Has anyone here converted an S model to an SM? I'm wanting to know what the major differences between the two models are....besides the obvious inverted forks and larger diameter front disc brake. I tried to find these answers searching online but I couldn't find detailed specs on the discontinued SM...just basic spec. info. I'm considering a low mileage 2006 S model to convert. Anything to look for in particular on a 2006?

1.) I'm looking for things like rake angle. I assume the two frames are identical so if there is a difference in rake it's in the triple trees?

2.) Is there any rear disc brake difference, disc size, master cylinder piston size?

3.) I know the swingarm is different but is the wheelbase any different?

4.) It might be my imagination but IIRC the SM seemed to have a slightly wider seat than the S...is it?

5.) Both models have a cushion hub drive system...right?

Thanks for any input

Tech25

1.) I'm looking for things like rake angle. I assume the two frames are identical so if there is a difference in rake it's in the triple trees?
Rake angle is different, same frames, triple clamps are different (rake) and SM forks are USD and have less travel.

2.) Is there any rear disc brake difference, disc size, master cylinder piston size?
SM is 240mm, S 220mm, same MC.  I don't see much difference for the street, track maybe.

3.) I know the swingarm is different but is the wheelbase any different?
Basically, no

4.) It might be my imagination but IIRC the SM seemed to have a slightly wider seat than the S...is it?
    DRZ seats are marginal, and that's being kind.

5.) Both models have a cushion hub drive system...right?
No

Unless you decide to go full bore track SM (wrong bike), a converted S will do fairly well for street, canyons, general hooliganism and track days.  Just remember a dual sport is a jack of all trades, don't expect a silk purse.

What to look for is a tough ??  Depends on the previous owner, mileage, condition and how well you can spot a problem.  I've seen DRZs that have never tasted dirt, and others that are trail flogged every weekend.

Thanks to PlaneDr's help, I've gone to the darkside using SV650 rims shod with Avon Storms (they're so so).  I ride with FZRs, Triumph Triples, Ninjas, Dukes, and MVs, I own'em all to 75mph then I get smoked.  Late braking is fun too.

Edited by 38super, 14 April 2012 - 05:28 AM.

38super, on 14 April 2012 - 05:26 AM, said:

Thanks for the info.

Although it would be nice...I don't need a Husaberg, Husky or a KTM to have fun out here. The rides I take would likely make riding something like that much less enjoyable for extended periods...at my age anyway. I won't be using it for track days, just want a more street biased/focused dual sport (play supermoto) for the local twisties. I've already converted a DR 650 and I'm quite happy with the way it turned out. I'm looking for another project, recently I've spotted a few clean low mileage DRZ 400S models which are more readily available used than the DRZ 400SM's which all seem to be flogged. I'm pretty good at picking a good bike from many "mint" bikes out there...LOL. My favorite set of twisties keeps the sport bike riders frustrated, the tight turns don't have enough straight away between them.

Do you know the specific rake specs for the SM and S model? Which one of the two has the cush hub?

Did the SV wheels take much machining? I'm thinking about lacing my own wheels to the stock hubs

Tech25

Edited by Tech25, 14 April 2012 - 01:45 PM.

SM has less rake but don't know the numbers, E Marquez and some of the Sumo guys will know.  The SV rims take some medium serious machining.  Not bad if you have the skills and machinery.  My first hooligan mod was done on a 3 in 1 shoptask.  The challenge is comparative measurements and holding fixtures.  PlaneDr and SMJ.com are good sources of hooligan mod info.

i did an entire post in the drz forum with rake and trail numbers.

My S converted has 25degree rake and 2.8" trail.  The SM has 26 degrees and 3.8" trail i think(from memory).  There are some other differences as well.  The shock body on the SM is different and gives the bike a different attitude.  The offset is a little different on the SM triple clamps and the front axle is .25"(again from memory) farther forward in relation to the fork.  The front end is also lower.  I had my S and a stock SM next to each other doing the measurements and comparissons.


The Seat and rest of the body was the same on both bikes.  It might be a difference between years rather than models.  There were small changes over the years.

Swingarms are different but their lengths are the same.  I have an SM upper chain guard which needed a little modding to work on the S arm because of some weld differences.  The SM runs a 4.5" wide rear rim while most conversions will sells you a 4.25" wide rim(thats what i have).

Master cylinders and calipers are the same.  The front brake is mounted different because of the fork leg.  SM has a 310 front.  Rear is a 20mm difference as mentioned above.  The SM has a different caliper bracket and i think caliper.  Its easier to just put a 220mm rotor on the rear.  I think the SM has too much rear brake.

No cush drive on either bikes.

I did about 1000 road miles on my drz and 4 track days before i bought a 450mx bike to SM on the track.  The drz is fun as a street bike but i just needed more for the track.  I quickly needed more tire than the 150 could provide.  The 320 on the front is good but i just didnt have enough brake, not enough power etc etc.  My bike has E base gasket, E cams, Fcr, mrd/ssw and some small tweaks.  Here is a video from the track on the drz.



One thing that was a must is a new top triple clamp to move the bars forward!  It would be nice to have a 12mm or 14mm offset triple clamp set.  I think stock is 22mm or something like that.  Less offset would help add some trail back.  You could also swap over an RM or a drz sm front end.

shift1313, on 18 April 2012 - 04:26 AM, said:

Thanks for all that info, much appreciated. Like I said no track days for me just riding the local twisties out here. Keeping in mind I already have a DR 650 SM conversion...in your opinion would a converted DR Z400S model be a good bike for my intended use? Finding a clean well cared for DR Z400SM is getting kinda hard to do. Plenty of clean low mileage S models though. I also have a 4.25" rim and a 150 series tire on the 650 which works fine for me on the street. Not looking to spend a boat load of cash on a second bike. The 400S has twin clicker cartridge style forks and I believe a twin clicker rear shock so the 400's stock suspension is better than the 650 I have now. I thought about converting a WR 450 but I'm pretty sure I can convert a 400S for less money and less red tape too.

Tech25

Edited by Tech25, 18 April 2012 - 10:42 PM.

Tech, if your goal is a street only bike i would probably make the suspension and engine on the 650 your project.  On top of my Drzs i have about $3500 worth of mods to it.  It was a good bike before but it wouldnt rev out and just felt like it was choked down.  I have seen S models go for pretty cheap with a blown motor.  You could always dump something else in the frame too.

I will say my bike is not comfortable for long rides.  after about 30-45 mins i start standing up to relieve the monkey butt.  I have an aftermarket tall seat that i thought would help but it really didnt.  If you do get a drz i would go for a wide gel seat.

The stock suspension is okay but unless you are about 160lbs you will want to respring and revalve them for your intended duty.  in my videos i am on bone stock suspension with thicker oil in the forks.

To me it sounds like some motor mods and suspension work on your 650 would do the trick.  Or pick up an xr650R.  good power and with a little uncorking you will have tons on tap.  Suspension is good stock.  Also if you really want to find a worn out SM you can get a deal and then mod the engine with a big bore kit!

shift1313, on 19 April 2012 - 07:45 AM, said:

That's what I suspected about the same in mods as a good used bike would cost...which is not uncommon. I have as much into the DR as the bike cost me used. I have thought about and XR-R and an XR-L. Gotta have electric start because of back problems so that eliminates the XR-R. Had an 83 XL 600R first year it was out...was younger and could kick a big bore single all day...not anymore.

On the 650 I've got .47kg straight rate front springs and Ricor intiminators with 5W oil as recommended by Ricor. The rear has a 7.5 rear spring. A TM40 pumper carb/open air box and a GSXR 1000 muffler. Galfer SS brakes hoses front and rear. I had the same problem with my stock seat so I had Fisher modify the seat so I can do long rides in comfort. The bike handles pretty well for a "supermoto style bike". Never rode a SM race bike so I don't know what I'm missing, I know the more track oriented the bike the more uncomfortable it will be on the highway and for extended periods of high speed riding....vibration, narrow hard seat ect. With the 16/43 gearing the DR will do 70/80 MPH comfortably...90-95 for short spurts. The bike is pretty much where I wanted it. Being a mechanic I suppose I'm just a little too anxious to get into another project, maybe as we get into the summer here some deals will surface as it becomes too hot to ride. With the take offs from my DR the inexpensive way to go would be to get another and lace my own wheels...maybe I should do that instead and do different suspension mods and buy up take off mods from the internet.

Tech25

Tech25, on 19 April 2012 - 02:23 PM, said:

So what does the dr650 not do that you want?  That might help narrow in which bike to get.  I have an rmz450 for the track.  It might be fun on the street for short periods of time but i couldnt imagine just cruising around on it.  The drz i can cruise around on it but now that it is making decent power its not nearly as nice to just put around.  We all have to make compromises I guess.  After doing just one track day on my drz i don't enjoy the street nearly as much as I used to.  Being able to push your bike as hard as you want/can is just different.  Even if you just want to putt around on the track.

For the street it sounds like maybe a 250 would be a nice bike for you to get into.  Something a little lighter.  The drz is heavy.  only about 40lbs lighter than your 650.  stock i think the drz was 34hp where the 650 was 43hp.  About 2k worth of mods got me to that point.  Much easier to drop weight off the 650:)  What about some cams, head work and bumping the compression on that 650?  Im sure 55hp isnt that far off:)

shift1313, on 19 April 2012 - 03:06 PM, said:

The DR suits my needs just fine...just going thru wrenching withdrawl since I finished it...LOL. Maybe I should hold out for an already Tarded DR 650 that's blown up and modify that one in my own time to keep myself busy. It seems most DR's when they meet their end it's either a catastrophic (expensive) failure or a broken frame.

Tech25

New toyitis is a tough itch to scratch, if budget and room are not a issue then dive in.

A project just for projects sake i would go for something a little more vintage personally.  Some old thumper:)  I always wanted to take my old ke125 and tard it out with a kx500 motor:)

38super, on 20 April 2012 - 07:20 AM, said:

You got that right. Both budget and room are a concern. If I could find a buyer for my CRF 150/230 conversion I could eliminate two concerns at the same time. Still patiently waiting for that deal I can't refuse to come along.

Tech25

I had a DRZ400S last year.  I realized that for about the same money you can get a Yamaha WR450, which is a lot more bike for the money.  It can easily be made street legal in many states.  If you live in a state that is possible to plate dirt bikes I'd recommend the WR for your motard project, because the outcome will be much more rewarding for the same costs & effort.

If you don't care to keep a set of dirt wheels,  I would think relacing Sumo rims onto your stock hubs would be the cheapest & simplest way to go.  I'm converting a set of SV650 mag wheels for my WR450 since I want dirt wheels too, and also because I want the cush drive on the street.

GlennR, on 02 May 2012 - 04:28 AM, said:

I have considered a WR. I've been looking for quite of few different bikes for the conversion, and the WR is one of the candidates. I have been thinking the old style steel frames fuel tank may have more capacity for street use. I'm not sure how much fuel those aluminum perimeter style frame fuel tanks hold doesn't look like much. AZ should be a piece of cake getting tagged/registered.

Tech25

RMZ hubs are the same as DRZ except for speedo drive.  Check out Seat Concepts for new foam and cover, much better than stock.

38super, on 03 May 2012 - 02:09 PM, said:

Good to know, are you saying RMZ  (inverted fork setup) hubs will fit a DRZ "S" model with conventional forks? If so, I assume the axle diameter is the same? How about the wheel spacers from the RMZ...will they center the RMZ hub in the DRZ "S" model forks, or do you use the DRZ spacers?

This time around to save money I'll likely order a wheel/spoke set and lace my own wheels to the stock hubs to what ever I decide on...or comes my way with a price I can't refuse.

Fisher will have me back as a repeat customer to take care of the seat discomfort for road use issues.

Tech25

Edited by Tech25, 04 May 2012 - 01:33 PM.

You'll have to measure, I don't have an RMZ to compare.  Some folks have used water pipe, I use 1.25" dia aluminum round stock.

rmz and drz hubs are not the same.  i have both trust me.  the axle sizes are different.  the rotor is a 4 bolt on the rmz and 6 on the drz i believe.  trust me it would be sweet if my warp 9 wheels for my drz were backups for my rmz.  they arent.  You could make the back wheel work between the two but not the front.  I think the drz has 22mm axles front and rear.  the rmz has a 20.  or something like that.  I dont remember off hand.

DRZ axle is 20mm