longtimelurker, on 30 April 2012 - 03:31 PM, said:

if you disagree with what I posted you have a strange way of communicating that,  but this is the internet,  those that cant form an argument do the above

longtimelurker, on 30 April 2012 - 01:49 PM, said:

You aren't arguing which is better ? ok.....Why is it funny?  Of course you and I know that current technology 2 stroke open class bikes from major manufacturers don't exist. I am simply putting what is right now . That's just an example of what any one of us can buy right now. That's just close to what could be with an engine from long ago.... It's a home made hybrid bike on steroids is all with new parts. Also if major manufacturers would make open class 2 stroke dirt bikes how much do you think it would cost? I'd guess around the same as a 450 crf range and the maintenance and reliability would be much better.  I like 2 strokes and I like 4 strokes. I don't like the unfair rules of racing though.. I don't like how much it costs when a 4 stroke blows compared to a 2 stroke.  I have an 09' 525 Beta and a cr 250 honda. I love them both...but I was concerned about getting the 4 stroke . Supposedly the rfs ktm motor is supposed to be reliable . I hope so at least. ....but this thread is about who would want an open class 2 stroke class.  I would. I miss it. Open expert class was the biggest baddest class when I was growing up. Everyone pressed closer to the fences to see the start and riding a big bore and winning meant you had to be a good rider. You don't need to turn on the throttle for long and you are already braking for the next corner.. I miss it and I think it would be great for the sport to bring it back.

hawaiidirtrider, on 30 April 2012 - 11:28 AM, said:

As awesome as the old 500's were I don't think you would see many of them if they made the 450 class an open class. All that power is wasted on a track. The key is winning in the turns. Being able to go in fast, negotiate the turn, and exit quickly is a product of braking, handling, and traction limitations given the quality of engines currently produced. A light 300cc 2 stroke with a long power curve will probably be ideal. 500cc's of 2 stroke power would be heavier than necessary and offer little rewards in terms of usable power if not outright making it harder.

MrBlahh, on 30 April 2012 - 05:30 PM, said:

If you can't comprehend then I am not going to take the time to re-explain in some way that you might be able to understand.

hawaiidirtrider, on 30 April 2012 - 06:17 PM, said:

There are lots of things and rules I don't like in the world....we just have to live in it.

Iberian, on 01 May 2012 - 09:14 AM, said:

Of course riding a 500cc and bigger bike is harder. That's why it's a different class . Most of the time the 250 class was faster in the past . This is about running an open  500cc+  2 stroke class. 300's don't need to be invited. Make it 400cc and above or whatever to make it fair. An open class 2 stroke  unlimited class sounds right to me. We see already where 350's are being used in the 450 class now so going intermediate has it's benefits but that's not is the alure to me. It's just running big bore bikes. ..at least I think that's what the original poster means....real big bore bikes.2 strokes are harder and different to ride. The speed and power are  more difficult to control and go fast.

hawaiidirtrider, on 30 April 2012 - 01:05 PM, said:

This little note about the 250 smoker lap time stuff is right on the money.  A couple of years ago, during a winter deepfreeze, I had time to research this, and I found this out.  I looked at three different levels of racers: the top-level superstars, then at the 5th place rider at each event, then the 10th place rider.  I looked at 2004 and 2005 lap-time data, being sure to select the riders aboard the 250's, then compared lap-time info from 2006-2007, using same criteria.  I found that even on a rough outdoor track in the heat of summer, the guys, across the board, were much closer in lap-times from lap 3. to lap 8, then lap 11 when they rode 250 2-stokes.  When those same guys moved to the 450's , you could see their times drop off, often considerably, in the later laps.  I imagine some of this is due to the weight of the 450, plus the effect the big bikes has on the track, as it seems to make the tracks more rough and choppy than the when mostly smokers were on the gate.  I have to say that the 250 was much easier to race with less fatigue.

hawaiidirtrider, on 01 May 2012 - 10:23 AM, said:

So you want more guys hurt?

thsp485, on 01 May 2012 - 10:23 AM, said:

And the tracks are always the same from year to year, month to month, day to day, race to race, lap to lap?

longtimelurker, on 01 May 2012 - 10:13 AM, said:

I totally agree. We can leave everything as it is and adapt to what everyone else tells us we can and can't do.   We also can make our own rules and create what we want.. This is just a simple thread about opening up an old idea that has already been realized and expanding on it. That isn't even very imaginative at all. That's just saying lets put it like it was . Is that so repugnant to you? Are your dreams that crushed that you don't even want to allow free thought in your head?.. I don't beleve that. Shake it off.  It's not that much of a stretch. There's already an open class in vintage racing. I think it's more a matter of organizing and getting enough racers with bikes that fit the class to show up in one class. Easy or hard ...I don't know but just talking about it is how things are made.

http://dev.ahrma.org/?page_id=45

longtimelurker, on 01 May 2012 - 10:35 AM, said:

You aren't in troll mode now ..come on.

You can make any kind of track to make it safer of course. The tracks are way more dangerous than they were in the 70's.

How dangerous is this track?...not much and look at the bikes...old open 2 strokes with old dated suspension.
Just look at the open class racing track vids shown so far....just as dangerous as any current track and probably safer.

Edited by hawaiidirtrider, 01 May 2012 - 11:08 AM.

hawaiidirtrider, on 01 May 2012 - 10:37 AM, said:

My dreams of racing pro left many years ago so I don't know why I would care what they race at the pro level.  I do know that at my age I CAN race whatever bike I want to, as can all the other vets and I see VERY few if ANY riding a big bore 2T.
The big bore had its time and it is gone.

hawaiidirtrider, on 01 May 2012 - 11:06 AM, said:

So you want them to also change the tracks between races too?  Come on.  I wish a lot of things but pipe dreams are let go of pretty quick

longtimelurker, on 01 May 2012 - 11:59 AM, said:

I guess you aren't part troll...

Here is 2T vid for you:

longtimelurker, on 01 May 2012 - 11:57 AM, said:

So your dreams are over so no one else can have fun? Damn that's just too depressing.. .You're one of those take the ball home so no one else can play guys... Ride what you want and have a nice day.  Don't worry about the rest of us looking at what is already in vintage races and what could be with bigger bore 2 strokes.. Lurker  what the hell? You're like one of those grumpy old men chasing kids out of your yard.  The big bore is not dead as long as there are making and guys are riding service honda type big bore 2 strokes. Go rain on someone elses parade and leave guys with an open mind alone. ...Really it's ok.

Look old guys riding big bore 2 strokes.. How old are you? You can't be that old to not want to have fun.

longtimelurker, on 01 May 2012 - 12:33 PM, said:

Hey Thanks!!! very nice of you.  Looks like a pretty fun ride too.

Excuse me now. I'm going to ride my mellow 4 stroke big bore now. It's not so radical like a cr 500. It's just my Beta 525. Here's my very first vid when it was brand new. There's something to be said for street legal dirt bikes... fun fun fun.

Edited by hawaiidirtrider, 01 May 2012 - 01:15 PM.

hawaiidirtrider, on 01 May 2012 - 01:06 PM, said:

I am sure there are people that wish the computer hadn't been invented so they could still keep records with pen and pencil too.  It's called evolution.  BTW, again, I ride a 2T and I agree, ride what you want to ride but there won't be a big bore open class in the AMA.

longtimelurker, on 01 May 2012 - 01:12 PM, said:

Maybe .. Maybe not.   Before no one thought a 4 stroke would ever come back in the mid 70's. So now it's come full circle. There's no proof it can't go the other way around. How many people said then that there would never be any 4 strokes racing and winning motocross... by the way  we had a great ride..pretty close to where the vid of my Beta was. ..a little wet here and there but nice anyway... just came back. .. We had our street legal bikes just in case we got caught too deep and too dark.

Edited by hawaiidirtrider, 01 May 2012 - 10:46 PM.

I may be wrong about this but there is a class for the unlimited 2 stroke........the Monster Energy Cup.  The possibility of a million dollar payday wasn't enough to coax a single 500 smoker to take the line.  I'm not here to bash the 2 stroke as I just love the sweet noises & smell they produce but I've got to think that if it was a superior machine then somebody would have stepped up to the line for a shot at the million bucks.

xr_bill, on 02 May 2012 - 06:52 AM, said:

DIng Ding Ding, winner winner chicken dinner.   http://www.motorcycl...ter-energy-cup/
Why is that?

Edited by longtimelurker, 02 May 2012 - 06:56 AM.