kx910, on 09 May 2012 - 11:23 PM, said:

Okay good well that's at least a little bit of re-assurance, but on the sitting part I know I've been taught to lean the bike over but sit up on the side (edge) of the seat or even more so if I have to, but then again I've noticed many a times like you said guys leaning all the way over with the bike and sticking that foot out. The thing is they give these general tips but there are sooo many turning situations that not 1 tip can always apply to everything...what applies to what and when is where I get so confused.

Edited by BlackCR25098, 10 May 2012 - 12:03 AM.

There are so many variables, technique can change lap after lap honestly. If you're rigid in your technique, instead of going with the flow, then you won't go any quicker. The reason why learning technique is good, is so you have a base set of skills you can modify for the situation at hand. People forget, the whole idea is to get through the bloody corner quicker then the guy in front of you or behind you.

Over time, as you travel to different tracks with different conditions, you will discover skills you don't have today. I know I always bring this up, but that "association database" is the key to becoming a better rider and it takes YEARS to develop it. I'm on my 2nd year and I reckon I've got another 2 left before I have all of the skills mastered enough to just focus on riding. By then I should have about 1000 hours under my belt, I'm at about 1/2 that right now.

tye1138, on 10 May 2012 - 07:38 AM, said:

Very well said, couldn't agree more. Being a noob and just the way I am in general, it's funny how simple techniques can actually get so complicated just because the terrain is always changing, even at the same track!!! But personally I just want to make sure I am learning the RIGHT techniques, and not the wrong ones, because we all know after x amount of riding time we basically burn our style into our muscle memory and it's hard to break after that...I'm more of the flowing style all over the bike, constantly changing, keeping momentum up. I try to stay away from any sort of rigid styles or techniques. But on the track conditions, depending on if it's prepped, dried out, muddy, and what not it totally changes the basics...I just know weighing the outside peg I actually felt a huge difference, so I've tried to do that as much as possible but I don't think I'll be able to find all or even half the answers on a forum. I think I'll answer them myself after x amount of hours on this seat. I just get pretty frustrated with the contradictions, not that people mean to do it, it's just the way it is.

Edited by BlackCR25098, 10 May 2012 - 11:11 AM.

BlackCR25098, on 10 May 2012 - 11:08 AM, said:

Hachi hachi hachi! Gmme a banana..............

Edited by kx910, 10 May 2012 - 11:14 AM.

kx910, on 10 May 2012 - 11:14 AM, said:

LoL I don't get it? Making fun or?

BlackCR25098, on 10 May 2012 - 11:19 AM, said:

Haha, ur not supposed to get it! I don't even get it! Good luck man!

Edited by kx910, 10 May 2012 - 03:38 PM.

thanks guys so much!!!! Today i went out into the desert to practice weighting the outside peg and staying more centered really helped! Heck it even helped in the ruts!

Tony477g, on 10 May 2012 - 05:26 PM, said:

Kool! I used to be kinda bad at staying level with the bike while leaning it over, but I kept telling myself to stay level and lean the bike over so many times that when I got to the track, I was leaning it over too much and would fall over! By the end of the day, I was able to go through every rut perfectly (and those were some pretty deep ruts), and I was waaay faster. When you use this technique on a really hard track, you'll feel like the man cuz you'll be beating everyone out of those corners.

I just recently found out a new cornering technique that I was doing wrong, and I'm sure it will help me a lot when I go to the track some time next week. It's something that most people wouldn't think to ask about, so when you get a little more comfortable at going through ruts (another practice or 2), I'll let you know what it is. Just remember to ask me about it. I just don't really wan't to tell you what it is right now because it might overload ur brain to learn too much at once!

kx910, on 10 May 2012 - 07:49 PM, said:

For sure! The one thing i also worked on was just instead of looking at the rut directly ahead i tried keeping my head and eyes focused ahead of me, just let the bike do its thing normally. Really helped cause i was definitely going faster and i could take the shorter lines rather then go all the way out. Definitely brought up my confidence in the bike. Hopefully with the new mx51 rear i just bought it'll get me going even better!

Edited by Tony477g, 10 May 2012 - 07:56 PM.

Tony477g, on 10 May 2012 - 05:26 PM, said:

LoL It's kind of funny but basically I was really bad at corners until I started REALLY weighting that outside peg and it was one of the few things I've done that I could REALLY feel the difference. So much so that I would go on here and suggest it to other guys along with other things. Still sort of confused whether or not it's an "EVERY turn ever" technique, but it feels night/day better than not doing it.

And when you say you stay perfectly level with the bike when you lean it over, you mean you go all the way over with the bike in a turn? Like sitting in the middle of the seat just like you would if you were sitting up? Cuz if so this is something I've been doing completely wrong...A long with weighting the outside peg, I would sort of sit up on the side of the seat so my body would still be @ 90 degree angle to the ground, even though the bike was laid over...I know this is a real technique, but again probably just for 1 type of turning situation and def not all the time...I think the ruts are the only ones you can lean over with the bike so it really forces the weight straight through the bike, through tires, and into the SIDE of the rut, while it's all squatted down for ultimate traction.

Edited by BlackCR25098, 10 May 2012 - 08:07 PM.

BlackCR25098, on 10 May 2012 - 08:02 PM, said:

Ya when Im going through ruts i can feel that im with the bike, but on these hard packed I lean the bike over and stay pretty up and down, I think if you tried to lean with the bike you'd lose some traction and end up going down. Definitely like you said weighting the pegs made a crazy difference. I felt so comfortable today. Specially cause i was really using my legs

What do you mean by "knifes" on hard pack anyway ?

Thumper35, on 10 May 2012 - 09:11 PM, said:

Knifing is when the front end all of a sudden turns on you, without rider input. So for instance, you're going straight and the front catches a rut and it wants to point the front in an entire different direction. In corners, this sudden jerk motion is usually generated by hitting something in the track and the front reacting in the wrong way to it. This might be because of poor body position or bad setup.

tye1138, on 10 May 2012 - 09:21 PM, said:

I've been wondering what this term meant, and I was totally wrong on my guess. I assumed knifing was losing the front end due to bad technique and or traction...I mean I guess it definitely can be because of traction, but mainly I would think bike setup and tire condition and pressure would have the most to do with it. I've heard that raising the forks up in the triple clamps (thus shortening your wheelbase) and angling the front end to some degree makes for the best possible stability in the turns and corners, and conversely, lowering the forks in the triple clamps, thus lengthening the wheel base and raising the angle of the front makes for much more stable top speed straight line riding...But yea anyway, I was thinking this was some sort of rider/technique flaw.

I recently went with the wider front tire (MX51) and MAN, did it make a hell of a difference in how much more stable the bike felt laying it over at speed and in corners. Then again, I also had been operating on junk tires for every track experience prior to the new tires, so it could just be that...I've heard a lotta mixed reviews on the MX51 and so far so good, but I'm probably the least experienced in that regard. Any tire would seem amazing after the junk I was on.

Tye wanted to ask you a quick question, and sorry to keep bugging you, but honestly I'm learning a sh1t ton from you lately..Like up until yesterday I never really realized that 2 strokes are really steered with the rear tire until I saw you talking about it in a thread, or maybe even this one. I mean, I know that I'm on my rear tire with the front end in the air much of the time because of the power, but never really realized that was the case, and 4 strokes are more driven with the front, but it makes perfect sense being that they have so much more tractable power and we are polar opposites, but do you have any other tips or techniques to add along in learning to steer with the rear BETTER?? Maybe as far as body positioning goes coming out of the turns or wide open in a straight. All the gary s. and general riding tip videos of course say to have you balls on the gas tank, but most of those never even give tips STRICTLY on 2 strokes, and I've noticed in 2 stroke races I've watched in high speed turns and such the riders aren't always way up on the front but more in the middle or even slightly back from that while they are laid over with the bike, which even looks just like they are steering with the rear and using the front tire to point in a general direction. Most of the riding technique video's I've seen (which is a lot) are guys on 4 strokes so I mainly assume they are tips for 4 stroke guys since they are dominating the MX scene in all areas nowadays, but yea, just looking for any extra tips I can. Learning a ton from you, so thank you again.

Oh and one other thing, let me get this right...The only time that you want to be completely leaned over with the bike is when you have a nice berm, rut, or equivelant lip to give you 100% traction at that bike angle, right? And then for flat corners and sweeper turns, it is much better to try and stay up more (maybe sit on the corner or side of the seat even) while having the bike leaned over, because that situation is 0% traction at that angle, at least nothing like a nice berm, and in BOTH scenarios, you always want to weight that outside peg? Am I understanding it right now?

Griffin

If anyone knows of some real good cornering and general riding technique video's, especially for 2 strokes please post them up!! I love watching em'!

Edited by BlackCR25098, 10 May 2012 - 10:15 PM.

kx910, on 10 May 2012 - 03:37 PM, said:

Haha oh ok I gotcha and thanks

BlackCR25098, on 10 May 2012 - 09:37 PM, said:

You can rear wheel steer with any bike. My point with the OP in this particular case was trying to explain that you can simply flat track around bowl corners if you want, using the rear to steer. Four stroke, two stroke, donna make any difference. Its just another trick to throw in your bag!

BlackCR25098, on 10 May 2012 - 09:37 PM, said:

Umm, steering with the rear end is not the quickest way around the track necessarily, so its a skill thats nice to have, but its not something I practice a lot. The skill to have in my opinion is the rear brake slide transition to throttle slide. That is a very kool skill to have because you can cut someone off in a bowl corner using that trick, go in very deep, use the rear brake to slide the back end around and then yank on the throttle using the clutch to finish the slide and exit the corner. You can practice this on bowl corners, instead of riding around the bowl on the outside or taking the inside line... Go deep straight into what would normally be the apex and break slide the bike around, then use the throttle to pick it up. You're using the front/rear brake, clutch and throttle all at the same time pretty much! You wanna lean your body to the inside of the bike obviously and you can sometimes just keep your feet on the pegs if you do this trick quick enough. Slower you go, the more balance you'll need from that inside leg.

BlackCR25098, on 10 May 2012 - 09:37 PM, said:

The best scenario is having something to lean against. So a berm, rut, something of that nature. Big bowl-sweepers work the same way as a berm really, you just use it to gain some lean angle (following the angle of the bowl) but in reality, you aren't leaned over very much at all. I always try to weight my outside peg. The trick I use to make sure its weighted is to get my butt a tiny bit off the seat by using my outside foot. This technique is widely used and works wonders. Once you get use to the feeling of your butt off the seat by using your outside leg in a corner, it will feel foreign when you don't do it, which means you'll always do it! heh

BlackCR25098, on 10 May 2012 - 09:37 PM, said:

Skills 1 with Ryan Huges is the best, its done on MY bike... 125SX! LOL

tye1138, on 10 May 2012 - 11:05 PM, said:

Oh okay, I thought you meant you are using the rear wheel as your main steering point 100% of the time? But I understand it's not always the fastest and only used in those "certain situations"...I don't think there's anything that should be done constantly or always in MX.

As far as the the brake-throttle slide and cutting people off in berms, I've already witnessed this "trick" many a times just from watching SX this season. Justin Barcia seems to have that one down pretty well As well as everything else lol but isn't it just called a block pass? The whole idea being to cut off their line and kill their momentum by placing your bikes rear tire in front of theirs...You keep all of your momentum and make their cease which is an instant pass at any point in the track.

On the berm corners and leaning, you've just confirmed everything I thought so that's really good and It sounds like my method for weighting the outside peg is almost perfect. The ONLY thing I was doing that I now need to change is hovering my butt over the seat where as before I always thought I wasn't suppose to lean WITH the bike, so as I entered the corner and started to lean I would literally be standing with all my weight on the outside peg (not standing but hovering) and hover my butt over to the corner/side of the bike/seat so my body would still be vertical with the bike leaned over to push down and get as much traction as possible. So I'll still do that on flat or sweeper corners but be hovering a little and in the ruts/berms I can lean with the bike, although in that scenario when my body is fully leaned over it seems like hovering the seat may throw my balance off a tad, but I'll just have to try it out and get used to it Thanks

Edited by BlackCR25098, 10 May 2012 - 11:45 PM.

And btw tye these ryan hughes video's are the best I've seen yet, which I've watched most all of em' on youtube sadly lol but there are hardly ANY 2 stroke technique videos.

BlackCR25098, on 10 May 2012 - 11:44 PM, said:

He's pretty much talking about squaring off a corner. I've heard that doin this is slower in most cases, but then again, I don't do that, so I don't know.

BlackCR25098, on 10 May 2012 - 11:44 PM, said:

Ya know, If you are staying level with the bike while leaning over, you should be sitting with ur leg out, so how would you be hovering above the seat? I'm a little confused. Maybe I should make it clear that you only need to stay at the same angle as the bike while sitting down. And about when to stay level with the bike, and when to sit on the edge of your seat, I think you should just get a feel for it. If you feel that you have some loamy or sandy dirt, or a little rut or berm, then you will need to stay more level with it. The only time I start to sit on the edge of my seat is when I FEEL like I don't have any traction. I just observe the corner ahead, then feel the ground under my bike. I've been told that you should normally try to stay level with the bike, then use ur arms to lean the bike even more if you need traction, or if you straigtened out early before exiting a rut. I might be saying a little too much right now, so I'll get to my point....... JUST OBSERVE THE CORNER, THEN FEEL WHAT TO DO, FEEL THE TRACTION! DON'T OVERTHINK IT! (repeat that 5 times fast)

Edited by kx910, 11 May 2012 - 01:49 AM.

kx910, on 11 May 2012 - 01:40 AM, said:

Sqarin' off the corner is slower for sure. But learning how to do that skill wise, is good.

kx910, on 11 May 2012 - 01:40 AM, said:

LOL, took the words right out of my mouth!

One thing I learned about riding vehicles quickly, if you have to think about it, you're screwed!