Looks good for the future, especially the 390. I think most will forget the slant engine if they can put their egos aside. Like Husaberg found, just too many needless negatives in the real world.
2013-Enduro360
Started by
YHGEORGE
, Apr 20 2012 10:12 AM
14 replies to this topic
Posted 20 April 2012 - 08:28 PM
Wait, this link would help
http://www.enduro360...what-is-coming/.
Edited by KMK, 20 April 2012 - 08:31 PM.
Posted 21 April 2012 - 08:16 AM
Thanks KMK, I made the dumb assumption that everyone knew about Enduro360. Sorry.
Posted 25 April 2012 - 07:13 PM
YHGEORGE, on 20 April 2012 - 10:12 AM, said:
Looks good for the future, especially the 390. I think most will forget the slant engine if they can put their egos aside. Like Husaberg found, just too many needless negatives in the real world.
Posted 25 April 2012 - 07:48 PM
husky34, on 25 April 2012 - 07:13 PM, said:
I will leave my judgment of this supposedly "new" Berg until the release and tests. But tell me, how is this "good for the future" and how was this what "Husaberg found"? Sounds a whole lot like a KTM corporate decision came down from Austria, not Berg. At first glance (ego set adide), I see all kinds of negatives with this and not one positive.
Kinda how I feel on this as well.
Posted 26 April 2012 - 07:03 AM
Quote
But tell me, how is this "good for the future" and how was this what "Husaberg found"? Sounds a whole lot like a KTM corporate decision came down from Austria, not Berg. At first glance (ego set adide), I see all kinds of negatives with this and not one positive.
I've sat in on business buy outs in the past, and here's what I think about the direction that Husaberg is taking.
Initially, KTM is given the rights to buy HUsaberg, but the condition is that for an
agreeable time frame, Husaberg has some, maybe all of the decisions with its operations and product design.
THis is a win-win in the early stages for both parties because KTM doesn't want nor even has the expertise
to handle day to day operations of Husaberg. Additionally, this promise to stay out of Husaberg operations also helps to retain employees with very specialized skills that can't be replaced or lost to a competitor.
Existing HUsaberg CEO & Exec managers are given golden handcuff
options (bonus money) to keep them on the payroll to continue daily operations. During that time, however,
restructuring occurs - QUIETLY - where KTM will transplant its Exec Managers to slowly become prepared to take over operations once the time presciption expires.
This is typically a 3 yr transition, some fewer, some later...but almost always this is how a merged company gets its second breath of life. Here's the truth...rarely does this transition go down w/out any turmoil.
Turmoil is part of the restructuring because cultures of different companies clash. And in the end, it's the parent company which holds the purse strings that ultimately assimilates the other company into its culture and product cycle. Note, however, that it's not even uncommon to buy a competing brand, and then slowly dissolve it altogether. We see this all the time. Take the banking industry. Even more recent, Continental Airlines is no longer existing, with all of its products (planes) renamed after it's new owner, United Airlines. They both provide the same product, but merged, they're larger than before and can reach a larger pool of customers. I see KTM & Husaberg slowly approaching this scenario. It's bad, and it's good.
Posted 26 April 2012 - 03:29 PM
jeddclampette, on 26 April 2012 - 07:03 AM, said:
I've sat in on business buy outs in the past, and here's what I think about the direction that Husaberg is taking.
Initially, KTM is given the rights to buy HUsaberg, but the condition is that for an
agreeable time frame, Husaberg has some, maybe all of the decisions with its operations and product design.
THis is a win-win in the early stages for both parties because KTM doesn't want nor even has the expertise
to handle day to day operations of Husaberg. Additionally, this promise to stay out of Husaberg operations also helps to retain employees with very specialized skills that can't be replaced or lost to a competitor.
Existing HUsaberg CEO & Exec managers are given golden handcuff
options (bonus money) to keep them on the payroll to continue daily operations. During that time, however,
restructuring occurs - QUIETLY - where KTM will transplant its Exec Managers to slowly become prepared to take over operations once the time presciption expires.
This is typically a 3 yr transition, some fewer, some later...but almost always this is how a merged company gets its second breath of life. Here's the truth...rarely does this transition go down w/out any turmoil.
Turmoil is part of the restructuring because cultures of different companies clash. And in the end, it's the parent company which holds the purse strings that ultimately assimilates the other company into its culture and product cycle. Note, however, that it's not even uncommon to buy a competing brand, and then slowly dissolve it altogether. We see this all the time. Take the banking industry. Even more recent, Continental Airlines is no longer existing, with all of its products (planes) renamed after it's new owner, United Airlines. They both provide the same product, but merged, they're larger than before and can reach a larger pool of customers. I see KTM & Husaberg slowly approaching this scenario. It's bad, and it's good.
Initially, KTM is given the rights to buy HUsaberg, but the condition is that for an
agreeable time frame, Husaberg has some, maybe all of the decisions with its operations and product design.
THis is a win-win in the early stages for both parties because KTM doesn't want nor even has the expertise
to handle day to day operations of Husaberg. Additionally, this promise to stay out of Husaberg operations also helps to retain employees with very specialized skills that can't be replaced or lost to a competitor.
Existing HUsaberg CEO & Exec managers are given golden handcuff
options (bonus money) to keep them on the payroll to continue daily operations. During that time, however,
restructuring occurs - QUIETLY - where KTM will transplant its Exec Managers to slowly become prepared to take over operations once the time presciption expires.
This is typically a 3 yr transition, some fewer, some later...but almost always this is how a merged company gets its second breath of life. Here's the truth...rarely does this transition go down w/out any turmoil.
Turmoil is part of the restructuring because cultures of different companies clash. And in the end, it's the parent company which holds the purse strings that ultimately assimilates the other company into its culture and product cycle. Note, however, that it's not even uncommon to buy a competing brand, and then slowly dissolve it altogether. We see this all the time. Take the banking industry. Even more recent, Continental Airlines is no longer existing, with all of its products (planes) renamed after it's new owner, United Airlines. They both provide the same product, but merged, they're larger than before and can reach a larger pool of customers. I see KTM & Husaberg slowly approaching this scenario. It's bad, and it's good.
Posted 04 May 2012 - 07:33 PM
jeddclampette, on 26 April 2012 - 07:03 AM, said:
I've sat in on business buy outs in the past, and here's what I think about the direction that Husaberg is taking.
Initially, KTM is given the rights to buy HUsaberg, but the condition is that for an
agreeable time frame, Husaberg has some, maybe all of the decisions with its operations and product design.
THis is a win-win in the early stages for both parties because KTM doesn't want nor even has the expertise
to handle day to day operations of Husaberg. Additionally, this promise to stay out of Husaberg operations also helps to retain employees with very specialized skills that can't be replaced or lost to a competitor.
Existing HUsaberg CEO & Exec managers are given golden handcuff
options (bonus money) to keep them on the payroll to continue daily operations. During that time, however,
restructuring occurs - QUIETLY - where KTM will transplant its Exec Managers to slowly become prepared to take over operations once the time presciption expires.
This is typically a 3 yr transition, some fewer, some later...but almost always this is how a merged company gets its second breath of life. Here's the truth...rarely does this transition go down w/out any turmoil.
Turmoil is part of the restructuring because cultures of different companies clash. And in the end, it's the parent company which holds the purse strings that ultimately assimilates the other company into its culture and product cycle. Note, however, that it's not even uncommon to buy a competing brand, and then slowly dissolve it altogether. We see this all the time. Take the banking industry. Even more recent, Continental Airlines is no longer existing, with all of its products (planes) renamed after it's new owner, United Airlines. They both provide the same product, but merged, they're larger than before and can reach a larger pool of customers. I see KTM & Husaberg slowly approaching this scenario. It's bad, and it's good.
Initially, KTM is given the rights to buy HUsaberg, but the condition is that for an
agreeable time frame, Husaberg has some, maybe all of the decisions with its operations and product design.
THis is a win-win in the early stages for both parties because KTM doesn't want nor even has the expertise
to handle day to day operations of Husaberg. Additionally, this promise to stay out of Husaberg operations also helps to retain employees with very specialized skills that can't be replaced or lost to a competitor.
Existing HUsaberg CEO & Exec managers are given golden handcuff
options (bonus money) to keep them on the payroll to continue daily operations. During that time, however,
restructuring occurs - QUIETLY - where KTM will transplant its Exec Managers to slowly become prepared to take over operations once the time presciption expires.
This is typically a 3 yr transition, some fewer, some later...but almost always this is how a merged company gets its second breath of life. Here's the truth...rarely does this transition go down w/out any turmoil.
Turmoil is part of the restructuring because cultures of different companies clash. And in the end, it's the parent company which holds the purse strings that ultimately assimilates the other company into its culture and product cycle. Note, however, that it's not even uncommon to buy a competing brand, and then slowly dissolve it altogether. We see this all the time. Take the banking industry. Even more recent, Continental Airlines is no longer existing, with all of its products (planes) renamed after it's new owner, United Airlines. They both provide the same product, but merged, they're larger than before and can reach a larger pool of customers. I see KTM & Husaberg slowly approaching this scenario. It's bad, and it's good.
KTM was bought out by BJAJ an Indian conglomerate with a branch in the Netherlands. Production is moving to India and that's more likely why the bergs aren't going to be the premium line and get any updates. I fear that this buy out will lead to BJAJ control and the entire KTM product line quality will suffer and will go the way of the "One Bike For The Masses" Japanese route and the specialty bikes will go away. Whomever has the 70 dergee bikes better hang on to them as they will be worth some money. Oh Well, it was nice while it lasted!
There is more info in the KTM 2 stroke forum. Check out this link http://www.zigwheels...percent/12333/1
Edited by vidarapido, 04 May 2012 - 07:35 PM.
Posted 14 May 2012 - 09:02 AM
vidarapido, on 04 May 2012 - 07:33 PM, said:
KTM was bought out by BJAJ an Indian conglomerate with a branch in the Netherlands. Production is moving to India and that's more likely why the bergs aren't going to be the premium line and get any updates. I fear that this buy out will lead to BJAJ control and the entire KTM product line quality will suffer and will go the way of the "One Bike For The Masses" Japanese route and the specialty bikes will go away. Whomever has the 70 dergee bikes better hang on to them as they will be worth some money. Oh Well, it was nice while it lasted!
There is more info in the KTM 2 stroke forum. Check out this link http://www.zigwheels...percent/12333/1
There is more info in the KTM 2 stroke forum. Check out this link http://www.zigwheels...percent/12333/1
current Husaberg engine has nothing to do with Bajaj. It does however, open the door to KTM to sell up to 200,000 motorcycles in India
and gave them a huge influx of cash. By the way, this is old news.
Posted 14 May 2012 - 09:52 AM
1. 47% of the share does not mean KTMs and Bergs will be manufactured in India. It's just buisness and now KTM has even more $$$ to go toward R&D.
2. Still not sure why the 70 degree motor is going away and KTM wants to use their own in the Berg. They state "it's a better motor and design", yet Pierre Alexandre Renet is leading the points in the GP series of the Enduro2 class on his FE450 and Mathias Bellino is leading the points chase in the GP series Enduro Junior class on his Berg 4T. Both with the 70 degree motors.
Not saying what so ever that the KTM and it's motor is not as good, I am sure it is but "choice" is better. If I wanted a cookie cut bike, i would buy another Jap model.
Other than stealing the Berg's motto of "Ready to Race", KTM has done a lot of positives for the Husaberg lineup. My verdict is still out on this whole deal. But hey....In the end, I have my 70 degree motor!
2. Still not sure why the 70 degree motor is going away and KTM wants to use their own in the Berg. They state "it's a better motor and design", yet Pierre Alexandre Renet is leading the points in the GP series of the Enduro2 class on his FE450 and Mathias Bellino is leading the points chase in the GP series Enduro Junior class on his Berg 4T. Both with the 70 degree motors.
Not saying what so ever that the KTM and it's motor is not as good, I am sure it is but "choice" is better. If I wanted a cookie cut bike, i would buy another Jap model.
Other than stealing the Berg's motto of "Ready to Race", KTM has done a lot of positives for the Husaberg lineup. My verdict is still out on this whole deal. But hey....In the end, I have my 70 degree motor!
Posted 14 May 2012 - 10:22 AM
Barshoe, on 14 May 2012 - 09:02 AM, said:
KTM was not bought out by Bajaj. Bajaj invested in 47 % of KTMs stock. Production is not moving to India. Discontinuing the
current Husaberg engine has nothing to do with Bajaj. It does however, open the door to KTM to sell up to 200,000 motorcycles in India
and gave them a huge influx of cash.
current Husaberg engine has nothing to do with Bajaj. It does however, open the door to KTM to sell up to 200,000 motorcycles in India
and gave them a huge influx of cash.
Considering that the average wage in Inda is $1000 USD / YR for blue collar, $5000 for white collar, and $10-$15k USD for professionals w/ masters & PhD.... I don't know who exactly the 200,000 customers will be that can afford to buy KTM motorcycles in India...
Edited by minibikedad, 14 May 2012 - 10:32 AM.
Posted 14 May 2012 - 11:12 AM
Barshoe, on 14 May 2012 - 09:02 AM, said:
KTM was not bought out by Bajaj. Bajaj invested in 47 % of KTMs stock. Production is not moving to India. Discontinuing the
current Husaberg engine has nothing to do with Bajaj. It does however, open the door to KTM to sell up to 200,000 motorcycles in India
and gave them a huge influx of cash. By the way, this is old news.
current Husaberg engine has nothing to do with Bajaj. It does however, open the door to KTM to sell up to 200,000 motorcycles in India
and gave them a huge influx of cash. By the way, this is old news.
Again, all it would take is one of the other remaining stock holders to side with BJAJ and they automatically have control. Or if either one can be leveraged by a market down turn, BJAJ could buy up the debt and gain control anyway. Production is moving to India. Selling 200,00 units in a market that is already poluted and diluted is a huge stretch of the imagination. Again, BJAJ isn't going to come out and say that there are going to be great changes as that would adversely affect stock value. Of course they're going to say it's about raising capitol and of course mentioned the disclosure agreement. Companies don't make these kinds of moves unless control is their ultimate goal and again, they have to protect their investment. It was posted on April 12, 2012. If nothing changes, great. We'll see.....
Posted 17 May 2012 - 09:10 AM
Wow, Husaberg going from a premier brand to a bargain brand. Interesting.
Quote
When the new 2009 models came out, KTM was looking to position Husaberg as premium brand, with extra gadgets to make it the luxury KTM. Now it looks like they may be headed the opposite direction, to position the Bergs as a value/ price point brand.
Edited by randysoo, 17 May 2012 - 09:12 AM.
Posted 18 May 2012 - 08:23 AM
randysoo, on 17 May 2012 - 09:10 AM, said:
Wow, Husaberg going from a premier brand to a bargain brand. Interesting.
The Berg (as is today) is kicking a$$ in the European off road racing series. Why mess with it!?
Edited by husky34, 18 May 2012 - 08:25 AM.
Posted 24 May 2012 - 01:34 PM
Quote
Considering that the average wage in Inda is $1000 USD / YR for blue collar, $5000 for white collar, and $10-$15k USD for professionals w/ masters & PhD.... I don't know who exactly the 200,000 customers will be that can afford to buy KTM motorcycles in India...
They're selling the hell out of the Duke 250 over there.
