Why is it that Andrew Short is placed higher on the overall standings when both him and Metcalfe got a 5th and a 4th, does the second moto count for more? or is it whoever qualified fastest?
2012 FMF Hangtown Motocross Classic 450 Class Results (Moto Finish):
1. James Stewart, Haines City, Fla., Suzuki (1-1)
2. Ryan Dungey, Belle Plaine, Minn., KTM (3-2)
3. Mike Alessi, Victorville, Calif., Suzuki (7-3)
4. Andrew Short, Smithville, Texas, Honda (5-4)
5. Brett Metcalfe, Mannum, Australia, Suzuki (4-5)
6. Broc Tickle, Holly, Mich., Kawasaki (6-7)
7. Davi Millsaps, Cairo, Ga., Yamaha (2-14)
8. Jake Weimer, Rupert, Idaho, Kawasaki (10-6)
9. Josh Grant, Riverside, Calif., Kawasaki (9-8)
10. Nico Izzi, Rochester, Mich., Yamaha (11-10)
Points Scoring when two riders get mirror results
Started by
Tom579
, May 22 2012 03:20 AM
19 replies to this topic
Posted 22 May 2012 - 03:29 AM
Yes, the second moto is the tie breaker, whoever does better in the second moto gets the better overall.
Posted 22 May 2012 - 04:22 AM
They both get the same points but Short looks better in the record books
Posted 22 May 2012 - 07:36 AM
The points system is a little goofy. I do like the idea that a better 2nd moto finish is the tie breaker for instance like Short where one guy.goes 5-4 and one goes 4-5.
What I think is goofy is that a 1-3 beats a 2-2. Its how they give out sperate points for each moto, but I think a 2-2 is more consistent and should beat a 1-3
What I think is goofy is that a 1-3 beats a 2-2. Its how they give out sperate points for each moto, but I think a 2-2 is more consistent and should beat a 1-3
Posted 22 May 2012 - 07:52 AM
Mike662b, on 22 May 2012 - 07:36 AM, said:
The points system is a little goofy. I do like the idea that a better 2nd moto finish is the tie breaker for instance like Short where one guy.goes 5-4 and one goes 4-5.
What I think is goofy is that a 1-3 beats a 2-2. Its how they give out sperate points for each moto, but I think a 2-2 is more consistent and should beat a 1-3
What I think is goofy is that a 1-3 beats a 2-2. Its how they give out sperate points for each moto, but I think a 2-2 is more consistent and should beat a 1-3
exactly. I can't figure out how a 1-5 (Fiolek) beats a 3-3 (Gieger). Tara had the better finish in moto 2... just saying
Posted 22 May 2012 - 08:38 AM
CRF rider, on 22 May 2012 - 07:52 AM, said:
exactly. I can't figure out how a 1-5 (Fiolek) beats a 3-3 (Gieger). Tara had the better finish in moto 2... just saying
Because AMA pro racing awards points per moto. The points are as follows:
1-25points
2-22
3-20
4-18
5-16
6-15
7-14
8-13
9-12
10-11
11-10
12-9
13-8
14-7
15-6
16-5
17-4
18-3
19-2
20-1
A 1-5 finish would give 41 points whereas a 3-3 is only 40 points, so a 1-5 gets the better overall. The gap between 1st and 2nd is 1 point larger than any other point gap.
Should 2 riders end up with the same number of points for the day, then the second moto is the tie breaker.
Edited by KJ790, 22 May 2012 - 08:39 AM.
Posted 22 May 2012 - 09:45 AM
Mike662b, on 22 May 2012 - 07:36 AM, said:
The points system is a little goofy. I do like the idea that a better 2nd moto finish is the tie breaker for instance like Short where one guy.goes 5-4 and one goes 4-5.
What I think is goofy is that a 1-3 beats a 2-2. Its how they give out sperate points for each moto, but I think a 2-2 is more consistent and should beat a 1-3
What I think is goofy is that a 1-3 beats a 2-2. Its how they give out sperate points for each moto, but I think a 2-2 is more consistent and should beat a 1-3
It doesn't make sense the 1-3 guy would not get first on the podium. Getting from second to first and staying there is a lot tougher than getting from 3rd to 2nd. Nothing goofy at all about that.
Posted 22 May 2012 - 01:17 PM
Mike662b, on 22 May 2012 - 07:36 AM, said:
The points system is a little goofy. I do like the idea that a better 2nd moto finish is the tie breaker for instance like Short where one guy.goes 5-4 and one goes 4-5.
What I think is goofy is that a 1-3 beats a 2-2. Its how they give out sperate points for each moto, but I think a 2-2 is more consistent and should beat a 1-3
What I think is goofy is that a 1-3 beats a 2-2. Its how they give out sperate points for each moto, but I think a 2-2 is more consistent and should beat a 1-3
What does your perception of consistency have to do with anything? Your scenario is the goofy one. A win is a win. The points system and tie breaker rules are carefully designed to leave no margin for error, loopholes, doubts, confusion or inconsistencies. You think they should change from an iron clad mathematical points system to one based on consistency and perception? How would they ever decide a winner, let alone the placing of the other 39 riders? A 1-3 is far more difficult to acheive than a 2-2. 2nd place will always be the first loser.
Edited by MasterT2000, 22 May 2012 - 01:18 PM.
Posted 22 May 2012 - 04:36 PM
I much prefer the outdoors racing to supercross...but supercross has a better format imo. The 2 moto's thing is odd.
Posted 22 May 2012 - 05:28 PM
MasterT2000, on 22 May 2012 - 01:17 PM, said:
What does your perception of consistency have to do with anything? Your scenario is the goofy one. A win is a win. The points system and tie breaker rules are carefully designed to leave no margin for error, loopholes, doubts, confusion or inconsistencies. You think they should change from an iron clad mathematical points system to one based on consistency and perception? How would they ever decide a winner, let alone the placing of the other 39 riders? A 1-3 is far more difficult to acheive than a 2-2. 2nd place will always be the first loser.
Im amatuer racing its simple, you get points for moto finish, lowest score wins. 2nd moto is tie breaker. So a 2-2 will beat a 1-3. They both score 4 points but the 2-2 had a better 2nd moto.
So if the AMA gave a 1 point diffence per finish, you would wouldnt see a 1-5 beating a 3-3. I truly believe first place is the best, but if your going to rank it on one moto then first place obviously wins, like in SX. If your going to have 2 motos, then it should be the better average finish. It is what it is, I just dont like it.
Posted 22 May 2012 - 05:52 PM
Mike662b, on 22 May 2012 - 05:28 PM, said:
Im amatuer racing its simple, you get points for moto finish, lowest score wins. 2nd moto is tie breaker. So a 2-2 will beat a 1-3. They both score 4 points but the 2-2 had a better 2nd moto.
So if the AMA gave a 1 point diffence per finish, you would wouldnt see a 1-5 beating a 3-3. I truly believe first place is the best, but if your going to rank it on one moto then first place obviously wins, like in SX. If your going to have 2 motos, then it should be the better average finish. It is what it is, I just dont like it.
The AMA scoring system rewards top finishers with wider point gaps. A 3 point spread from 1st to 2nd and two point spread for 2-5
If a consistant top finisher has one bad moto it isn't as costly as it would be with the Olympic system. I like the way it is and hope they never change it
Posted 30 May 2012 - 06:10 PM
The Pro AMA point system is stupid. Awarding points based on a single moto result only favors the factory guys as they are more likely to have a really good score tied to an average score.
Just look at Milsaps finish of 2-14 (16 total) finishing 7th overall, were as Weimer (ok ~ still a factory guy) went 10-6 (16 total) finished 8th. "Back in the day" Weimer would have gotten 7th because he did have the better 2nd moto. It's easy to understand and prevents me from wasting hours explaining it to my "stick and ball" sports friends. As it is now it's just another reason for them to bang on MX.
Awarding points based on a single moto finish just rewards half a job.
Just look at Milsaps finish of 2-14 (16 total) finishing 7th overall, were as Weimer (ok ~ still a factory guy) went 10-6 (16 total) finished 8th. "Back in the day" Weimer would have gotten 7th because he did have the better 2nd moto. It's easy to understand and prevents me from wasting hours explaining it to my "stick and ball" sports friends. As it is now it's just another reason for them to bang on MX.
Awarding points based on a single moto finish just rewards half a job.
Posted 30 May 2012 - 06:40 PM
zig06, on 30 May 2012 - 06:10 PM, said:
Just look at Milsaps finish of 2-14 (16 total) finishing 7th overall, were as Weimer (ok ~ still a factory guy) went 10-6 (16 total) finished 8th.
Do you even realize that you are adding the scores wrong?
Davi had 29pts and Jake had 26pts
To me 29 is more than 26 but I went to public school so what do I know
Posted 30 May 2012 - 06:56 PM
meyermetal, on 30 May 2012 - 06:40 PM, said:
Do you even realize that you are adding the scores wrong?
Davi had 29pts and Jake had 26pts
To me 29 is more than 26 but I went to public school so what do I know
Davi had 29pts and Jake had 26pts
To me 29 is more than 26 but I went to public school so what do I know
But that's the problem (ummm, not your public schooling) ~ but maybe as we are talking moto finishes not points awarded (re-read the OP). And at that point both had moto finishes that equal 16. You know "two plus fourteen equals sixteen (2 + 14 = 16)" and "ten plus six equals sixteen (10 + 6 = 16)" ~ got it??
Now consider the fact that the second moto is always the tie breaker, therefore Weimers ten plus six (10 + 6) is better than Milsaps two plus fourteen (2 + 14). And as such Weimer should have been awarded a higher place than Milsap.
Got it??
It works that way where ever you go, ... well ..., besides AMA Pro Racing.
Posted 30 May 2012 - 07:02 PM
zig06, on 30 May 2012 - 06:56 PM, said:
But that's the problem (ummm, not your public schooling) ~ but maybe as we are talking moto finishes not points awarded (re-read the OP). And at that point both had moto finishes that equal 16. You know "two plus fourteen equals sixteen (2 + 14 = 16)" and "ten plus six equals sixteen (10 + 6 = 16)" ~ got it??
Now consider the fact that the second moto is always the tie breaker, therefore Weimers ten plus six (10 + 6) is better than Milsaps two plus fourteen (2 + 14). And as such Weimer should have been awarded a higher place than Milsap.
Got it??
It works that way where ever you go, ... well ..., besides AMA Pro Racing.
Now I see what your doing. Your not following the rules
Do you have a cheater frame
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