Hy,

I've been wondering how I can go into corners smoothly every time. Sometimes, I shift down before I start braking, but that takes away time that I could have used on the brakes to get in and out of the corner faster. Other times, I shift down after I finish braking, which means I have my leg in to shift, while it should be out to keep me balanced.

So my question here is, should I shift down before, or after braking? (I ride a kx 125 if that helps)

And my other question is about brake-tapping. Should I always hold the clutch all the way in whenever I brake tap, or can I just tap the brake without my bike stalling? Holding the clutch in seems to take too long, but I also don't want to try it without holding in the clutch, and wind up crashing. Any advise will be greatly appreciated!

kx910, on 12 April 2012 - 03:33 PM, said:

In the Gary Semics videos I have it says that you should shift down before and while braking. Remember that you should be braking until you are halfway through the corner and then transitioning to throttle. Also, make sure that when you are riding that you are either on the brakes or the gas.

Now brake tapping, you need to use the clutch when you are doing this technique. If you do not pull in the clutch you can stall and kill the bike. I don't understand why you say it is taking too long. Most people who ride 125's have one finger on the clutch all the time and if you do not do this it should not be hard to reach out. Anyways, if it is "taking too long" then you shouldn't be brake tapping anyways. Most jumps that you want to use this technique on you would have more than enough time to do so.

If you want more comprehensive information about these techniques just look into riding technique videos. Hope this helped!

Edited by mxkid12, 12 April 2012 - 04:56 PM.

mxkid12, on 12 April 2012 - 04:56 PM, said:

If I only have one finger on the clutch, I'd only be pulling it in to my fingers. What I mean is, if I'm in the air, and right before I hit the ground, I want to tap the brake, It's going to take a little while to move all of my fingers out of the way just to pull the clutch all the way in. Do I need to pull the clutch in all the way, or can I just pull it in half way?

And are you really supposed to be using the rear brake while shifting? Wouldn't you lose control doing that?

I can only assist with the down shifting comment, I donna even get near break-tapping...

Downshifting is something I learned how to do roadracing and that skill translated perfectly into motocross.

As stated above, you never want to waste time. You are either slowing down or speeding up, throttle or gas.

Keith Codes books (twist of the wrist and twist of the wrist part 2) are excellent resources for you to learn the fundamentals of time management whilst riding. They will teach you how to manage your time going into and out of corners. The key is to have all the actions you do, completely automatic. You should come off the track and if I ask you, what gear were you in when you down shifted in that corner, you should say; I downshifted in that corner? Everything you do should be subconscious and thats what Keith's books will teach you.

On the 125, your rear brake balances the machine in a way you may or may not realize. When I approach a corner I need to shift for, lets say rolling up a berm and down again for instance. When I feel it necessary to break (based on skill level) I'll immediately start shifting down based on muscle memory (what my subconscious thinks needs to be the proper gear for exiting the corner) as I'm on the brake. A the same time I'm on the front brake, I'm slowly starting to press the rear brake, this keeps the rear from unloading and gives you control on exit. Then you sit down on the seat, get off the front brake, twist the bike around the corner and yank on the throttle. As you yank, you slowly get off the rear brake because you just used the brake as a clutch.

It looks like this:

http://www.tye1138.c...quickcorner.mov

You will notice in the video, my right foot is not on the brake through the corner. That is because its a right-hander and its tough to be on the rear brake that long when you need that leg for balance, so I use the throttle to twist the bike around and change direction. Because I wasn't on the rear brake, you notice the rear load up and then unload as I get towards the bottom of the berm. That's from lack of traction and you can help get rid of that by modulating the rear brake on exit.

Edited by tye1138, 12 April 2012 - 10:34 PM.

kx910, on 12 April 2012 - 08:01 PM, said:

Why on earth are grabbing the clutch with your whole hand? 1 or 2 fingers MAX should be used on the clutch. You need to still be able to grip and control the bars while reaching for the clutch. I'm not even going into the "I don't have time" because that is just nonsense. As far as braking goes; you should be downshifting while braking. Shifting before braking sounds like a great way to get hurt, or blow a motor. Shifting after braking means are shifting as you are going through the corner. You want to be in the proper gear at all times while in the corner. Always get all shifting done prior to the corner.

tye1138, on 12 April 2012 - 10:31 PM, said:

Oh, I know how to use the rear brake. All I want to know is how I'm supposed to shift down while using the rear brake at the same time. That doesn't make any sense. I need to know if I should down shift before or after I start using the rear brake. I don't think I can do both at the same time.

Tech420, on 13 April 2012 - 05:08 AM, said:

All I want to know is if I should pull the clutch in until it touches my fingers, or if I need to pull the clutch in all the way to the grip. If I pull it in all the way, I'm gonna have to take my other three fingers off.

And about the shifting thing, I just want to know if I'm supposed to be shifting down while using the rear brake. That doesn't seem to make any sense. I want to know if I should shift down before or after I start to use the rear brake. I've just never heard of doing both at the same time.

kx910, on 13 April 2012 - 01:51 PM, said:

Like I said, why one earth are you using your whole hand to pull in the clutch? You should have a feel for where your friction point is. You should have no problem at all using one finger to pull the clutch in past the friction point....which is not all the way at the bar. Yes, you should be shifting while using the brake. What is so hard about doing both at the same time? You operate the clutch and front brake at the same time don't you? Same concept but with your feet. It takes some practice, but just take it slow and it will come.

with break tapping start on a small jump, something small enough that you can lock the rear wheel while in the air and kill the motor and still land and ride it out. Do that a few times then start tapping it softly enough to slow the rear wheel but not stop it, you can get a lot of effect with out ever stopping the rear wheel. After that practice clutch pull and rear wheel lock.

kx910, on 13 April 2012 - 01:47 PM, said:

YES you want to down shift at the same time you are breaking. That's what I meant by: "You are either slowing down or speeding up, throttle or gas." So one would assume you'd put shifting in between the action of slowing down (on the brakes) or speeding up (on the throttle).  But to say you have to shift under brakes is silly because you can downshift at any time you want really. It just depends on the results you are looking for. This is why I mentioned the keith code book and learning about how to do multiple actions at the same time, which my example was using the rear brake and throttle.

Edited by tye1138, 13 April 2012 - 03:05 PM.

kx910, on 13 April 2012 - 01:51 PM, said:

Just pull the clutch in enough to where it works (engages).

Edited by Rich_Bing, 13 April 2012 - 03:17 PM.

Rich_Bing, on 13 April 2012 - 03:17 PM, said:

THANK YOU! that's all I wanted to know. So if I only pull it in to where it engages, the bike won't stall on me in the air?

tye1138, on 13 April 2012 - 03:05 PM, said:

OK, that feels kina wierd to use both at the same time while standing up, but I guess I'll give it a try.

kx910, on 13 April 2012 - 04:36 PM, said:

Thats why you need to read Keith's book! Trust me, its like $30 bux and you can buy it at pretty much any book store, its widely distributed. You will learn SOOOO much and can try what you learn on the motocross track. His book doesn't talk about doing XYZ, his book is about managing your body properly when riding. Stuff that NOBODY talks about in the motocross world sadly.

kx910, on 13 April 2012 - 04:35 PM, said:

Nope!

tye1138, on 13 April 2012 - 05:02 PM, said:

Well I don't have any money, but when I get some, I'll consider getting that book! And thanks for the tips. I tried doing that in my back yard (only big enough to ride in an oval shape) and it's easier than I thought. I guess it's because last time I was at the track was before I learned to hold on with my knees more.

mxkid12, on 13 April 2012 - 08:25 PM, said:

Haha, YES IT WILL!! I think my bike's messed up or something, cuz when I tried pulling it in to the engagement point then pressing the brake (in my garage) the bike turned off. I HAVE to hold it in all the way to prevent it from stalling. But then again, the bike still rolls forward whenever I hold in the clutch. It won't stop going unless I use the brakes. I'm not sayin ur wrong, I'm just sayin that I should have just tried that earlier.

kx910, on 13 April 2012 - 09:25 PM, said:

Then you probably have a worn clutch OR you haven't adjusted your clutch cable properly.

This is why I refuse to ride with cable clutch bikes, they don't auto adjust when the clutch wears. You need to make the adjustment through the cable yourself.

You should be able to grip the bars with your hand, take your index and middle finger, pull the lever in till it touches your other fingers and have the clutch disengaged. So tighten that cable up until you can do that. Its easy to play with in the garage with the bike off, just put it in gear and rock it back and forward until it starts to slowly move when the clutch is pulled in and you should be good to go!

Edited by tye1138, 14 April 2012 - 09:31 AM.

tye1138, on 14 April 2012 - 08:38 AM, said:

I tried doing this, but my clutch lever has to be SUPER tight for it to be disengaged when it touches my fingers. I guess I'm gonna have to get some stronger fingers then!

kx910, on 14 April 2012 - 02:12 PM, said:

Yet another reason why I ride KTM's. LOL

Umm, you might get some luck by installing an aftermarket perch and lever assembly that has a different leverage point on the cable. The stock leverage is pretty poor on the Japanese 125's, they all pretty much use the same perch, its a .5 cent piece and its very poorly designed.