Determing if I should use a "tubeless" system?
Posted 30 April 2012 - 12:00 PM
So my questions:
Does anything really beat just using a $40 UHD tube???
I can change a tire and tube pretty damn easy, none of these look any easier than that. Am I missing something?
Will any of these effect my speed, whether faster or slower?
Posted 30 April 2012 - 12:30 PM
Using "used" tires with the tubliss system is another story though. I think the main issue comes around because a standard rimlock can leave impressions in the tire making it not want to seal airtight to the rim. I think that as long as the tire has not been used with a standard type rimlock you should be OK swapping tires out as long as they have only been used with the Tubliss setup. Call Jeff at Nuetech (or email). He is VERY helpful and responds quickly.
In the two years using Tubliss I have never punctured or damaged the red liner or the inner tube. I have, however, put many holes in the tires themselves (roughly 8-10 in two years that caused leaks). They are easily and quickly repaired with a tire plug kit. I can find, fix, and inflate the tire in about 5 min and be back riding or racing. Or, you can just run the tire flat if you want. I rode 50+ miles on a flat rear last weekend without issue because the innertube was not flat and the red liner held the tire to the rim around the whole bead (even though the tire its self was flat).
I can also run lower PSI because pinch flats are not a worry anymore.
One thing to note is that checking pressure in the inner tube is mandatory before each ride as it looses pressure over time and if it gets below 80 psi or so it won't hold the bead and you will have a flat tire that needs to be reset to pump back up.
I don't think I really got any less flats in the past two years as I did using UHD tubes (maybe slightly less, but that could be a coincidence), but (and this is a huge but for me) I can usually fix the flat trailside in 5 min and be riding again since I carry a tire plug kit and a small pump with me.
I did not notice any improvement in performance from the claimed weight loss, but that is not why I got them.
Posted 30 April 2012 - 03:08 PM
Will save about a pound on the rear.
One problem with running low, or zero, tire pressure with tube type tires is the casing will begin to leak air. My fix for a badly abused and leaking S-12 was to paint the inside of the casing with Slime. This tire had several leaks thru the casing probably caused from running 6psi for a year plus the exit rides at zero pressure after the punctures.
My three Tubliss systems don't lose much air but before every ride I air up the inner tire with a 125psi compressor which results in 105-110psi in the inner tire.
Posted 30 April 2012 - 03:15 PM
I am heavy so it may be a factor, my friend uses them and he is light and has not had a failure yet
Posted 30 April 2012 - 06:45 PM
The red liners are very durable and the actual little high pressure tubes are only like $5 at Motosport. I think the problem with remounting comes from using a tire that has used a standard rim lock which likely causes problems when setting/sealing. I've never had a problem remounting tires that had only been used with the tubless since they were new.
Posted 01 May 2012 - 03:33 AM
but they are a bit more work when changing tires (but having a set of spare wheels, so you can change wheels instead of tires for different conditions, solves that). and expensive when you ruin the red liner. i´ve ruined two, but thats my fault, not tubliss´
Posted 01 May 2012 - 06:47 AM
Posted 01 May 2012 - 07:22 AM
Will save about a pound on the rear.
Did you weigh them yourself?
According to my scale, running a HD tube + rim lock is about .2 pound heavier per wheel than the tubliss. That's less than 1/2lb for both wheels.
Posted 01 May 2012 - 08:15 AM
Posted 01 May 2012 - 08:28 AM
The tubliss system still has a metal (aluminum) rimlock, so unless you balanced your tire (something you could do with a standard tube setup too) it will still be unbalanced.
Posted 01 May 2012 - 09:22 AM
The rim lock in the tubliss setup is much much lighter than the standard rim lock. I tend to feel things normal people don't on my bike.
Posted 01 May 2012 - 09:27 AM
One of those picky riders, huh? JK
Posted 01 May 2012 - 11:34 AM
I've listened to Mike Sigety's review on the Bib Mousse, Tire Balls, and UHD Tubes. My money keeps sending me back to the UHD Tubes. I'm not a pro, so a DNF isn't costing me a sponsor, just a crappy week of self-loathing.
I know nothing is gonig to be perfect. I just am concerned about throwing about a couple 100 on something that may or may not keep me in a non-paying, over the hill class, harescramble race .
Posted 01 May 2012 - 11:55 AM
If you can't afford 5 min to fix the puncture in your races then I don't see enough benefit in the tubliss system to justify the cost IMO. However, you can keep racing on a flat tubliss system (assuming the small innertube still has air) much easier and safer than you can a flat tube system. That may be worth something to you.
Edited by woods-rider, 01 May 2012 - 11:57 AM.
Posted 01 May 2012 - 04:37 PM
Right there it is! Hell, I bet I could fix a puncture flat on a Tubliss in under two minutes if I hustled. Two, or even five, minutes is still way quicker than fixing a tube and you can still ride and even race on a Tubliss equipped bike. If your not an AA Pro, with sponsors, trying to win a championship, with big $$$ on the line, why can't you take five minutes to fix a puncture with the Tubliss? A flat tube ends your race...period! I think that will eat up way more than 5 minutes as you limp your bike back to the staging area. It is no contest for me which I choose!
Edited by SS109, 01 May 2012 - 04:41 PM.
Posted 02 May 2012 - 04:46 AM
My concern is this: A flat tube won't end my race. I ran 4 more laps this weekend on a flat (30miles) to win my A-Vet class. Had I been running tubliss, and I had a sidewall cut, I wouldn't have been able to fix it because I don't carry tools in harescrambles (enduros, yes), I likely wouldn't have then risked riding on the tubliss flat for the 30miles for fear of damaging my $100 tubliss system, therefore just limping back to the pits. Perhaps I'm overthinking the whole situation, but when you have 3 hungry mouths to feed, throwing $100 at a product needs to be thought out.
Posted 02 May 2012 - 06:11 AM
Edited by woods-rider, 02 May 2012 - 06:11 AM.
Posted 02 May 2012 - 07:11 AM
If your winning vetA races, you are rolling.. I race srA so we would be on the front row together I found HD tubes a waste, and as you know are heavy and more cumbersome to install in the first place. You have yet to mention your tire PSI ?? If i run ANYTHING 12psi or LOWER i get pinch flats.. plain and simple, HD tubes or not. hitting roots at your pace with less than optimal psi your gonna get a flat sooner or later. I run 13.5-14psi NO FLATS. Would 12-11 feel a little better? yes, in some sections.
The tubliss system looks pretty cool, i would never run 8psi even if ya could though, i put my friends rim with tubliss on with that psi and for my pace, it just feels too mushy and unresponsive with less feel on the front. He also has shown up to a race and needed to find someone with 100psi capability to bead his tire back up when he didn't do it right the first time when mounting a tire.. it has to be spotless and no defects as the tire bead is what seals to the rim (like a street bike or auto tire).
Edited by MELK-MAN, 02 May 2012 - 07:12 AM.