12bruckd, on 20 April 2012 - 02:29 PM, said:

Sorry, I shouldn't have blasted you like that, I see that your 18 ... I should have taken a few moments to educate instead of shouting, my bad.

skisnh, on 20 April 2012 - 02:46 PM, said:

I agree with the statement that they have not really paid the Gov. back the way they should.

skisnh, on 20 April 2012 - 02:50 PM, said:

I didn't take offense to the boy part or anything and you actually taught me that they didn't really pay us back.

DMC707, on 17 April 2012 - 07:54 PM, said:

Toyota is investing heavily into American workers. They are using 80% US content. I think Ford may match that, the rest use 60% and under. Toyota has many plants int he US. They have plants that just make cylinder heads alone. Toyota assembly line workers make $27 per hour.

This thread has gotten way off topic . . .

I am currently suing Ford under the lemon law due to transmission issues with my F-150.  If the tranny worked properly I'd be thrilled with this truck.

I ordered from the factory with the 5.0 V-8 and 3.77 rear end.  While a little soft on low end torque, the engine flies once revved up.  Cruising down the highway at 60mph with no load, no head wind or tail wind and I get 22 mpg.  That is the same I got in my 2006 Frontier.  That is AWESOME mileage from a 5,500 pound truck with a 360 hp/380 ft lb V-8.

But since I am suing Ford I am looking at either a Ram or Tundra.  I like the looks of the GM but the 5.3 is just too underpowered for me.  The 5.0 in my F-150 destroys that engine in hp and torque and with the aforementioned mileage, believe it will beat or at least tie a GM 5.3.  Before ordering my F-150 I drove a Ram and a Tundra.  My only gripe with the Tundra at the time was the lack of a bench seat.  I like a split bench in a full size truck and that killed the Tundra for me.  Also, I think the Tundra is way behind GM, Ford and Ram for interior design layout.  

I suspect my suit will be resolved in the next two weeks and I'll trade my F-150 in.  If Ford gives me a good enough deal I may chance a 2nd F-150.  If I can get one that shifts properly I'll be happy for many years.  OTOH, fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.  So maybe I should get something else.

The Tundra has an awesome drive train but a mediocre interior and questionable fuel economy.  I'd really like to be able to hit 20 mpg cruising empty at 60mph.  On the up side the limited option packages make it easy to get the exact truck I want.  Of course that won't include a bench seat but I can probably get used to that.  The MSRP would be around $37k but Toyota has the lowest incentives right now.

A Ford would sticker about 38k but with $5,500 in incentives, would be much cheaper.  Of course I have already been burned once and an now gun shy.  In addition, I ordered my F-150 XLT to get it exactly the way I want it.  I can't find another truck like it and would likely have to get one with an MSRP of 40k to 41k to get at least the options I want.  That brings it closer to the Toyota price wise.

The new 2013 Ram is less interesting to me than many other buyers.  Given my issues with the Ford 6R80 Transmission, I am not anxious to beta test the new eight speed in the Ram.  Also, first gear in that new eight speed is like 4.5:1.  My F-150 has a first gear at 4.2:1 and that is already useless for me.  The current 5/6 speed 645RFE in the Ram appears to be pretty solid so a good deal on a 2012 Ram is very tempting.  To me it is easily the best looking truck and has an interior on par with Ford and way above the Tundra.  Also, I have heard if you drive the Ram in the same manner as I drive my F-150, you can get 22 mpg in cylinder-deativation mode.  I am NOT buying a truck for mileage but if brand A can get 22 on the highway but brand B (Tundra) can only get 18, that is a pretty big difference.

I have heard the new Silverado will debut late Summer.  I would speculate it will be an all new vehicle with a much improved 5.3 or new engine altogether.  So I won't buy the current generation GM and would rather wait a year or two to get the bugs worked out of the current model.

Finally, most people don't have the issues with the Ford 6 speed like I do and yet I got a bad one.  Given how highly rated Ford is it goes to show you can have issues with any top rated vehicle.  Based on that I no longer worry about consumer reports and other "objective" measurements of predicted reliability.  For as much money as a new truck costs, get the one you want and take care of it.  If you get a good one and take care of it, it should last many years.

NC

Edited by NumberCruncher, 21 April 2012 - 07:14 PM.

sorry you are having probs with your tranny  NumberCruncher, ------  I like Ford too, but i also, am not extremely brand loyal.

  A $5000 price difference buys a lot of gasoline now too --- something to keep in mind with any vehicle if you are pretty much comparing apples to apples   (in my recent quest though, i dont think the difference for me was that much for any of them with equivalent equipment,   but i got a bit incensed with salespeople insisting i have to "come down and look at their loaded bargain! " (somebody showed me a Tundra with vinyl seats ---- not that thats a bad thing, but not what i was looking for -- and usually thats not a "loaded" truck ether)

DMC707, on 21 April 2012 - 03:36 PM, said:

Kinda sucks to by buying right now.

Dealers have all the market forces working for them at the moment.

I just visited my local toyo dealer for wiper inserts for tacoma and camry........and there was not a single tacoma even on the lot.

I think some guy might have made an offer on MY parked Tacoma while i was getting wipers at service counter.

On the other hand dealers have suffered mightily in recent past, and kind of deserve a spell of market sunshine.


BB

12bruckd, on 20 April 2012 - 02:55 PM, said:

Dude,  the drinking age is not 18 in MI you had better put that beer down and walk away!

Come back later when you are 21 and I will buy the first round.

BlackBuzzard, on 21 April 2012 - 03:56 PM, said:

Agreed and that will make buying a new truck a little tougher.  Maybe gas will spike to $5 per gallon in the next month and sales will stall.  Crank up the incentives, I'll get a new truck and then drop gas to $2 per gallon, I mean $3 per gallon, I mean $4 per gallon . . .

NC

DMC707, on 20 April 2012 - 10:29 AM, said:

You may not be aware of this, but many parts of the south have a very low cost of living compared to, say, N OH and SE MI.  Even after all MI has been through, there's still parts of the south that are a hell of a lot cheaper.

Friend of mine just bought a house around Crossville TN for $50k.  Nothing fancy, 3bd, 2ba, 6 acres, pole barn on site.  I think he could work at McDonald's and cover the bills.

12bruckd, on 20 April 2012 - 01:59 PM, said:

GM never paid back their loan.  Neither did Chrysler.
http://www.foxnews.c...xpayer-bailout/

General Motors announced this week that it repaid its multibillion-dollar taxpayer-backed TARP loans. GM even bragged that it was able to “repay the taxpayers in full, with interest, ahead of schedule, because more customers are buying [GM] vehicles.” There was great fanfare, including expensive, around-the-clock GM TV commercials nationwide. But, the hype is not the reality. In fact, GM did not repay the loans with money it earned from selling cars. Instead, GM repaid the TARP loans with money it withdrew from another TARP fund at the Treasury Department.

The day before the GM story broke, Neil Barofsky, the government TARP watchdog, testified before the Senate Finance Committee. He explained that GM did not use earnings to repay its TARP debt. The April quarterly report to Congress from his office stated: “The source of funds for these quarterly [debt] payments will be other TARP funds currently held in an escrow account.”

GM filings with the SEC reveal that GM was paying 7 percent interest on a $6.7 billion TARP debt. The filings also confirm that the source of funds for GM’s debt repayments was a multibillion-dollar TARP-funded escrow account at Treasury; that means it was taxpayer money — not earnings.

They paid Visa with Mastercard.  Nothing is paid off, just playing the money shuffle to make all appear well.

12bruckd, on 20 April 2012 - 02:29 PM, said:

What profits?  You're assuming the automakers are profitable?  

NumberCruncher, on 21 April 2012 - 07:16 PM, said:

That's the best time to shop for used trucks, start looking in the 'burbs where folks usually commute.

Not hard to find a nice, clean 2 yr old truck for 50 cents on the dollar of new last time gas spiked.

RBRXRMAN, on 21 April 2012 - 06:34 PM, said:

haha yea its not

Don't know if this helps but...

I have a 10' Tundra Crew Max with the 5.7 liter V-8. Not fully loaded but not a stripped model either. MSRP about 33K in 2010. I did get the tow package with the 4.10 gears in the rear end to pull a 31.5' toy hauler with a dry weight of 7,400 lbs. Add bikes, generator, sometimes 100 gallons of water, etc. and I'd imagine the weight it pulls is close to 10,000 lbs. It will pull it effortlessly. Now I did have to add a set of super springs on the back due to the tongue weight of the toy hauler (1364 lbs not including what's in the back of the truck), but other than that my Tundra is 100% stock.

The toy hauler I pull is a 2012 Forest River XLR Viper 29MBV and it has a V nose to help with the wind resistance. I average between 8 and 9 MPG pulling the toy hauler fully loaded. Driving my Tundra down the highway with the cruise control set at 65 mph I will get between 18 - 21mpg as long as there is no head wind. I've checked the mpg multiple times on the computer and at the pump. The computer says I get about 1 mpg better than the pump.

I wanted an F-250 bad but there was no way I could justify the price based on my pulling the toy hauler on average 12 - 16 times a year. When it came down to it, in 2010, the V-8 Tundra beat the V-8 F-150 and the V-8 Silverado hands down in all catergories period. Some of the mpg were equal but torque, payload, etc. not even close.

Now I have to say that my Tundra while under warranty did develop an oil leak (seep) on one of the heads. The dealership kept it a week, hooked me up with a courtesy truck, and it was all good. If I had to buy another full sized truck tomorrow, my decision would be easy....the Tundra.

This has been an interesting thread. It’s been my experience that 3 sick illegal immigrants can out work a dozen union members and produce twice the quality in half the time. Since unions have no quality, anything is an improvement.

I’m trying to remember that Nicholas Cage movie line where he was running guns and had to land the plane to avoid capture. He opened up the plane doors and the local people started unloading the guns. Cage’s line was something like, these half starved local people did in a few hours what would have taken the union boys a week to do.

MPG figures are a figment of the manufactures imagination. Those boys and girls in the marketing department just make them up to sound good on TV.

Whether one brand is better than another is open to discussion. They all have some issues. My neighbor bought a new 2011 Tacoma and at 2,500 miles the tranny went out. Fix under warranty. But folks think Toyotas are perfect. No they aren’t.

LaRider20, on 24 April 2012 - 12:00 PM, said:

Your axle ratio is not a 4.10 but a 4.30!

MotoX178, on 12 April 2012 - 02:51 PM, said:

Are you an American? Buy American. And we wonder why the economy's in the shitter....

toyota_mdt_tech, on 20 April 2012 - 07:16 PM, said:

The rest using 60% and under would imply GM, correct? Check your facts. At the GM plant here in fort Wayne I can start work in September and make $17 an hour as a janitor. The assembly workers here make well over $27 an hour too. Ask my dad, who has worked with them since he was 17 and started making aircraft engines before General Motors sold Allison's To royce back in '95, then he moved to the truck plant here. His pay is outstanding..... If there weren't 9 kids still living at home we'd be rich. Rich in my eyes anyway as a small town kid.

Jhawins, on 24 April 2012 - 09:08 PM, said:

Check the 15.6 trillion dollar debt and the refusal to harvest our own resources (oil). We ship 100's of billions offshore because we dont want to harm our red spot salamanders.

A few months ago i bought new and it was between toyota and gm, i drove both for about 100 miles before buying. In my opinion the fit and finish on the gm was better and it drove better. When both trucks were new fuel mileage seemed the same but the toyota sticker was like 13/18 and the gm was 15/21. 4 months latter i am happy with my decision.

skisnh, on 25 April 2012 - 03:51 AM, said:

There's another reason... Haha the list goes on and on. Sorry to go off topic, but I just read that for the first time in 40 years more Mexicans are leaving the US than are entering..... Wow.