we can, as should we all. We owe it to our kids, and their kids. If that is blather, then YOU, sir, are the meaningless one.
Posted 14 July 2012 - 12:13 PM
You guys are wasting your time with the likes of Tbird. When he used that phrase "just listen to yourself" he instantly and knowingly diminished all of you who disagree. Kinda like speaking down to a child. Its an old tactic of those who are meaning to make you aware they are superior and looking down from above. Get out on your bikes and ride, he is not worth your time.
Posted 20 July 2012 - 12:31 PM
ANYway....
They might bring it over in 2014... I know they changed nothing on the '13 Yamaha's, but Yamaha was making bold promises of an "all-new" nature to try and sign Dean Wilson this summer. I expect there's a ton of R&D money that's already been spent under the tuning fork sign and we'll get to see it in the next year or so
They might bring it over in 2014... I know they changed nothing on the '13 Yamaha's, but Yamaha was making bold promises of an "all-new" nature to try and sign Dean Wilson this summer. I expect there's a ton of R&D money that's already been spent under the tuning fork sign and we'll get to see it in the next year or so
Posted 20 July 2012 - 02:23 PM
ColorMeGone, on 14 July 2012 - 11:40 AM, said:
We've been a petro economy for the last 100 years. To transition to something else, whatever it may be, will take time. I still have to live in the society that we've made for ourselves. Given my resources, I do the best that I can. My play bike is also my 70 MPG commuter bike. It meets modern emissions regulations. The basis for this discussion was an off-road, non-EPA bike vs. a clean, modern EPA dual-sport alternative. Nice of you a try to frame the resulting argument with an absolutist, black or white, us vs. them mentality but that is not the reality. We just do the best that we can, as should we all. We owe it to our kids, and their kids. If that is blather, then YOU, sir, are the meaningless one.
Don't dance around it. You want to have two truths. The earth is important and all that clean air is justification for draconian restrictions on bikes, which account for a tiny blip of the daily pollution on our roads...but when it comes down to it you want to still have your bike and play. If you think you're the perfectly balanced, reasonable one, realize a lot of people on the liberal, earth-loving side of this believe you riding around offroad on an emissions-spewing bike is wrong, shouldn't be allowed, and you're in their ring swinging right along with them. They would gladly swing the gavel and have all of us shut out of public lands and legislated away.
Posted 22 July 2012 - 12:26 PM
ColorMeGone, on 19 June 2012 - 06:33 PM, said:
Listen to yourself. No middle ground? THAT finger can be pointed in any number of directions. I happen to like clean air. Clean water, too. I own three bikes. Only the newest one has EFI and a cat-con and has an exhaust that doesn't smell like it would kill you. If I was the enviro-nazi that you think I am, I wouldn't be riding AT ALL since that wastes resources. I like technology. I like progress. I really like riding. I like that all these things can mesh together. I'd like to see if direct-injection can revive the 2-strokes.
Sorry, but your right to pollute ends when it reaches my family. Get used to it. With 6 billion people on the planet there isn't as much elbow room as there used to be, but there IS a lot more pollution. I find it amazing that people who spend time off-road, in the wilderness, are not more attuned to nature. Why would you want to harm it? Maybe you're riding so fast, you missed it.
As to the car vs. bike analogy, that is a meaningless academic exercise. For a lot of reasons, most people will never ride two wheels. We are a minority. You (CRM114) may be right that total MC pollution is negligible, but on a per-vehicle basis it may actually be worse. It depends upon the comparison vehicle. Be that as it may, it is downright juvenile to believe that we are somehow exempt from pollution laws while Aunt Emma's Camry has to conform. Where is the justification for motorsports being a favored class? Anyone? We all have to do our part. Our actual sacrifice is minimal.
Sorry, but your right to pollute ends when it reaches my family. Get used to it. With 6 billion people on the planet there isn't as much elbow room as there used to be, but there IS a lot more pollution. I find it amazing that people who spend time off-road, in the wilderness, are not more attuned to nature. Why would you want to harm it? Maybe you're riding so fast, you missed it.
As to the car vs. bike analogy, that is a meaningless academic exercise. For a lot of reasons, most people will never ride two wheels. We are a minority. You (CRM114) may be right that total MC pollution is negligible, but on a per-vehicle basis it may actually be worse. It depends upon the comparison vehicle. Be that as it may, it is downright juvenile to believe that we are somehow exempt from pollution laws while Aunt Emma's Camry has to conform. Where is the justification for motorsports being a favored class? Anyone? We all have to do our part. Our actual sacrifice is minimal.
I'm all for clean air and water too but there's a point where spending hundreds of millions on a tiny fraction is ludicrous. From an engineering standpoint it generally costs as much to deal with the last 1% of something as it does with the first 99%. Our government tends to go after the 1% rather than dealing with much of the 99%. It's what happens when you have clueless people running things.
Posted 12 November 2012 - 10:39 AM
mauricedorris, on 18 June 2012 - 09:24 AM, said:
If it doesn't make dollars, it doesn't make cents (pun intended)
In california, Yamaha already sells tons of wr450's that are not plated. Why change what's working.
In california, Yamaha already sells tons of wr450's that are not plated. Why change what's working.
They won't sell a WR to me, and a lot of other people for that very reason.
And that's why I paid extra to buy this. Similar bike, but it's street legal in 50 states. End of story. I'll never buy another Japanese bike(dual sport) until they get their head out of their ass...or sell the to the last customer interested in an under powered 300 lb. + bike.
