My first question is what cleaner would be best suited for cleaning out inside the head?  I washed my bike, but while tearing everything down there was still some dirt in unexpected places that fell down into the head.  Not sure if I should blast it out with brake cleaner, carb cleaner, or electrical contact cleaner.  Also, is it cool to wash the cylinder in soap and water, then put it in the oven at about 300 to evaporate the water quickly?  I am sure I will have more questions, luckily I gave myself two weeks to complete this project.  I have to order some new shims for the intake valves, two were at .10 and the other one was at .009.  Not bad, but dont want to let it go and start to damage the valve seats.

Soap and water is fine to clean the cylinder. I am not sure about the oven drying, as I used a blower with 140 mph winds. It was dry in about twenty seconds and used only 1/20th or less of the electricity needed versus heating an oven up.

I just cleaned the head up with gas and compressed air since I was replacing the valve stem seals anyway. I'm not sure what cleaners are safe with the head; but gas hasn't seemed to hurt or discolor it in any way.

Brake Clean is fine. I use electrical contact cleaner too. After you wash the cylinder just blow it out with compressed air and then clean it with contact cleaner or brake cleaner. You are replacing the timing chain as well I hope? Good luck and ask anything you need there are lots of peeps on here with good knowledge of these bikes.

Yep, I purchased a new timing chain as well.  The OEM chain is only $20, so no point in skiping that.  Im so glad I gave myself plenty of time to get this all done, so far its not that much worse than doing a two stroke top end.  I will probably be back on with a few more questions later, but so far everything is going good.

What do you guys think about honing the cylinder?  Some people say its pointless and others say to definately to it.  Alot of people use a scotch brite pad, but I have also heard that a scotch brite pad doesnt really do anything to cut the glaze, it just makes the person feel better that they didnt do nothing.

I decided to try the scotch brite pad first, to see how that would work.  Sprayed some PB Blaster penetrating lube in the cylinder, and took the scotch brite pad to it.  After 5-10 minutes, I could see the cross hatching perfectly.  It easy took the glaze off the cylinder.  Very impressed, didnt expect it to work that well.

you can buy a hone at advance for like 10$..way faster than using scotch brite, and people who say its pointless are idiots IMO. when you "brake" in your motor, you essensionally "set" the rings. which is kinda hard to set rings if you have a glassy cylinder... its only nessisary for the rings to properly set. damn, lots of big woords in this post misspelled!

The piston oil ring has to be the most retarded design ever.  This thing is beyond finicky.  Every time after finnally getting the peices to sit in the piston groove correctly, I try to slide it into the cylinder it catches and pulls it out of wack again.  I hate this thing with a passion.  I am walking away from it for now cause if I dont its going through the wall.  Maybe I will need to buy a piston ring compressor, I have never needed one before but those were two strokes.  This is so frusterating.

mjbd, on 21 April 2012 - 01:56 PM, said:

Is the piston attached to the crank yet, or are you trying to put it in the barrel while the piston is off the crank rod? Believe it or not, there is enough clearance to attach the piston after it is already in the barrel (just enough). Some find it easier if they don't have a ring compressor to put the piston in the barrel before attaching the assembly to the crank. It allows you to see ring binding problems easier and stop before folding the oil ring and wiper over too far and damaging them. If your piston is attached to the crank and you remove the cir-clips to try the alternate method, be advised that you should replace the cir-clips with new ones even though they haven't been run in. They are one of those type of cir-clips that you compress once and once only to insert in the cir-clip cavity.

My friend kept missing putting the cir-clip in the slot too many times and he compressed the clip once too many and he had a cir-clip failure. Just giving a heads up on that one. Many will dispute how you place the open ends of the cir-clips that hold the piston pin in place (6 o'clock position or 12 o'clock position - but if you look carefully in the manual, there is no doubt how the engineers want you to place those cir-clips (open end facing down/6 o'clock position) that are going to be flying up and down at 10 grand + revolutions per minute.

Edited by nokickstandsallowed, 21 April 2012 - 03:38 PM.

I bought a ring compressor and it was enough to help me install the piston in the cylinder.  I did a search and apparently the Wiseco oil ring tend to be more finicky than OEM.  Now to get the head prepped and ready and get the new timing chain installed.  Yesterday was such a drain on me, I felt so defeated with something that seemed so simple.  That darn oil ring is really tempremental prior to being installed.  I still think a manufacture should be able to come up with a one peice design.  Oh well, its done now and ready to move on.

mjbd, on 22 April 2012 - 05:28 AM, said:

This is another reason why I stick with eom pistons on a stock bore cylinder.

What do you guys use to lube the cam bolts and head bolts?  The manual says to use molybdenum disulfide oil on the cam bolts and molybdenum disulfide grease on the head bolts.  The remaning lube on the head bolts looks like never seize, but not sure if thats it for sure.  Whats the verdict?

It depends how long it's going to be before I plan on starting it. If I plan on starting the bike after rebuilding it I use motor oil to lube it. If its going to be a little while I use 90w. If its going to be a long time then that's when you look into assembly lube that is safe for clutches. The biggest reason for sticky assembly lube is to make sure it is lubed on start up but if you're going to start it after rebuild then oil is sufficient. If its going to sit on a shelf for a period of time then ass. lube.

mjbd, on 23 April 2012 - 03:23 PM, said:

You dont need to use the exact stuff the book says. Make sure you clean the threads on the bolts and the holes they are going into. Then just dip the bolt threads in the oil you are going to run in the bike. All you are doing is lubricating the threads so that when you torque the bolts down you get an accurate torque on them. Its really that simple.

Ok, but the head bolts do say to use grease and not oil, should I use regular grease or never seize?

mjbd, on 24 April 2012 - 04:15 AM, said:

Wait, your head bolts are speaking? I wish all my parts said something, so I wouldn't have to read the damn manual.
Relax, I'm J/K - I know what you meant

The reason the manual suggest a grease lubricant, is because oil on the threads will drip down into the hole cavities of each bolt hole and eventually on a fourth or fifth rebuild (if using oil each rebuild) of the top end, you will experience oil wedge lock (if you don't flush the oil out) and it will fool your torque wrench into believing it has acquired the appropriate torque value because it cannot compress the oil down in the holes past the threads fast enough to compensate for what would be assumed to be the correct torque on the first tightening sequence.

The bolts, as you are probably aware, need tightened in a sequential staging pattern until the proper torque is achieved on each bolt. If you forgo doing sequential tightening, you will warp or damage your head and or cylinder in the process. With excess oil down in those holes, reaching an accurate sequential tightening pattern torque becomes difficult or incorrectly achieved if oil wedge lock occurs.

Charlie755 is pointing out a very important step, if you use oil instead of grease; and that is to thoroughly flush the deep well bolt holes out (because they are sealed on the bottom) and make sure the threads are clean on both the bolts and holes. This step should have been done long before putting the cylinder and head on, because it is easier to see how much is down in those holes; but, not impossible to still clean them out if any oil or grime is down in them.

I used Lucas ® grease myself for the application. The green or red flavors work just fine, even though I have used oil (the type I run in the motor) to lubricate them on the first two top end rebuilds I did before letting someone else try there hand at fixing my bike. But that is another story documented in a rebuild thread I shared last year on TT.

As far as your never seize question, I have no advice, as I have never used the stuff in a head bolt application on these bikes.

Edited by nokickstandsallowed, 24 April 2012 - 04:30 PM.

Awesome, I never thought about oil filing the hole and messing with the torque value but thats a very good point.  Good advice guys, thanks for all the help.  I am sure I will be back again later.  I am doing very little each night when I have time.  Hopefully I can devote some hours on saturday to finishing this project up and firing the old girl up.

mjbd, on 24 April 2012 - 04:43 PM, said:

Your Welcome, fellow Buckeye rider.
I miss the Heart of it All
I miss riding in the slag dumps and quarries. Now that I have a 250F, there are a few hills that use to beat the snot out of my less powerful bikes that I want to go back up their <<<oops, I meant there - and give a try now that I have a capable machine that can climb the longer hills. The hills were so long, that my smaller bikes just didn't have a wide enough ratio in the gearing to keep climbing them, and they would bog down half way up the suckers.

Edited by nokickstandsallowed, 24 April 2012 - 05:09 PM.

nokickstandsallowed, on 24 April 2012 - 04:03 PM, said:

Excellent post man. I have been building MX bikes for a long time and sometimes forget to include why certain things are done and you covered it perfectly! I try not to assume that people know everything but I also try not to look like I am talking down to someone either by over explaining things. Ha ha my little struggle I guess.

Edited by Charlie755, 25 April 2012 - 06:41 PM.

Charlie755, on 25 April 2012 - 06:40 PM, said:

Thank You.

I think the reason I go into such detail, is not to over explain something (even though I do ); but rather to make sure someone doesn't have to go through what I did too often.
I'm glad you realize that I wasn't talking down to him, and I even got lucky by pointing out something just because of your post, and I think mjbd understood I was just going into depth so that I could share mistakes I came across, so that hopefully he can avoid similiar ones.
Two eyes, two ears, and one mouth - but I have eight fingers and two thumbs that won't shut up

Thanks again!