BlackCR25098, on 10 May 2012 - 11:44 PM, said:

Its hard to always steer with the rear because you can't do it in ruts, you can't do it in big bowl corners when your following the outside line all the way though. Its really reserved for those situations when you actually need it and its a good skill to just have.

Adapting to the situation around you is the key. So yes, in any given day you might use mostly ALL your MX skills.

BlackCR25098, on 10 May 2012 - 11:44 PM, said:

But you can do it safely, without hurting the other person's line. Sometimes you get in their way and mess it up, but if you do it right, you should be able to go deep, twist the bike around and throttle out, before the other guy knew what happened. So its not necessarily a block pass if you don't block'em! heh

BlackCR25098, on 10 May 2012 - 11:44 PM, said:

Really, truthfully, bowl corners are so easy, it doesn't really make that much of a difference what you do in them. I've been caught going through them with both feet on the pegs, sliding the rear around and just using rear end feel to get through the corner. In terms of my comment about weighting the outside peg until your butt is off the seat. I'm exaggerating slightly, you don't necessarily want your butt off the seat, you just want it to feel like its damn close to being off the seat. You still need to weight the bike properly, which will give you the necessary traction to go forward. Over time these skills will become second nature and you won't have any problems. For now, try to just go out and figure some of these things out on the track like I did. What works for you, may not be the same skill that works for me.

Well still glad I asked, because this thread has really sorted MANY a questions regarding corners, angle, body position, and traction - what's better for what situation so thanks the both of you. My hydro clutch just hit the door step! Time to go wrench.

BlackCR25098, on 11 May 2012 - 04:14 PM, said:

Ohh boy! I'm anxious to hear how you get on with that!

My new suspension is gonna show up early next week, THAT is going to change my life, I can't wait!

BlackCR25098, on 11 May 2012 - 04:14 PM, said:

Ur welcome! Go clutch it up man! (my piston kit and gaskets just arrived too!)

Edited by kx910, 11 May 2012 - 08:56 PM.

Sweeeeet! Sounds like we all got some presents! I finally got the clutch installed and I'm NEVER going back...ever. I read some reviews people saying that it was no better than a cable system. Sorry, but those people are crazy or J, or both. Don't know, don't care. I think out of 43 reviews, 2 of them said something like that. Install took about 20 minutes, super easy.

I actually got mixed up thinking that it didn't come with the magura fluid and I had to order it, because the manual was reaaallll vague...You know the type, and disorganized...It would have the text description for something on page 2, and the corresponding picture was on pg. 5 after they had covered a whole other thing (bleeding) lol but it's nothing super complicated, I just thought the system came empty and you had to fill it for shipping reasons. Same way they do forks or whatever. Made sense at the time, and I was super bummed because no one carries that magura mineral oil..had to order, and I just wanted to feel the clutch pull.

That lasted for a little bit while I was researching other compatible oils (which there really isn't any) not anything that's worth trying to see if it ruins the seals. Might as well order the magura stuff and have it the next day from motosport. Finally I got bored and went down to mess with it and look at slave cylinder more closely. Finally pulled off resy cap and noticed a full amount of fluid in it. Went back up and searched for the right thing this time and was stoked to see it actually is filled and bled from the factory. Def wasn't expecting that. So 20 mins later, she's on, line is tied well no kinks and away from any heat sources (not near as important on a 2 stroke as it is a 4 obviously) but yea, super consistent 1 finger pull.

It feels just like my buddies son's brand new 2012 kx85 if not better. If yall have ever felt the pull on one of those then you know what I'm talking about..I'm stoked. Only thing that sucks is my stock PJ carb is broken and out of commission and I got the brand new PWK and crank seals coming early this week since motosport didn't have it in stock, so I won't get to actually ride with it till then..and then I'll do my review, but I can already tell, it's going to be everything I hoped it could be. Super consistent and self adjusting, no more cable crap, but now I get to change fluid, which is fine with me

I've always hated hand guards or bark busters and what not...but now that I have this I almost feel like they might be worth it..I can always get replacement levers of course but the stock magura doesn't bend backwards like my previous trackside ones...Not a big deal, just gotta it somewhat loose on the bar so it will move with force and that will greatly reduce lever breaks, but yeah, I'm "thinking" about hand guards but far from sold on them.

Tye, what suspension changes are you making? What will be the difference? Suspension is EVERYTHING, but I honestly am going to wait until I get a little better. Better enough to know what I WANT, before I start upgrading. Tye you know how I am about not knowing what the hell is going on haha Till then, just simply setting my stock susp up will suffice!

And

kx910, Am I to assume you're doing a top end eh?? I say that my hydro clutch is my best mod. More like my favorite. Pistons, motor, suspension, and brake upgrades are always by far the best.

Edited by BlackCR25098, 12 May 2012 - 12:30 AM.

Sounds like ur enjoying ur new upgrade! And I'm not really "upgrading" the top end, I just needed to replace it because it was gettin ready to blow! When ur bike gets to that point (if it hasn't done so once already), you'll know what I mean. And I had hand guards once. They mad me feel "too safe", like I was so safe that I didn't want to go fast. I like having a neck brace and everything, but for some reason, hand guards don't go well with me.

Edited by kx910, 12 May 2012 - 05:37 PM.

kx910, on 12 May 2012 - 05:35 PM, said:

I agree...I mean until now that I have this hydro clutch that I really want to protect, it was like, what's the big deal with hand guards??? I can't explain why but they would make me feel a little confined covering my hands like that, plus I could care less if I get popped in the hand/knuckle/whatever with roost. That's one thing I have plenty of experience with being a noob. Roost. I just don't see the point unless you ride strictly tight trails with a billion trees and bad balance.

Haha listen to this: Did my SECOND idiotic thing with the hydro clutch/bike today. As you know, last night I installed it to the best of my ability. The little clutch "arm" inside the ignition area where the cable attaches looked like it had the same movement distance as the original cable setup...All I did last night was sit there and feel the clutch action, and make damn sure the cable was routed perfectly and away from the cylinder/pipe.

Keep in mind my bike hasn't been ran in a week, and my stock PJ carburetor is out of commission, waiting on the new PWK carb to get here early this week. Right now it's got the subframe/airbox/rear fender/silencer and gas tank removed...So I haven't been able to actually ride the bike and really feel this clutch. So, today I had the brilliant idea to "test" to make sure the magura was fully disengaging and engaging, SO I decided to drop it off the stand, kick it into first gear, pull the clutch in, and try to push it, in my mind assuring that it was fully disengaging so the bike would roll in 1st...

Well the motor/gears/clutch is cold as can be since it hasn't been ran in a week and of course with clutch pulled in, in 1st gear, she stopped dead in her tracks at first gear...I got real worried thinking the adjustment was way off (which there really isn't any "right" way to adjust the slave cylinder without compromising the seals and it's operation) SO, I called my real knowledgeable buddy to check with him and it was then that he informed me of course it won't roll because it's cold. It's not supposed to. Just to be sure I quickly re-installed the original cable system and adjusted the free play and tried it, SAME THING....PHEWWW! I made sure to check and make sure both systems were pulling the clutch "arm" the same distance down in the stator/ignition area and they are. Thank the lord.

It isn't easy being an idiot, but in the end, I'm glad I do this stuff because I learn. It's just highly stressful for a little while. It's much better to just be plain wrong, and I think the reason I never noticed this is because I ALWAYS put the bike in neutral to load/unload or move, and I think I started doing that because even when everything is warmed up, I remember it still being a bit of a PITA to move it with  clutch disengaged in 1st gear.

Can't wait to fire her up and REALLY feel the difference. Not only will the clutch be awesome, but I hear these PWK carbs totally clean out the jetting and increase initial throttle response. I'm pumped.

Edited by BlackCR25098, 12 May 2012 - 09:54 PM.

BlackCR25098, on 12 May 2012 - 12:26 AM, said:

The KTM Magura lever is shorter then the stock Japanese levers. I have yet to break a lever on my KTM, which is pretty impressive considering the crashes I've had and how bad they've been. I bent fork tubes, I've twisted front ends, ruined plastics, even had one of grips sheer off at the end, yet the levers stay in tact. Gotta love KTM's reasoning for having "shorty" levers stock! But yea, I can't ride a bike without a hydraulic clutch either, it totally changed MY life as well. Glad its working for you, didn't know how it would work on the Honda.

BlackCR25098, on 12 May 2012 - 12:26 AM, said:

The goal is to make a plush bike that handles well, two things that I've never been even close to achieving with the WP stuff before. Suspension is the ONLY problem with KTM's and I'm hoping now it won't be! They replace the valves, piston in the shock, put in a check plate design mid valve (basically removing the mid valve and all sorts of other miscellaneous mods. The final product is a fork that should be plush and compliant without having to mess with midvalves, which are a PITA to tune.

Suspension to me is #1, followed closely by tires. If the bike is controlling you, then something needs to be done and that was my problem in a nutshell.

tye1138, on 13 May 2012 - 09:55 AM, said:

Yea I don't think that my actual Magura Hydro clutch lever is any shorter than the stock, in fact I would say that it has to be pretty close. My bike lost the stock lever a long time ago I would assume, and I've had a track side that bends backwards but I will say that the magura is much slimmer, but still just as long to near the grip end. It does bend back just slightly, but I think that is just so that you can get to the little red lever "throw" adjuster to bring the lever in closer or further out...Right now I've got it 3 clicks in from fully out because it has more "play" there before engaging the cable rod to go up and down. I'm actually a little confused on if I still have to adjust it like that because everyone says it adjusts "automatically". Need to ask someone like Hrc on here or just call a magura tech since apparently I have the extra chromosome in my DNA LOL

tye1138, on 13 May 2012 - 09:55 AM, said:

I could not agree more. This is the one thing that is not dialed on my bike. I have literally everything else up to par, but my thing is....As a beginner even if I sent it off to the best shop in the world and they say okay, what do you want?? Hell if I know?! I've heard arguments on soft vs. stiff and of course they both have their advantages but what I've observed in pro sports is usually the beginners start out with it relatively stiff to keep the tires back on the ground as much as possible, and at the pro level, they tend to go more soft...Maybe it's just an attribute of getting better on the bike? Or maybe I'm rambling BULL here but that's just been my perception. Mine is set up in the most basic form of course but I'm about to go through and do ALL bearings, and at least get a rebuild/re-valve done on both although I think I am going to upgrade my forks to the 00-01 since they swap right over and are truly a better fork.

You remember how I said I replaced my fork seals and they immediately started leaking and "hissing" when I strap the bike down? The kid who helped me do it said my fork stansions are bad but I think that I had been installing the forks/front wheel/axle wrong causing some sort of binding that made it all happen. Makes the most sense to me and I haven't been able to prove it yet but ever since I corrected it, no more hissing, no more fluid dripping on the trailer when I get to my destination, BUT then again it could just have no more fluid in there. I've basically rode on them not caring because I'm going to upgrade anyway. But yes, I whole heartedly agree, a guy with 1/3 the power of my bike with perfect suspension would smoke my ass. Better to be in complete and utter control of 1/3 power than 100% power with very little control.

Edited by BlackCR25098, 13 May 2012 - 12:36 PM.

You have it backwards, beginners usually run softer set ups. As people get faster they move toward stiffer more progressive suspension.

Die_trying, on 13 May 2012 - 02:01 PM, said:

If you say so lol I find that I'm always wrong or at least have it backwards, but that's why I put it out there just to make sure...I say I observe this but it's just from reading MX magazines and the team mechanic will mention so and so actually prefers soft setups and I've read it several times with many of the big time guys.

We we're at the track recently and I was with my "experienced" buddy watching kids hit this long sweeper to a nice sized step down that you just fly off of down a straight into a bowl. Anyway, they'd come around and you've really gotta lay the bike over, standing, because as soon as the turns straights you're off the edge. But anyway a couple kids suspension and tires were just bouncing so much the tires were touching the ground half the time of other kids, and my buddy mentioned their suspension isn't set right. It's too soft if it's doing that on a relatively flat area with bumps, because the suspension needs to be stiffer so the tires rebound much quicker and get back to the ground as much as possible. Made a lot of sense and was a great situation to actually watch and learn that, so when I do finally get mine setup I know that I definitely want enough stiffness for those situations, cuz I need all the traction I can get.

the "stiffness" of suspension is a general term which IMO usually refers to the suspension resistance to movement and can be applied to multiple settings in the suspension. Generally stiffer suspension is associated with heavier springs and stronger compression dampening, but can also be related to rebound dampening. Soft suspension blows through the stroke and bottoms with less force then a bike with stiffer suspension. I would think tires bouncing over small bumps would be the result of either too much rebound dampening which would cause the back wheel to 'pack' and not drop out enough maintaining traction or too much low speed compression dampening that would cause the rear wheel to pop off small bumps rather then soak them up. Of course i didn't see any of the bikes so I'm only speculating.......

Faster riders hit the same obstacles faster then slower riders (duh), when you hit stuff faster, there is an increase in the magnitude of the forces you are experiencing and more resistance to those forces (stiffer suspension) is required. Of course this is and over simplified generalization and i'm sure there are instances when it doesn't hold true, but it should make since for the most part. With stiffer suspension comes a need to ride faster to make the suspension work effectively, meaning if you try to ride it slowly it is usually harsh and takes a lot of energy.

edit: looking back to strictest sense of the meaning of stiffness you would only be focusing on the spring, but a lot of people refer to the 'stiffness' of the dampening as well. in this sense you could look at increased stiffness as having the ability to store more potential energy and release it more quickly.

Edited by Die_trying, 13 May 2012 - 04:28 PM.

Die_trying, on 13 May 2012 - 03:34 PM, said:

Dang thanks for that break down, and while I haven't gotten very far into suspension physics or geometry, I think I was merely commenting on that "rebound" factor, where when they'd hit the same bumps the suspension of course would compress but it would not rebound as quickly as it "should". It was painfully obvious to watch and I guess it could be something as simple as a couple clicks on the forks and shock. Can't wait till I get into all that and start researching and learning about the physics of it all. Once I learn all of that, I think I'll be a pretty well rounded rider/mechanic. I'm just prioritizing it all on MY bike and learning as I go as I slowly replace or improve every part of the bike. It really has been cool to rebuild the motor top end, learn jetting, tire changes, full breakdown and cleaning of the bike, and all of the other "little stuff" that makes such a big difference...Honestly other than a bottom end rebuild, I think suspension is about the only thing left! But it's a big one.

If you or anyone else read this and knows of a good "read" or thread or anything similar that explains the basics of everything real well, that'd be awesome! I'm always looking for good sources of info, and it's sort of a challenge too to distinct exactly what of all of it applies to 2 strokes vs. 4 (being mainly interested in the 2 strokes of course) because the whole nature of the way each reacts and delivers is completely different.

Just an example of what I mean is this whole time I've been riding and learning techniques (jumping) everyone said the main thing is just be sure to ALWAYS be steady on the throttle off the lip until you've left it...Until recently tye showed me that for a 2 stroke if you let off the throttle it's not going to kill the momentum of the rear tire near as quick as a 4t (sending you nose diving off a jump) and it makes sense bc I've watched so much footage of JS7 and other pro's on 2 strokes straight chopping the throttle before the jump to back off the speed a little so they don't have to actually brake in the straight before the jump and then get back on, just to leave the lip with throttle on. Hope that made sense. It's kind of a pain because I know I ask a ton of questions and stuff, but a lot of it I've had to dig deeper than just the old basic tips for ALL dirt bikes. The 2t and 4t are two completely diff animals and should be treated as such, instead of just generalizing it all together.

Edited by BlackCR25098, 13 May 2012 - 04:51 PM.

yes you can blip the throttle on the lip, but you can do the same thing on a four stroke. Maybe it's because i started on a two stroke, then switched between two and four stroke multiple times that the differences between the two seem mundane, with the main difference being that the meat of the power curve for a four stroke is wider then that of a two stroke and some different handling traits. Something i don't see mentioned a lot about two stroke power is how hard it falls off. I recently switched from 450 back to 250 and am experiencing something new to me. On my old 250 two stroke i never had issues with getting into the over rev and having the power fall off. I only got to ride my 250 for about a month before injuring my self , still not really having returned to riding I have had too much time to think about it.
My 450 pulled to the rev limiter, and i figured i could just "pin it" on my 250 like i did on my 450, WRONG. I can't blame the bike for my crash because i did miss a shift. To get to the point, a lot of people talk about having to get to a higher rpm to get to the meat of the power on a two stroke, but what they don't mention is that the meat of the power also ends sooner on a two stroke then it does on a four stroke. I know any of my issues on finding those shift points will be solved with more seat time, and possibly a new pipe and starting to play with the jetting, but it was just something i thought i would bring up.

Edited by Die_trying, 13 May 2012 - 05:20 PM.

Die_trying, on 13 May 2012 - 05:14 PM, said:

Yep you're exactly right. Lots of people talk about Barcia's style actually slowing him down running in the rev limiter but that's a 4 stroke, if you tried to ride Barcia style in over-rev all the time on a 250 2 stroke, well...simply put...you wouldn't because it would put you on your head. The way I understand it, you're just not going to be able to max out on a 250 2t like you can these 125 2t's and even 250 4t's, unless it was just the most wide-open track on the world and even then taking it to the max over-rev all the time would just be a gamble straight out. It made me feel alot better once I realized this, because being a beginner, I just don't ever see a point down the line ever where I would ever be able to just go WFO on my 250, but it made a ton more sense when I learned that guys will haul ass in the straights and the cool thing about the 2 stroke is it doesn't have the engine braking characteristics of a 4t, so if you already have the momentum and speed to clear a jump you don't need steady throttle or even a blip at all, you can just haul ass up to the jump chop throttle right before when you're at the perfect speed and sail that sucker, but of course that is only on specific areas or type of jumps but still it was awesome to learn that because as you guessed, I had it all wrong.

Now, even though I do want to start practicing this getting up to speed, and being BARELY on the throttle, or none at all vs, hauling ass, breaking, hauling ass, stay steady throttle, jump...I'm not about to go doing it full speed on the first jump I see. I'm gonna have to start small some kind of way or find a good jump that has a big down hill landing so if the bike does endo on me I can still correct it easy and be okay. It's funny though because no 2 jumps are the same and the one that I know of that HAS that perfect landing I need, definitely requires a BLIP of the throttle not just on the face, but right as the back wheel hits the lip and leaves, because it has sort of a double lip, or a bump, on the lip. So, if you don't blip it when the rear wheel hits it it's gonna throw you nose down instantly...I'll find one soon enough though. My main thing is just to be safe though. I'm obviously still in infant riding stage even though I've been at it since the beginning of the fall, but that's okay. This sport, my bike of choice, and the riding style it demands is extremely precise and unforgiving.

Edited by BlackCR25098, 13 May 2012 - 05:37 PM.

BlackCR25098, on 13 May 2012 - 12:35 PM, said:

Yea, there are a lot of things about suspension that you need to learn! LOL

The slower you go, the more mistakes you make, the softer the suspension you want/need. You want something that will absorb the impacts, not be crazy stiff to knock you off the bike. So as a beginner, you want really soft/plush suspension, stuff that can deal with the slower speeds and bumps that go along with it. Pro's suspension is SUPER stiff, nobody on this forum cold ever ride SX suspension. Even the pro's run softer stuff during outdoor practice.

As you get quicker, the suspension stiffness can be increased. Usually first through dampening and then through actual spring rate increases. I had super stiff stuff on my 125, I did my best times with it by far. However, it really beat me up and thats why I'm going BACK to the soft stuff because the bumps are just too much to deal with.

The double chamber forks are the ones to get, IDK what year Honda started using them, but it was pretty early, 01 maybe?

tye1138, on 13 May 2012 - 08:35 PM, said:

Yeah I know exactly what you're saying and I read you loud and clear, but I will definitely have a good bit of stifness thrown into my bike, even if it's only through dampening for now. Even though I'm a noob and relatively still "slow" I'm still hitting 3rd and 4th gear most of the time on our tracks keeping a steady flow. It's just holding that speed while jumping is kind of the next step, like I was saying, I brake and then get back on it, which is stupid but saves my neck..

99.999% sure my 1998 has the dual chamber forks, at least the manual says so, and I've taken them fully apart doing seals and outter fluid and they were just like my buddies 2011 crf450...The one's that are a bitch are the single chambers like my friend with a wr250f. Apparently you've gotta use a syringe or bulb filler some kind of way, but it doesn't matter. I'm junking my 98 forks now and upgrading at least to a 2000-2001, since it's a direct swap over. I just want some newer good condition forks, without having to change triples, front caliper, etc. etc...Don't really wanna get into all that.

I haven't heard or seen if any newer rear shocks will swap over...Mine seems to be in fine working order, just needs bearings replaced and maybe a revalve, but I won't really know until I pull it out and get to looking at her.

Thanks for the quick education though guys. This stuff is great to know, but don't forget...Apparently I am on the stiffest aluminum-frame bike ever made (as far as frame flex) At least that is what people say...Doesn't really bother me much, and I feel like I get extremely honest feedback from my suspension because of it.

I am in the middle of ordering the new easton EXP bars, lifetime warranty never to bend, and they're gigantic 1-3/8" fatter than my current easton gold fat bar 1-1/8"..The ea70 aluminum and stiffer bar is actually supposed to cut down on vibration a good bit. I still need to get a rubber mount system, as this old 1998 is metal to metal clamp/bar mounts. It's my first time ordering new bars. I finally got it all figured but man the "handle bar" reference system is quite retarded I must say. Everyone has their own take on reed/henry, wyndham, carmichael, and then they even all have their own version of each of those. Super confusing. After a ton of math, I've settled on the universal mid, which will be almost a half inch taller (I wanted) with very little sweep or "pull back" which will finally hopefully make me feel much more comfortable on stand up wheelies and just standing in general.

BlackCR25098, on 12 May 2012 - 09:52 PM, said:

Sounds like a conundrum! I hate when I'm working on my bike and then I get freaked out by something like that. Yesterday, when I was trying to install my new piston, I tried putting the cylinder on, but the piston ring was wider than the cylinder hole, and I thought that the ring was bigger than the piston! It was kinda funny, cuz I was sitting there freaking out until i just thought "the piston ring bends", so I simply squeezed it together so that it would fit into the cylinder. It sounds stupid, but that was my first time rebuilding an engine. That won't be happening again.

Well, I hope ur havin as good a day as I am. Catch ya later!

kx910, on 16 May 2012 - 03:58 PM, said:

Someone let you take your motor apart not knowing you have to squeeze the rings to put the new piston in?

Should I laugh now or later?

ROFL!!!!

I guess ya gotta learn somehow!!!

Edited by tye1138, 16 May 2012 - 04:39 PM.