)Hello Everyone. I posted a topic on here before asking about KDX200 and 220s. I was asking around to see if they were worth getting and if I was going to fit on some ( the bike being too small). I am 6'1" 210 with gear and do only trail riding, with a few jumps here and there. There are some tracks around me, but most are private or too far away. I am now thinking about getting a MX bike and doing just a few modifications to it to make it trail worthy. I was thinking of getting a 250 2 stroke. I am heart set on a 2 stroke because I've been riding 4 strokes for about 7 years and want a change. I am open to any brand really. CR YZ RM KX. I would like to stick with the core 4 (excluding KTM). I am going to look for a 2000 and up. I was planning on selling my DR350 and hopefully have MAXIMUM $1800. I found a few in my area, but most are $2000+. There's a couple for $1400-$1700 right in my price range. I still don't like the fact that EVERY single one has "fresh top end" in it. I feel as if the bike was used and abused to s**t and needed a new top end. I am aware that 2 Strokes tend to be rebuilt more frequent than 4 strokes. I just hate the fact that almost everyone has that. I also really wanted a bike with the USD forks. I find them to be a cleaner look than the standard fork and boot combo. Every KDX I have seen is the standard fork and also am curious if there is any forks I could replace them with to make them USD. Perhaps KX? So I am curious which brand should I go with? And also what are the top things needed? I was thinking a heavier flywheel, soften the suspension a little, and bark busters. I am not sure if I should just drop this idea and go with a KDX? I want the power of a 250, but don't want to buy a KDX200 or KDX220 and realize it doesn't have the power I'm looking for. I know $1800 isn't much to play with, which is why I was set on a KDX, but now thinking I can get a 250 for around $1500 and have some cash to use to make it woods ready. Any replies will be appreciated and anyone who has a KDX is more than welcome to push me into getting one. There is about 5-6 in my area and in my price range. Just need some help!!

Id go for the modified 250 over the KDX. I owned a KDX, then went to a modded 03 YZ250 for woods. Im about 180lbs and benifited from the extra power, i got much faster once I got used to the YZ.

However...you excluding bikes other than the big 4 Is your biggest mistake. I am now on a GasGas 300 2 stroke, and have ridden many KTM 2 strokes, they blow away a YZ. Other than myself, two of my ridding buddies (one is A class and one is local Pro), that had multiple YZ250's for racing local offroad and GNCC over the last 10 years, are now resectively on KTM and Husaberg 2 strokes. All of us have agreed we will NEVER buy a Jap. 2 stroke for any offroad use again. They just cant compete with the purpose built bikes, its not just suspension, its the handling...the power delievery, the build quality, the durability of parts, the ease of maintainece...it goes on and on.

My GasGas dealer stocks more parts than my Yamaha dealer ever did and when I do have to order stuff it gets shipped to my house faster than I could get parts for my YZ for about the same prices...same with my KTM buddy. So im just trying to let you know the reality. But if you are still stuck on Jap bikes. I recommend a YZ, its the only one that I still dont consider horrible compared to the Euro bikes...but its still a huge step down.

I recently sold a 2002 KDX 220 to a friend (almost exactly your size and weight).  The KDXs are very capable trail bikes, they are reliable and low maintenance.  On average, they will require less frequent rebuilds than a higher revving MX bike.  I know someone that has hundreds of hours on a 200 with minimal maintenance and the 220 I sold is still running strong.  However, you are correct about the suspension, they come stock with conventional forks.  The KDX suspension is nothing to write home about, but it gets the job done...and you will rarely have to replace the fork seals.  Some people put KX forks on the KDX.  There are all sorts of mods that can be done to a KDX, but those can be expensive.  Also, trailizing a 2t MX bike can be expensive...by the time you buy handguards, kickstand, and other parts a $1400-$1800 bike will need, you can drop some cash.  I am curious, why are you opposed to KTM?  By the time you buy a MX bike and deck it out for the trail, you could probably have bought a trail specific KTM 2t...just an idea.  What type of 4 strokes have you ridden?

KTM 2t's have gobs of power with the lowend grunt.

CDBiker220, on 29 March 2012 - 04:57 AM, said:

The only reason I excluded KTM is because of the price. I have nothing against the brand itself. In my area the cheapest is like $2500. And I have searched all over my state and MAYBE 1 GasGas for sale on CL. Once I get my tax returns I'm stuck on whether to use those towards a bike which would kick my max to above $2,000. I'll keep looking. Seems like it's either a YZ or KTM.

moto_rider7755, on 29 March 2012 - 05:06 AM, said:

I have only ridden 5 bikes total. My old 1980 XR80, a 1980s SL185, a 2005 KLX125, my buddies PE250 for like a mile, and my current bike being my DR350. I'm 18 so I want some good power. As I told the other guy, KTM is just expensive in my area.

moto_rider7755, on 29 March 2012 - 05:06 AM, said:

Totally agree, it will cost a bunch more in the long run to convert a mx bike then it would to go out and buy a trail/singletrack oriented bike. I have converted a bunch of mx bikes, lost my ass, then repeated. I finally got my head out of my ass and bought a bike that is specifically built for riding the trails, and has a plate for riding street (just used for trail connectors).

CDBiker220, on 29 March 2012 - 04:57 AM, said:

moto_rider7755, on 29 March 2012 - 05:06 AM, said:

crazy_dave, on 29 March 2012 - 05:12 AM, said:

Ok guys. I am now feeling like the MX conversion is not a good thing. So what are the models of some of the top trail 2 strokes? Like CRF250X for A Honda 4 stroke. I am curious because I am not familiar with all of the enduro/trail models. I am thinking about a KTM more and more, hopefully by the time my bike is sold I'll have the cash. Any replies will be helpful.

If you are not trying to race at competetive level you can set up a MX 2-stroke for trails and woods without a lot of expense.  Having done or seen this done with quite a few bikes I would say look at them in this order; KX, YZ, CR and RM.  KX 2 strokes generally have some pretty good manners for the trails.  YZ's much the same, CR less so and RM's in my experience the least so.  But it can be done, we've had 2 RM's set-up for trail/woods/HS.  KX though (2003) was the easiest to convert in our opinion.  We have friends who run 2 CR's on trail/woods.

Suspension work may be required but you can try oil level changes on the forks along with clicker settings.  make sure sag is correct out back and work with clickers.

Engine mods like a low-end pipe (gnarley) are helpful along with possible flywheel weight.  Also look at gearing carefully.

Skid plate will be needed.

Bark busters of course if you plan to hit the woods with any speed.

Kickstand?  Never had one nor have seen a big need for one, but hey thats just me....

It all depends on what you are trying to do with the bike while on the trail. If you want to get serious, get better and go fast and possibly race you should consider starting out with an off-road bike like a KTM and possibly have less money invested overall once you are done.

I hate to keep copying pics of my 2 stroke because i have done it once already today, but in another thread --- but here goes
--- granted , you are way out of my geographic area and there are no guarantees you could get a bike from a dude like me,  but.............. there are plenty of guys like me out there
    I shelved my '99 2 stroke for a 4 stroke long ago --- when 4 strokes came in vogue - it was almost more economical to keep it than sell it and lose my rear.  Now 2 strokes are hot again, and the '99-'02 chassis and motor are not off the back at all for enduro and scrambles use  - (unless your name is Mullins, Bobbitt, or Caselli)

I would probably let my scoot go for a g-note or so ,  -- max 1200 -- , so for the sake of conversation, lets add in a heavy flywheel and a Rekluse clutch (600 total) plus a new set of tires(200- max installed,  and an 18" is not needed unless you want a trials tire)  --- Thats it -- go ahead and add in  $150 for a chain/sprocket set  and 200 for a top end --
Thats 2350 for a bike that would be an absolute WEAPON in the hands of an age group class off-road competitor.  Add 200 if you need a big tank

So 2550 sounds like a big number -----  but a lot of the stuff i talked about you would add to  any bike within a month or two  ,  but my older Jap 2 stroke is a few hundred bucks less to start with -  take away $400 for the rekluse if you like to clutch it too (i dont anymore)  .

If its a trail effort -- do this and leave it alone if it was clean to start with  .   If its a racing effort and you care about such things -- Decal Works has a bunch of ways to spruce up a reliable old bike with a tired appearance

With any bike i buy ---- the initial purchase price is just the starting point.  ITs not about resale value or "losing your ass" later as another poster put it -- its about making a bike more effective for you for the way you want to ride    --- a used KTM may be an awesome base to start with, but i can visualize it needing a top end, tires and graphics too - unless it is mint

Hillcapper, on 29 March 2012 - 06:51 PM, said:

What you just said is exactly what I was planning on doing. Others are saying it wouldn't be the best to convert and others are saying go for it. I was actually thinking of getting all the above you wrote. I'm now planning on throwing some of my tax returns into this so I will have around 2k to play with. Where I live up in Mass almost every 2 stroke has a gnarly pipe, skid plates, handguards, and I feel the suspension would be stiff because of the MX background, but my weight might level things out and some tweaking might not be so bad. The flywheel weight is something I was also thinking about just because some tight trails I don't blast through so it would be nice so it wouldn't die out. I am not planning on racing at all. A SLIGHT chance of a harescramble or turkey run later on. I just mess around in the woods and trails, but the stuff gets bad quick and my DR can't handle some of it. There is a huge amount of KXs YZs and the others around me. Most are near my price range. Some more, some less, but in poor condition. I'll keep all this in mind and once I have the cash I will go through with your idea. Sounds like my thoughts down to the T. Thanks again.

Going the route described above is not a terrible idea. But...I'm just saying I picked up my 07 GasGas 300 for $2500 last year. It has a 6 speed tranny with hydraulic clutch, gobs of low end like a 450, but runs like a 250 on top. Has a slightly bigger tank(2.5 gal), 18" rear wheel. Plush but firm suspension, heavier flywheel with lighting coil, brand new tires, carbon fiber pipe guard, skid plate, steering damper..the list goes on. The natural power/delievery of the engine blows away my 03 YZ250, and the handling/turning is way way better in the trails. You cant get a KTM300 for that same price because of their popularity compared to GasGas but you could probably find a few year older one in similar condition. I just put a top end in mine this winter after one season for the hell of it, other than a few bearings and tires I havent had to put a dime into it. So your looking at $2500 for a rebuilt 99 YZ250 or $2500 for a 8 year newer purpose built bike...just saying this was the case in my experience...I am not tryin to tell you want to do, only to express how happy I was I made decision I did after coming from a YZ250...and that im just trying to pass that along

Edited by CDBiker220, 30 March 2012 - 04:59 AM.

As for whether a YZ can be converted to a decent woods bike, do a search here on TT and read what guys say about the results that they have actually done.  Be prepared to spend most of an afternoon.  There are LOTS OF THREADS.  I know because I wanted to know the same thing and read them all.  Most are quite happy with the results, but don't take my word for it.    Read those threads.  And many said that money was an issue since they weren't professional racers.  Happy reading.

CDBiker220, on 30 March 2012 - 04:58 AM, said:

You got a steal of a deal and you know it --  sometimes deals like tht come aong, most of the time, for most people, they don't   -- in my geographic area, that would still be a $3500 bike.   And the chances would be very good for most people  it would still need   tires, chain/sprockets and other assorted bits to prep it better for specific areas.  So with tires and a new driveline -- it would also be 4k-- or 4400 with a basic  auto clutch- and thats before suspension work - because i dont like the "all spring" feeling of riding a bike with sacked out suspension fluid (which starts happening at the 30 -35hour mark for a lot of people

'06 to '07 YZ's dont really lose much value compared to newer 08, 09's and are routinely listed at 3k ,  so given my analogy of the things most used bikes need (unless you get very lucky) -- its 4k before its ready to race or ride hard too

I just used my bike as an example because thats what i have to work with -- its a 99, but my it has less than 50 hours on it- its a nice blank canvas to start with. You could do the same thing with a 4 or 5 year newer machine as the steel framed YZ's are all relatively cheap -- i just turned down an '03 for 1300 bucks because i felt that for a 2nd bike -- its not enough of an improvement over the '99-'01 design to mess with, especially since my machine's suspension is set very nice for me


Just for the sake of conversation  (and to congratulate you for getting a sweet deal) -- i looked for some Gas Gas 300's for sale in the link below  ---- they hold their value pretty well and there are a handful of older bikes in there that are still listed at 3k.   One '07 250 for $2500, but it looks like its been to hell and back

http://motorcycles.o...s_gas/for-sale/

Edited by DMC707, 30 March 2012 - 07:55 AM.

I paid $2700 for my 2007 KTM 300 XC last May.  It needed about $500 worth of parts...tires, sprockets, chain, handguards, bearings, etc.  For $3200, one could have a trail specific 2t that will run 150 hours between top end rebuilds if maintained correctly.  I actually spent more than $500 for parts it could have done without, but that was my choice and not necessary.  The bike is an absolute woods beast...personally, I would never trade it for a trailized MX bike.  I know a guy that bought a 2001 300 EXC for $1800 and has probably spent $100 on the bike...its not much to look at, but it serves its purpose.  Buy a trail specific machine.

DMC707, on 30 March 2012 - 06:51 AM, said:

Some of the ones on there seam a bit pricey, usually the GasGas's go for less than a comparable model KTM. Take a look here just for fun, there are some pretty good deals http://www.gasgasrid...isplay.php?f=57 . I've seen many low hour 2011's for under 6k and a few under 5k. and some of the mid 2000's years around 2k to 2.5k which is more what I was thinking for the OP.

Edited by CDBiker220, 30 March 2012 - 08:47 AM.

CDBiker220, on 30 March 2012 - 08:46 AM, said:

I like your web link better than mine !     '08 Beta 525RR with Rekluse and dual sport plated for $3750 !   (i know its not what the OP wants or needs,  but i sure want one )    Alas, i am one of the unlucky few that pays and pays every year on April 15 instead of getting a refund -- so   

250 MX bikes make great woods bikes if you're an aggresive rider. More of a cruiser than the trail orientated bike will be a better choice.
It's not like it costs alot to convert a 250 MX bike.
FWW, handguards (needed with any bike anyways), skid plate and play with your suspension a bit.
2 strokes are cheap to play with power. No cost, retard ignition some and play with exhaust valve preload. Minor cost, mill head to lower compression if looking for tamer power.
I have an 03 RM250 that I bought for $1800 (prices are higher in Canada) Put another 2 grand into it completely rebuilding bike and adding mods. So for less than 4 grand I have a brand new bike personalized to my taste. I race woods with this bike and I couldn't be happier. I've ridden new Gas Gas's and KTM's and I'm still happier with my personalized RM than any of those new bikes. Sure I could set them up the same for me and they would be golden but now we're talking big bucks.
I would look for a YZ or RM 250 personally.

go with KTM, its cheaper

to make from a mx bike a trail bike you need:
- bark busters ....... $
- flywheel weight 100 $
- hidro-clutch 200 $
- 18" rear wheel to run a good enduro tire 200 $
- suspensin work ........ $
- motor porting 300-600 $ (eric gorr)
- WR tranny (for YZ) 150 $
.....................................................

You will get a lighter enduro bike , but with hard work and much money !

tribalbc, on 30 March 2012 - 09:01 AM, said:

I agree with this, as i would probably be labelled an "aggressive rider" in the woods -- i much prefer higher speed GP type events and motocross than woods riding.   An MX oriented machine might be better for me -- but i re-read the original post and my usage is not the same as the OP's (plus,  my old mx bike costs me nothing up front --- i could offroad mod it to the hilt and still have less than $1500 invested )

dmikel, on 30 March 2012 - 09:04 AM, said:

In the long run , your right, a KTM may be cheaper -- or a Gas Gas or Beta possibly cheaper still if you look in the right spots   (Beta used KTM motors for years and years)  and i have to agree - would be a better pure trail machine
-- where i disagree with this post though is that i don't think you really need to supply all the parts necessary to an MX bike to bring it up to KTM spec for it to be an acceptable machine.   Flywheel weight and barkbusters -- yes and yes.   But juice clutch, 18" wheel, porting, tranny? -- not needed --  plenty of tall profile 19"  tires out there,  - and the combination of different gearing, heavy flywheel and a nice spark arrestor, like an FMF Q, will tone the power down and smooth out the hit of any 2 stroke mxer.   Juice clutches are nice, but they are a luxury item

Still, unless you are like me and start out with a bike that costs nothing --- i gotta agree now that you would get more bang for the buck by looking for the best deal on a trail bike .  The CDBiker220  with the Gas Gas and the link he provided sold me    Some of the prices are pretty darn good for machines that aren't that old.   You just may have to drive a bit to get one (guess you would have to factor your gas and time into the price on a long distance deal though)

Edited by DMC707, 30 March 2012 - 09:54 AM.