I can't turn left!


17 replies to this topic
  • Blutarsky

Posted May 02, 2012 - 09:00 PM

#1

I have heard over and over again that turning right is harder...but man I turn right (talking about flat sweeping 4 stroke style) sooo much better.

I have done a lot of circle drill...and mini oval track drills, and going to the right, I have developed this ability to back the rear wheel in very early. I will try to get a vid eventually...but here is what I do...going right:
-Accelerating...on balls of feet...head over front fender...back flat...slight bend in knees..elbows high...the normal aggro accel position.
-Transition to braking...as I lift...let the bike flow forward under me...putting me back on the bike as I start braking. Moderate rear brake...front brake as much as will not upset things...I also start to lean the bike over very early...perhaps as soon as I start braking...while still standing up. The back end starts to hang out while I am still standing up. I use the inside of my left/outside knee to push the bike over and lean it. I also push on the bars to drive the bike into a lean. So very early in the turn...I am already leaning the bike more than my body. I know that by keeping your body in line with the lean of the bike...you are supposed to be able to hang the rear out easier...but I like the control that comes from leaning the bike more than your body.
-Transition to sitting. Flow forward on the bike... Ease off the front braking. Lift foot off inside peg as I slowly come forward...which is easy since I am already leaning the bike a lot....to maintain consistent rear brake. While transitioning to sitting...I continue to concentrate on hanging the rear out even a bit more. When I really nail it...I have very little angle on the steering. It almost feels like I am counter steering. This is a real delicate dance on the rear brake. The thing that makes this possible is that you are turning right...so you don't need weight on the inside/right peg...and it especially works if you are leaning the bike in early. I also take a long time to transition to sitting. I actually think I increase rear brake here...and because the rear starts to hang out more...a lot of the slowing down comes during this transition from standing to sitting.
-As soon as I hit the tank/seat area...I am on the gas...off the brake, and drive the right leg forward. The bike really starts to hang out once I get on the gas. I do not sit on the top of the tank/seat, but well to the outside. If you drew an angle..the bike is probably leaned over 10-15 degrees more than my body. The corner of the seat where it hits the tank is pretty much between my cheeks. Outside elbow high so my shoulders are twisted into the corner.
-In loose dirt...I will be exiting the corner heavily crossed up and steering with the throttle.

It is a lot of fun. I can do this on my mini oval...and am beginning to get confident enough to try it on the track. It is tougher on the track...because it requires a lot of corner entry speed.... a lot of commitment. On the practice oval...if you blow it...you just run wide. On a track...most corners are bermed...and if you blow it you are going for an ugly ride...so it is more daunting. Plus...to do this on a bermed corner...you have to absolutely be hauling ass...and going that fast is beyond my confidence level at this point.

Going left...I get completely discombobulated because I cant back the rear in early. I can not do the dance where I go from braking while standing up....and backing the rear in...then transition to sitting...while continuing to keep the rear hung out a little bit. This is because to use the rear brake while transitioning from standing to sitting...you have to take your foot off the peg...but since I am backing it out..and leaning the bike in...the peg is heavily weighted. When standing on the right turn...I use the inside of my outside knee to push the bike over. But I can not do that going left...once I try to transition to sitting. So if I lean the bike early...I end up standing it back up as I try to sit because I take the foot off the peg...and to control the brake..I can no longer push the bike over with the inside of my right knee.....I start to high side it. Going from a weighted outside peg...to unweighted peg....then back to a weighted peg once I get off the brake and on the gas as I sit is just a mess. I am just completely lost..... It does not flow at all.... My corner exit speed going left is probably 60% what it is going right.

How do you set the bike into a flat sweeping corner going left.... Should I lower the brake pedal a lot...so that I can transition from standing to sitting without taking a foot off the peg. Gary S, and numerous other experts all say that to transition from standing to sitting while braking...you need to take your foot off. The other option is to sit down from the start...but that is a terrible compromise if there are braking bumps, etc. It is also harder to move back...then forward when you are sitting down vs. standing.

Obviously...I am trying to do this the wrong way...since everyone says going right is harder.

Edited by Blutarsky, May 02, 2012 - 09:44 PM.


  • tye1138

Posted May 02, 2012 - 09:54 PM

#2

WOW so a whole bunch of interesting stuff there!

Few things to note...

I have heard over and over again that turning right is harder...but man I turn right (talking about flat sweeping 4 stroke style) sooo much better.


Thats because most people like to stay on the rear brake longer in the corner, keeping the rear end from unloading. Its not that turning right is "harder" its that turning right doesn't allow you to hold onto that rear brake as much. Watch some supercross, you'll see everyone NAIL the left handers, but a lot of guys mess up the right-handers, remember last season where RV was pushed off the track in qualifying AND in the LCQ?

I have done a lot of circle drill...and mini oval track drills, and going to the right, I have developed this ability to back the rear wheel in very early.


As you probably have found out by now, a flat-surface mini-oval track is actually pretty far away from a motocross track. Yep, its nice to have the "drifting" abilities for sure. Riding on an oval track teaches you a lot of skills when it comes to throttle control, that is critical to learning how to ride better. When I first started riding, I set up an oval track using cones up at the local OHV park in a vacated sand parking lot, learned a lot in one day! Take those skills to the MX track where you've got berms and ruts to deal with and its a whole other story, you won't need to use those skills as much.


Transition to braking Transition to sitting


I think once you hit a berm, everything you're talking about is gonna go out the window.

I'm gonna give you a right-turn example... Its not a perfect example, but its the only thing I got besides stills.

- Enter corner on the brakes (front and rear)
- Down shift into appropriate gear for corner
- Look at apex of corner with your eyes (pinpoint)
- Right before the apex, move weight forward on bike and sit down (as far forward as you can get) still on the brakes, weighting outside peg
- At apex, look through the corner towards the exit, get off the front brake, get off the rear brake, get your leg up and use the throttle to steer that back end around and square off the corner.

No time to dilly dally and in fact, the act of sitting and turning the bike should all be one at once. In my example (below) I was obviously being lazy... sitting a few feet before the actual apex of the corner.

example: tye1138.com/stuff/quickcorner.mov

Going left...I get completely discombobulated because I cant back the rear in early.


Too much rear brake... when going left you can just hammer the rear brake and it kills momentum.

I can not do the dance where I go from braking while standing up....and backing the rear in...then transition to sitting...while continuing to keep the rear hung out a little bit. This is because to use the rear brake while transitioning from standing to sitting...you have to take your foot off the peg.


Heh, thats a simple adjustment. You can lower the brake lever and keep your boot nice and square on the peg still. I have my lever so low, I can put tuns of pressure on the peg AND still modulate the lever no problem. :banghead:

When standing on the right turn...I use the inside of my outside knee to push the bike over.


You shouldn't have to do that, though its not necessarily a bad thing. On the lil pingers I ride, this is a moot subject because they have telepathic steering, the rider doesn't need to give it much input. But when I ride 4 strokes, I usually start the steering before I sit down and use the throttle to do most of the work, RV style. Its more fun that way and it gives you a quicker, more straight-forward trajectory.

Going from a weighted outside peg...to unweighted peg....then back to a weighted peg once I get off the brake and on the gas as I sit is just a mess. I am just completely lost..... It does not flow at all....


Nope, that sounds like no fun to me! So yea, get your lever adjusted! Once you get off that rear brake, the rear unloads, so its much better to figure out ONE movement, rather then on and off.

How do you set the bike into a flat sweeping corner going left.... I am just lost....


Exactly the same way as right, only you have that rear brake throughout the corner at your disposal.

So this example is a very fast berm right after a 60 foot table top. So you hit the table top and there is this beautiful left hand corner leading to a step up table top.

So the first pix is at the end of the transition between standing and sitting. Notice how far forward I am on the bike, pretty much on the tank filler and both my legs are still back on the pegs at this point in the corner. I'm looking at the apex of the corner as well. You can tell I'm on the rear brake because the rear tire is "dragging" dirt behind it.

Posted Image

Transition between braking and throttle (leg out, elbows up, throttle on) though still on the rear brake to help modulate power output. Notice the truck steering with the front end. This is how you get the rear to come out! Don't need to put any body movements into it at all. Notice I've slid back slightly on the seat, that is from me literally sliding back on the seat slightly under throttle.

Posted Image

Rear end is stepping out perfectly, rear brake is released and off we go! Still very forward on the seat.

Posted Image

Practice makes perfect!!! WOOPS!!!!

Posted Image

Edited by tye1138, May 02, 2012 - 10:03 PM.


  • Blutarsky

Posted May 02, 2012 - 10:08 PM

#3

tye,

With the lever that low...do you have a hard time reaching it when braking while standing? I tried it low once before...and hated it... I guess I will have to adjust....the brake and myself.

  • humpness

Posted May 02, 2012 - 10:14 PM

#4

Made me think of zoolander. "I'm not an ambi turner"

  • tye1138

Posted May 02, 2012 - 10:57 PM

#5

With the lever that low...do you have a hard time reaching it when braking while standing? I tried it low once before...and hated it... I guess I will have to adjust....the brake and myself.


On the KTM its no problem, I've not found that to be the case on the Japanese bikes however. KTM just does a better job with the location of the brake lever, I also use aftermarket pegs. But you've gotta remember; 80% of your stopping power comes from the front brakes, which is why I start with them before hitting the rear. I use the rear brake as a tool to keep the rear from unloading mid corner and to help generate a drift/slide. But both of those actions are quick, just tap the lever and your done sorta deals.

Its taken me, ohhhh two years to set up my bike to do all these tricks properly. Lots of adjusting, lots of aftermarket parts... its not "easy" and it can be costly, but in the end, you should be able to make all the controls work sitting/standing, flying, cornering... The aftermarket pegs I'm running are a huge hand, they are tall in the center and roll off in the front and back. So that means its easy to roll forward and hit the brake lever, whilst you are still putting pressure on the peg. Sometimes I get lazy and just hammer the rear brake, as depicted in the video above if you look closely.

Edited by tye1138, May 02, 2012 - 11:01 PM.


  • c-slak

Posted May 03, 2012 - 06:36 AM

#6

Made me think of zoolander. "I'm not an ambi turner"

Hey, some people just aren't made to hang a Louie!

  • Dirt Addict

Posted May 03, 2012 - 02:53 PM

#7

no future in nascar that fer sure.... :banghead:

  • tye1138

Posted May 03, 2012 - 03:44 PM

#8

no future in nascar that fer sure.... :banghead:


I was just gonna say!!! LOL

  • Dirt Addict

Posted May 03, 2012 - 03:53 PM

#9

as far as the aftermarket stuff, I'm not so sure you need to spend $$$. I'm riding a stock yz125 complete with a bent rear brake lever, old fluids , worn pads , bent clutch lever , oem bars, oem suspension for which I'm 30lbs too heavy, and way too many loose spokes on wobbly rims. I'm more comfortable and faster on this bike than I have been on anything I have previously owned, from 450's on down. I adjusted the controls for me, and by my 3rd ride it was dialed in.....

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  • Thumper35

Posted May 03, 2012 - 04:00 PM

#10

Made me think of zoolander. "I'm not an ambi turner"


Me too !! Lol

  • Blutarsky

Posted May 03, 2012 - 04:54 PM

#11

The aftermarket pegs I'm running are a huge hand, they are tall in the center and roll off in the front and back. So that means its easy to roll forward and hit the brake lever, whilst you are still putting pressure on the peg.


What kind of pegs are those....

  • tye1138

Posted May 03, 2012 - 05:02 PM

#12

What kind of pegs are those....


Stealthworks designed them, but they're a small shop and nobody sells them.

These MSR's are different, but similar idea: Exclusive CAMBER cleat design aids in enhanced rider
positioning and control

http://www.motocross..._p/342742tr.htm

Edited by tye1138, May 03, 2012 - 05:03 PM.


  • Blutarsky

Posted May 03, 2012 - 08:49 PM

#13

Thanks Tye.

As for turning left...I was watching a bunch of vids,,,and noticed is not not done at all like many say. Everyone always says weight the outside peg...but you dont do that...at least going left...till you are well into the corner, and getting off the brake / on the gas.



Check out Gary's braking vid...



Look at 1:35. I know this is a bermed turn..but right foot is not even on the peg till he gets OFF the brake.


Same thing on this flat corner vid..



Over and over again on the left turn...you can see that the foot never gets on the peg till he is getting on the the throttle/off the brake...

So I know what to do now...

Edited by Blutarsky, May 03, 2012 - 08:50 PM.


  • tye1138

Posted May 03, 2012 - 09:06 PM

#14

Thats right, you don't need to be on the peg until that transition period between corner entry and twisting the bike at the apex.

However, if you wanna drag the break on exit to keep the bike loaded, that's a whole other story.

On a 4 stroke, you really don't need to learn that skill in my opinion. I never use it when I ride 4 strokes, only really use it on the pinger.

  • motoxhead

Posted May 06, 2012 - 08:15 PM

#15

Most situations will have you going from weighting with the arch/heel as you brake then move to the ball for traction and balance.

Edited by motoxhead, May 06, 2012 - 08:22 PM.


  • Blutarsky

Posted May 08, 2012 - 12:21 AM

#16

Most situations will have you going from weighting with the arch/heel as you brake then move to the ball for traction and balance.



I understand that...but to properly brake, and continue to brake while transitioning from standing to sitting...you have to take your right foot off the peg. This makes right and left turns fundamentally different.

For a right turn, the foot you take off the peg does not matter...it is your inside foot. This means you can lean the bike in earlier because your are maintaining constant loading on the outside peg. I really like to over lean...meaning lean the bike much more than my body. To do this going right...I NEVER sit on the top of the tank/seat. When I sit down, I already have the bike leaned farther than the body...and I sit on the corner/side of the tank/seat. The bike is leaned more than my body...which gets the tire onto the side knobs...and makes for lot more grip.

For a left turn, you can not weight the outside peg early..because you are using the brake..and to use the brake properly (I am going to side with Gary Semics on this one...the foot must be off the peg)...you have to be weighting the bike by sitting on the seat. This means you can not over-lean the bike as early. In fact...over leaning the bike and weighting the outside peg...are pretty synonymous. When people stress weighting the outside peg...I think they are really talking about overleaning the bike some. You can only over lean and get your butt over on the side of the seat/tank, after you get on the the throttle and off the brake, and have that outside foot on the peg. Overleaning requires you to sit on the corner/side of the seat...and doing that without a foot on the peg to hold you on the bike will not end well.

Edited by Blutarsky, May 08, 2012 - 12:24 AM.


  • tye1138

Posted May 08, 2012 - 05:16 PM

#17

Heh, too much over-thinking being done here! LOL :banghead:

  • motoxhead

Posted May 08, 2012 - 06:25 PM

#18

The foot most certainly doesn't have to be off the peg to be used properly when taking a left turn. I do a few left turns here without taking my foot off the peg.


Edited by motoxhead, May 08, 2012 - 06:37 PM.






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