I am also an owner of a street legal 450 exc (05 RFS) and also a street legalized crf250x. I completely agree with Mr. Blahh on what a dual sport is. they should be fully off road/ occasional motocross capable and street legal. I dont understand why everyone complains about how they handle horrible on the street. Ive ridden cruisers a little and its like driving a tank, the EXC is way more fun, light and maneuverable on the street. The only thing that the dual sport I describe lacks is a little bit of the smooth ride due to riding knobbys, and the wheel vibration from rim locks going over 60mph.

Also the EXC i have does not have any significant motor vibration

Wild Alaskan, on 19 July 2012 - 08:15 PM, said:

I think you lost your point right there; motocross capable and street legal?  I don't think you could get further apart in terms of bike design by saying something should be motorcross cabable and be able to run down the street.   Besides that, your not decribing two types of bike designs; it's not a matter of a bike being street legal or not, it's does it work well on the street.

  I can take a 450EXC, run it around the track and then down the road. By the same token, I could take a Honda  NC700X down the road and then run it around a track.  Both are street legal, but way different in terms of design.  The fact that a bike can be "street legal" really means nothing here.

  Simple point: In terms of bike design, running down the road does not take 12" of suspension, but I wouldn't take a bike on a motorcorss track without it (and the corresponding high seat height, which you don't want on a street bike) and lets not even begin to discuss how different those two suspensions need to react and work.  They are simply not the same requirements.

  And let's be honest; many of us that have "street legal" plated bikes would not pass a DOT inspection.  Knobby's for a start are not street legal.  Running your 450EXC with knobs down the road in NY technically could get you a ticket, plate or not.

The problem is that the meaning of "Dual Sport" has shifted over the years.  Thirty years ago it meant one thing; a street bike that could do the occasional trail and off-road.  Today it covers not only that, but also the dirt bike that can do the occasional street.  Within that there is a wide variation with some being more towards the dirt and some more towards the street.

Obviosuly with the new 230L, it's a dirt bike, but has been pushed more towards the street and it's meant to be a cheap, relieable bike.

Wild Alaskan, on 19 July 2012 - 08:15 PM, said:

This is more what I was taking about when I described a trip earlier and taked about vibration; a bike that starts out with dirt in mind and then has enough hung on it to get plated is certainly not going to perform well on the street.  I'll bet if you took your 450 exc (or any bike like this for that matter) more then a few hundred miles down the road, you would be vibrating when you got off.  Your simply not going to go down the road at 50+ mph and not have some vibration and more than a bike designed for the street.

You mention riding a crusier and how it's like a tank; but that's what makes it a street bike giving it a smooth ride down the road.  It's not meant to be "nimble" or "quick"; it doesn't have to dodge trees<g>.

Jim.

JimDettman, on 20 July 2012 - 01:18 AM, said:

huh? I do this with my ktm dualsport,  if my bike could not do this I would not want it, I ONLY own it because I can trailright, light MX AND ride it on the street

if it could not do those things I would not even own a dualsport

JimDettman, on 20 July 2012 - 01:18 AM, said:

You do know that they make DOT knobbies as well as trial tires right?

Edited by crazy_dave, 20 July 2012 - 02:23 AM.

Quote

I'm gonna be disappointed - I thought it was a new CRF250L...  

it is a 250

Edited by crazy_dave, 20 July 2012 - 06:31 AM.

Maybe my definition of riding down streets is the problem, i feel like being on a nimble, yet not maybe not so smooth bike is advantageous when city riding with retards in cages ignoring your existence. I prefer to be able to loft the front wheel over curbs and such, it a really nice feature    Im not saying a dual sport is what i would ride if i was doing 100% street, but they are more than capable of street riding. And you can get really aggressive street legal knobbys, e.g. kenda trackmaster, Kenda k775f ect.

Part of the reason this bike is heavy, it is deigned to carry a passenger.  So the lightweight euro bikes are operator only, with a lightweight aluminium clip on sub frame.  This bike willl have a very stout heavy frame/sub frame and will be designed to take two fatties on a long ride in bad conditions without failure.

Not to mention it will be over engineered to pass all the dumb regs that the greenies and Government wienies have forced on us, like a  massively heavy, no maintenance exhaust, steel side stand that you can actually stand the bike on while you are on it etc etc.

The CBR250 can be modded out fairly easily to make 33 hp and decent torque for a 250.  Same basic motor, so no reason why this cannot be tuned the same way.

The aftermarket will go nuts on this bike, there will be a ton of stuff to dump weight and add power.  With the low purchase price, some people will have lots of money left over for cool parts if that is something they want to do.

Lots of neat Yamaha WR250R's running around, they are a very similar bike.  I have read posts from plenty of satisfied happy owners of that bike.  This one will also develop a niche in the market and produce many fun miles of riding and introduce some new riders to the sport we all love so much. Especially for the bulk of people who simply cannot afford to ride the current overpriced bikes out there.

One thing we can all agree on.... $10,000 dirt bikes are not affordable to MOST people in this economy.  The overpriced bikes have their place, but they are helping to destroy this sport and make it elitist.  Something dirt bike riding has never been before. I have been racing at the "A" level for many, many years now.  I don't like the direction the sport has been going. We are like lemmings headed for a cliff.

We all are getting tired of the "harley-esque" attitude of some euro trash owners, those folks seem to be so brand brain washed that they go on and on about how their (Greatly flawed and grossly over priced) 2012 $10,000 dirt toy is the only thing worth owning, anything else is crap attitude (BTW... I bought a 2012 250XC, so don't start on me) These overpriced bikes have MANY flaws that need attention, most people can't afford to do it, so they quit riding all together.  This sport is in dire need of a low maintenance, inexpensive fun bike.  If someone does not build it, sales will just continue to drop and the sport will continue to die.  This new Honda will bring more people BACK into the sport, which will help to reverse the trend of pushing peolpe out of this sport due to high cost and high maintenance and low reliability of the new bikes.

Dirt bike riding was never like this before, not all polluted with egos and bragging over the cost of their bikes, we all used to get along, did not matter what you rode, or how much money you had, you were just a fellow dirt bike rider out having fun.  We better start remembering our roots, we are all dirt bike riders.  Who gives a crap what you ride or what it cost.  If you have fun on it, its the right bike for you!!!

Edited by stroker, 23 July 2012 - 09:02 AM.

stroker, on 23 July 2012 - 08:59 AM, said:

wow what a load of bs, someone is bitter

the bike industry is running off a cliff because of 4 stroke motocross bikes,  not dualsports from europe,  hell the japanese dont even make them so how could anyone compare the two, apple vs orange,  the gravel road type bikes from japan ie vstrom are not exactly cheap either

Interesting discussion - the Japanese bike mfg.'s have completely abdicated the dual sport market in my opinion. Given the technology of the KTM, Beta and Husqvarna's dual sport rides it is no surprise they cost $10,000.  I would blame much of the issue with cost on the various governments involved and the stupid regulations.  In fact, if it wasn't for Husqvarna first and then KTM, we wouldn't even have the option to ride what are really outstanding dirt bikes on the street.  They stretched the rules and ignored stuff that wasn't enforceable.  By the way, what does a good FI system cost - probably $1K or more including development costs and EPA testing.

The difference between Harley/Cruiser riders and dirt bikers in my opinion is that function rules the day.  The opposite is true in the Harley world. I bought the KTM because of performance pure and simple.  I've always been a Honda owner but they have nothing that performs and at the same time allows me to ride dirt roads and around my neighborhood.  My KTM isn't anymore flawed than the Honda CRF230L that I bought and had to spend $100's on just to make it dirt worthy, and even then I had to sell it because it was hopeless.  In fact, with the KTM I found that the closer you keep it to stock the better it is.

I think Honda is on the right track with the CRF250L, getting back to their roots if you will. Low cost, low maintenance, dependable bike that the average person can go out and have a blast on. I think the Euro bikes have the hardcore street legal dirt bikes covered the market is too small for Honda to bother with anyway. That said I am in no hurry to get rid of my XR250L, which in many ways seems superior to the new bike despite its age.

Edited by jamesgardner83, 26 July 2012 - 12:29 PM.

My local Honda is already spamming them on craigslist,dunno if they actually have one instock tho.$4495 aint bad for a new bike.I agree it should have been a 350.
http://phoenix.craig...3145352619.html

Yes, I have 4 in stock the 2013
crf250lc 4499 USD not a bad little bike. alittl choked up and soft suspension not to be mistaken for the crf250x completly different animals the crf250lc is more for the commuter and occasional trail rider. but the price point is right and with some slight modes pipe powercomander throttle body a good set of SM wheels and it becomes a cool bike for a commuter.