I don't know. Not that I have anything against neck braces or for them, I just had the oppertunity to try one and it doesn't bother me to wear it or not. 6th place expert and like 16th overall for my first race back in a year I pretty happy. I raced this weekend without it and it didn't make any difference in my confidence level or not. I really think that's where safety stems from, how confident are you with or with out safety equipment. If you feel safer and faster in any sort of gear, wear it, if not don't. Its the same thing when it comes to chest protectors. I messed my shoulder up with one last year, I still were one as it inspires confidence. I have never had a neck injury to date so it doesn't really say much when it comes to if it works or not.
Atlas vs Leatt
Started by
kxrider651
, Apr 30 2012 03:18 PM
149 replies to this topic
Posted 01 May 2012 - 06:33 PM
c-slak, on 01 May 2012 - 05:54 PM, said:
I will be the first to admit that I am no expert. That being said I really don't see these as being obvious remedies to a broken neck. As someone stated earlier it is compression of your neck that is the thing you have to look out for most. Just look at the picture of the guy with the Atlas brace on above. There is no way that any of these braces would sufficiently limit compression unless they basically were resting right below the helmet. Which none do because we need to move our heads when we ride. All of the rest of the motions that can occur in a wreck look to me to be more dangerous with a neck brace on. The helmet and neck brace combined can act as a fulcrum which will put load on your spine in a very unnatural way.
If you do a simple search on this and many other forums you will find many people who have broken their spines and/or backs while wearing these devices. I am the first who would love to be protected from paralyzation. I don't think any of us who don't wear them are doing it for the tuff guy effect. I bought one, wore it for one day and it honestly made me very nervous to be wearing a solid piece of plastic around my neck that in many circumstances feels like it could really hurt me. Try doing a sumersault in one. I did that in the back yard, took it off, and never wore it again. I felt the plastic dig into my upper spine when the back piece hit the ground. Multiply that by 40 mph and it scared the crap out of me.
If there is ever any proof I will be the very first in line to purchase one.
If you do a simple search on this and many other forums you will find many people who have broken their spines and/or backs while wearing these devices. I am the first who would love to be protected from paralyzation. I don't think any of us who don't wear them are doing it for the tuff guy effect. I bought one, wore it for one day and it honestly made me very nervous to be wearing a solid piece of plastic around my neck that in many circumstances feels like it could really hurt me. Try doing a sumersault in one. I did that in the back yard, took it off, and never wore it again. I felt the plastic dig into my upper spine when the back piece hit the ground. Multiply that by 40 mph and it scared the crap out of me.
If there is ever any proof I will be the very first in line to purchase one.
Posted 01 May 2012 - 06:41 PM
Tony477g, on 01 May 2012 - 06:17 PM, said:
I did it, one major problem though, not sure if its just my helmet or what, to perform it instead of the leatt resting on it my jaw was. I can see some major damage being done to the jaw. As for the sumersault it is harder to do but not to much harder
I emotionally really want to wear one because I would like to do anything possible to prevent serious injury as I have a family to take care of. I just feel like it is an emotional purchase without much, if any, real science behind the products out there. I was really hoping that when the Atlas came out so would some legitimate testing as they said they were extensively testing it. Maybe I haven't looked hard enough but I am not finding any.
I do feel that there are some circumstances that they could help you avoid spinal injury. I also feel like there are other circumstances that it could also cause spinal injury. If they could even show me that there were more circumstances it could help than hurt I might even be sold.
Posted 01 May 2012 - 06:49 PM
c-slak, on 01 May 2012 - 06:41 PM, said:
I am not saying that the somersault was too difficult to do, I was referring to the wing or whatever you call it in the back hitting the ground and pushing the brace into my spine and neck. Imagine landing flat on your back. If the spine piece does break as its designed to then you have a 3" donut of plastic driving into your neck. I did also notice the jaw thing like you did.
I emotionally really want to wear one because I would like to do anything possible to prevent serious injury as I have a family to take care of. I just feel like it is an emotional purchase without much, if any, real science behind the products out there. I was really hoping that when the Atlas came out so would some legitimate testing as they said they were extensively testing it. Maybe I haven't looked hard enough but I am not finding any.
I do feel that there are some circumstances that they could help you avoid spinal injury. I also feel like there are other circumstances that it could also cause spinal injury. If they could even show me that there were more circumstances it could help than hurt I might even be sold.
I emotionally really want to wear one because I would like to do anything possible to prevent serious injury as I have a family to take care of. I just feel like it is an emotional purchase without much, if any, real science behind the products out there. I was really hoping that when the Atlas came out so would some legitimate testing as they said they were extensively testing it. Maybe I haven't looked hard enough but I am not finding any.
I do feel that there are some circumstances that they could help you avoid spinal injury. I also feel like there are other circumstances that it could also cause spinal injury. If they could even show me that there were more circumstances it could help than hurt I might even be sold.
The whole spine design is stupid. Have you tried to bend backwards with the leatt on, It puts a ton of pressure on the middle portion of the spine. I agree the more i look at it the less im convinced. How can your neck hyperextend if your chest can stop it. I can see the shoulder and back but not the chest. As for the donut going into your neck, Im not sure that whole back peice collapses, Ive landed on my back and the back part collapsed, who knows there are just to many variables in crashes
Posted 01 May 2012 - 07:05 PM
jjhubbard15, on 01 May 2012 - 06:33 PM, said:
all i know is i speared very hard in some rough rocky stuff, my shoulders are still very sore (3 days later) but my neck is just fine, tells me it routed all the energy from the top of my helmet into my shoulders, just as it should.
To be honest if someone could even compile enough data showing that neck injuries in the last 5 years due to bike crashes has gone down that might be enough anecdotal evidence for me. The fact is if every person that has claimed that their neck brace has saved them on an internet forum is correct, the numbers should be astoundingly different.
Posted 01 May 2012 - 07:21 PM
Tony477g, on 01 May 2012 - 06:49 PM, said:
The whole spine design is stupid. Have you tried to bend backwards with the leatt on, It puts a ton of pressure on the middle portion of the spine. I agree the more i look at it the less im convinced. How can your neck hyperextend if your chest can stop it. I can see the shoulder and back but not the chest. As for the donut going into your neck, Im not sure that whole back peice collapses, Ive landed on my back and the back part collapsed, who knows there are just to many variables in crashes
Posted 01 May 2012 - 07:38 PM
When I hear all of the emotional "It saved me" and "I feel safer" testimonials,they just make me cringe. How can anyone feel safe with a plastic collar on their neck, it just boggles my mind. I crashed over the bars last week going over 50 miles per hour, hit on the back of my helmet and my neck isn't sore either, so that comment doesn't mean squat.
If it hurts at all in a no-speed test, come on think about it a little.
If it hurts at all in a no-speed test, come on think about it a little.
Posted 02 May 2012 - 08:10 PM
So why not wear just the semi soft neck roll from evs or similar? It would seem to limit the range of motion that could occur in a get off, but not introduce some of the other issues with adding unnecessary force on other body parts. They are also relatively inexpensive. I have my boys in one, but. I don't wear one. The stiffer braces just done seem comfortable to me, but I do think they have potential to help in a crash. I would like to see a semi soft version with a little more contoured shape.
Posted 03 May 2012 - 12:17 AM
honestly i bought my leatt because it looks cool. there is no research to show it will do more damage in a crash and there is no research saying it will do less damage, but there are more people syaing it has saved them so those odds are good enough for me,
Posted 03 May 2012 - 04:12 AM
A X E, on 02 May 2012 - 08:10 PM, said:
So why not wear just the semi soft neck roll from evs or similar? It would seem to limit the range of motion that could occur in a get off, but not introduce some of the other issues with adding unnecessary force on other body parts. They are also relatively inexpensive. I have my boys in one, but. I don't wear one. The stiffer braces just done seem comfortable to me, but I do think they have potential to help in a crash. I would like to see a semi soft version with a little more contoured shape.
thats what im leaning towards. I might buy an EVS RC3 for a whopping $30.
Posted 03 May 2012 - 08:34 AM
I have found this and many other articles...I assume you are all Doctors. Otherwise why on earth would you disagree with a Doctor as well respected as Doc Bodnar? He has nothing to gain by promoting neck braces. I'm sure Doc Bodnar would like nothing more than to sit in the stands and watch the races b/c his services are not needed. And how is this a fabrication and emotional marketing by Leatte? They had absolutely nothing to do with Doc Bodnar's opinion and analysis of the crash.
One thing I can speak very confidently about is the reason why neck brace broke. I have a Masters Degree in Mechanical Engineering and worked as a analytic engineer for 12 years. It is my professional opinion that the forces absorbed by the neck brace may in fact have saved Trey's life. Or at least lessened his injuries significantly. The amount of energy absorbed by the brace is obvious from the breaks. And if you look at the picture of Trey's neck, it is the brace that is stopping any further deflection of his head toward his chest.
I'm a huge proponent of chest protectors but in this case I do not see how a chest protector could have lessened the injuries. To my knowledge neither rider suffered any chest injuries that a chest protector would have prevented. Perhaps Ryan's collapsed lung, but was not able to clearly see if anything jabbed him in the chest during the crash. I would speculate that the collapsed lung was caused by the blunt force trauma of hitting the ground so hard.
One other thing to consider. The rider who did not have on a brace suffered significantly greater spinal injuries than the rider who did.
Couple of other points to consider about my post before you respond:
1. I could personally care less if they make neck braces mandatory. As a matter of fact I hope it always remains up to the rider (at least on the professional level) what protection they have to wear.
2. I am in no way affiliated with any of the neck brace companies.
3. Wear a neck brace or don't. It's up to you but I would rather see riders wearing them. At least then over time we will be able to track and see if they actually do work.
4. David Bailey is a proponent of neck braces and from where he sits how can you argue with that.There are alot of pro racers wearing them...and tell me why is it Doc Bodnar is pro neck brace... cause they work.....
One thing I can speak very confidently about is the reason why neck brace broke. I have a Masters Degree in Mechanical Engineering and worked as a analytic engineer for 12 years. It is my professional opinion that the forces absorbed by the neck brace may in fact have saved Trey's life. Or at least lessened his injuries significantly. The amount of energy absorbed by the brace is obvious from the breaks. And if you look at the picture of Trey's neck, it is the brace that is stopping any further deflection of his head toward his chest.
I'm a huge proponent of chest protectors but in this case I do not see how a chest protector could have lessened the injuries. To my knowledge neither rider suffered any chest injuries that a chest protector would have prevented. Perhaps Ryan's collapsed lung, but was not able to clearly see if anything jabbed him in the chest during the crash. I would speculate that the collapsed lung was caused by the blunt force trauma of hitting the ground so hard.
One other thing to consider. The rider who did not have on a brace suffered significantly greater spinal injuries than the rider who did.
Couple of other points to consider about my post before you respond:
1. I could personally care less if they make neck braces mandatory. As a matter of fact I hope it always remains up to the rider (at least on the professional level) what protection they have to wear.
2. I am in no way affiliated with any of the neck brace companies.
3. Wear a neck brace or don't. It's up to you but I would rather see riders wearing them. At least then over time we will be able to track and see if they actually do work.
4. David Bailey is a proponent of neck braces and from where he sits how can you argue with that.There are alot of pro racers wearing them...and tell me why is it Doc Bodnar is pro neck brace... cause they work.....
Edited by motodadgp, 03 May 2012 - 08:35 AM.
Posted 03 May 2012 - 07:51 PM
I tried on an Omega neck brace at Cycle Gear and of all the stiffer braces, it was the most comfortable aound the body and allowed easy head movement. It secures with a harness underarm an fit across the shoulders nicely. I may get the enduro version and one of their brace compatible chest and back protectors.
http://www.omegabrace.com/products
http://www.omegabrace.com/products
Posted 03 May 2012 - 10:50 PM
For the record, the leatt was not designed to prevent neck injuries from swing arm and linkage injuries when a bike lands on your head. Nor does it prevent a broken spine from a tire to your back. To many variables in mechanism to injury in a mx crash. We, as riders accept liability for ourselves. Old school or new school, i think we all want to believe in some magic force field that will protect us from evil, but it just doesn't exist.
Posted 03 May 2012 - 10:58 PM
Pumpkin450sxf, on 01 May 2012 - 04:54 PM, said:
How is this brace going to prevent a compression fracture with a distance of at least three inches from his helmet to the brace ???????? Damage is done long before contact to the brace.
Posted 04 May 2012 - 07:58 AM
Thumper35, on 03 May 2012 - 10:58 PM, said:
How is this brace going to prevent a compression fracture with a distance of at least three inches from his helmet to the brace ???????? Damage is done long before contact to the brace.
I agree, I don't have the longest neck either. The only thing I really see this brace or any brace doing is stopping hyper extension of the neck. Especially going all the way back or from side to side. The mouth guard will dig into my chest stopping my neck from rolling farther forward.
Maybe the neck brace will go along the same lines as a kidney belt!?
Then again I have some sweet custom decals coming for my Atlas.
Posted 09 May 2012 - 09:47 PM
I am an emergency physician just like Dr Bodnar and I completely disagree with his logic and think the brace does more harm than good. So, using his opinion as fact is pretty pointless.
Posted 10 May 2012 - 06:30 AM
davbrucas, on 09 May 2012 - 09:47 PM, said:
I am an emergency physician just like Dr Bodnar and I completely disagree with his logic and think the brace does more harm than good. So, using his opinion as fact is pretty pointless.
So using your opinion as fact is pretty pointless too.
