Ktm motors..yes but the rfs..good motors... Those have a solid following for being reliable so that's one of the reason I went Beta at the time. ..not as reliable as an xr 400 but few bikes have that reputation. The new Beta motors have had good reports so far and excellent quality of power for off road. Smooth torquey and power  all over with a  bunch on top.

Ktm motors..yes but the rfs..good motors... Those have a solid following for being reliable so that's one of the reason I went Beta at the time. ..not as reliable as an xr 400 but few bikes have that reputation. The new Beta motors have had good reports so far and excellent quality of power for off road. Smooth torquey and power  all over with a  bunch on top.

The RFS is one of the few KTM motors that are rock solid. As far as the good old XR400, well, It's a Honda after all.

Definitely still on topic guys. I have the EFI bikes and the Carbs, in CA, like HI we ride year around. I don't like the fact that EFI bikes (DS/Dirt) have not been out long enough. I always have it in the back of my mind to NOT ride solo without means of "help communication" Spot, Cell, GPS, etc. Like I said, I have seen fuel pumps die and need to be towed out.  would ride my XR400 anyplace, anywhere, anytime of the year. Bike was more dependable than your best dog. Problem I had was 2 surgeries on my right knee and made it hard to kick over ALL THE TIME! I will not do the same on my TE450, but would on a Beta. I should of looked into them a couple years ago but they were using KTM motors up to 2 years ago. The fact that they use a big 39mm pumper carb is awesome. Like my XR400 I had all the mods that made that bike awesome. So my thoughts are heavy on the Beta.

For me the benifet of a big bore is zero because I can do everything with a smaller bore and still have energy left at the end of the day to eat dinner.

Back on topic.

I was discussing the pumper carb with Dave. This will be the first (dirt) bike I have ever owned with one. I had CV carbs on my XR's with that big rubber diaphragm. I thought the 520 I test rode was spot on perfect as far as jetting.

FWIW, I too was tired of kicking over my XR650R and wearing out my knee. That and the fact it weighed in at 325 lbs ready to ride! I did not have a scale, but the Beta feels to be right about the same weight as my 300 ready to ride. My rule is under 300lbs for a bike going offroad.

True on the weight! The 520 I took for a spin felt like my 450. The problem I have had on my TE450 is the turning radius, very poor and the tight switchbacks are hard to do on it.
OAN
I was reading up on the Beta break in and it's the slow procedure, 1/2 throttle for the first three hours, and 3/4 for the next twelve. They feel the same way I do about not riding it like you stole it out of the box.

True on the weight! The 520 I took for a spin felt like my 450. The problem I have had on my TE450 is the turning radius, very poor and the tight switchbacks are hard to do on it.
OAN
I was reading up on the Beta break in and it's the slow procedure, 1/2 throttle for the first three hours, and 3/4 for the next twelve. They feel the same way I do about not riding it like you stole it out of the box.

Back on topic? This is the topic ... Isn't it?  Beta won this latest 450 four stroke shootout with "old" technology carb and it works well. For me and obviously others the carb is a considered a better choice especially when dealing with having to possibly do off road mechanics in the middle of nowhere. ..and that of course is a matter of opinion. So what brand do you ride that has better reliability than ktm? EFI is of course probably going to be more commonplace with it's newer implementation in dirt bikes . but on a practical note what do you do when your EFI has problems in the trail? Honestly I haven't gone in depth into researching EFI but have run into random threads and mentions of those that have gotten stuck or having problems with it. It's in the tank right?  So if you need to deal with it what about access for ex. ?.. Really once I heard of some mentionings I tuned out more since I haven't had problems with my carb for many many years nor others bikes... but whatever... like you said  it's personal preference for whatever you feel benefits your needs . This makes me more curious now to start reading more on EFI and its benefits and not so great benefits. . . but I do appreciate your input toward EFI. You know more than I since you have a bike with it.  As far as bike size goes this is a 450 4t shootout . I guess that's just the average mainstay class.. not too big but definitely not small. Funny going by my earlier experience I would swear that my 525 Beta would be a disadvantage in general tight trails. I would have thought that a smaller bore would be better... It would be if I had places where I would have to get off my bike.. but as long as I don't I enjoy riding as fast but with less effort. Sometimes a 200 is better especially in the tight trees etc and sometimes a 200 just doesn't have the torque that a 250 or larger can give to climb certain hills. It kind of depends where and what kind of trails you ride. ... of course this is just my opinion with what experience I've had riding around here on our types of trails.

I thought the same thing until I realized that a small bore has no chance whatsoever on a huge sand hill and the wear and tear of 100+ freeway miles between the hardcore stuff. I also like the fact that you can run a gear or two high with the bigger bore bikes.

Of course there is no denying the "light feel" of the small bore. It does come down to personal choice in the end of it all…..

For me the benifet of a big bore is zero because I can do everything with a smaller bore and still have energy left at the end of the day to eat dinner.

I should of looked into them a couple years ago but they were using KTM motors up to 2 years ago.

My first EFI bike was a 2008 TE250 (Husky). This was the first year for EFI and did have issues but not wide spread, I had none of them. First issue was the fuel pump would stop working but when investigating showed the pump was held in place with one zip tie, pump moved and connection broke. First thing I did was add another zip tie and pump never moved. Other issue was temp sensor which told the EFI to cool motor. If this happen just unplug sensor and all is well. I had 200 hrs and 4000 miles when I sold the bike and it never missed a beat. Now I have a 2010 TE310 with the same EFI system. All the early issues are taken care of from the factory and better programming as well. To answer your question, what happens if the pump fails on the trail?? You walk back unless you have a spare pump. Can this happen?? Yes, does it happen much?? No. Also there are several aftermarket pumps on the market cheap you can use as a spare if you’re scared. Injectors stop working?? Yes and No, Husky uses 4 large holes (12 holes on off-road models 2012) in the injector which reduces performance but can spit out any dirt in the system. KTM uses 16 small holes and will clog thus the three inline filters. On some EFI bikes a loss of battery current. The EFI needs very little power to fire and the pump can be activated by kick starting. How many times does your battery go from good to zero power on a ride, zero is not a dead (low) battery?? If you research the system/make of bike you will find fixes for the issues. Fix the issue before it leaves you stranded! My bike and the other “in the woods” bikes all have di-electric grease, taped plug/CDI wires and many other water proofing to prevent issues on the trail. Same can be done for EFI systems.

I don’t have a lot of sand but have hills that are steep with washed out hillsides. There has not been a place my bike couldn’t go that my skill could on a 250 4t. What fun is there if you can creep up a hill in 10th gear on a 520cc bike??

I guess I'd say it never is "easy" for whatever bike in certain technical situations but it just works better for bigger bikes sometimes. ..and it's just that in the 4 stroke situation why a small bore when the weight is the same as a big bike... For me I don't get how that is so far with the very mild mannered big bore motors that Beta's have on their bikes. People keep telling me , "Wow 525 big motor huh!....must have lots of power!!! ". But to me my 250 detuned cr seems more radical than my 525. My 525 is super mellow to me. I think when people ride it they get a different perspective...at least that's what I think. I do still have to ride more smaller bore newer 4 stroke enduro bikes to know more of what people are comparing to. I've just ridden stuff like yammie wrf 250 and crf 250 in the trail as far as small bore 4 stroke.

250 2T is radical, burst of power, loss of traction but fun for five minutes. Big motors have that arm stretching torque that is intimidating and for most overwhelming. I haven’t felt good on any big bore bikes I rode but will say the 450 Beta had a very smooth power delivery. The planted feel of the Beta makes it less tiring at the end of the day. Flip side, less exciting at the beginning of the day vs. other bikes .

250 2T is radical, burst of power, loss of traction but fun for five minutes. Big motors have that arm stretching torque that is intimidating and for most overwhelming. I haven’t felt good on any big bore bikes I rode but will say the 450 Beta had a very smooth power delivery. The planted feel of the Beta makes it less tiring at the end of the day. Flip side, less exciting at the beginning of the day vs. other bikes .

love the 2012 450rr.  it is so smooth. I think it is totally awsome that it won the shootout.  I have the 08 525 rr with the rfs motor in it, the 2010 520rr with the beta motor and now this 450.  It is very easy to ride.....