How many times do I have to win open C on my 2001 yz250 before the 4 stroke craze ends???

But my dad can beat up your dad.

How you do in the 'C' class means next to nothing. It is how you do in the 'A' class that carries some weight. But if you would like a number, I'd say about eleventy-thousand.

Ugh, when will this banal discussion of how 'X' is better than 'Y' end? It would be one thing f there were facts instead of 'feel good' purchase justifications.

Oh...at first I thought he was being sarcastic, then realized it's the OP....are you, dirtjump???

there are facts.  250 2stroke= 46hp  250 4stroke=34hp
  250 2stroke full rebuild= $400?  250 4stroke rebuild=$2000?
  250 2stroke sound carries .75 miles?  250f sound carries forever?
  2stroke lap times = 4 stroke lap times.

how are those facts for you???  I think 4 stroke guys are the ones who need purchase justification when i beat them on my $1500 bike and they spend $9000!!!!!!!1

Those are far from facts (though the noise one can be true if the 'C' rider is compelled to have an open pipe).
A rebuild for the first several 100 hours on a 4S is more or less the same as on a 2s. Pistons and rings, only instead of every 25 hours like a 2S, you go up to 50 for a 4S. The valves only become an issue at the 200 hour mark. I have no idea where you get $2000 for a barrel, valves and piston. I think someone saw you comming.

Hp is not a measure of performance, only max speed. More important is torque, ie the ability to accelerate and how that torque is applied to the ground. Peak HP, if the curve is not nice and flat, is near useless anywhere but Bonneville.

Again, as I said before facts, not made up rumors. I own a lot of 2S and a lot of 4S. I have built a lot too.

No one is going to put much effort into 2S development until there is a market. Bike companies do not refuse to sell certain bikes just to stiff you, they make, develop and sell what the public buys. The public do not buy that many 2S. To make them go into the future will require things like direct injection. That would add a lot of money and weight as well as a huge maintenance cost. Then you have the emissions issue regarding unburned hydrocarbons and the requisite heated catalytic converter. A lot more cost and a lot more weight.

stick a valve and ruin a head.  and then if you want to put a pipe on theres another grand just to add 2 horsepower adn then youre still a lot slower than a 250 2 stroke.  The only person that rides a 4 stroke in my town blew it up twice in a row on 2 different rides and then quit riding motocross all together.  he was a C rider and not even a C winner.

A lot of you guys that dribble this and that about the multiple conspiracies against 2 strokes really ought to go out and buy these 2 strokes. Riding an 11 year old bike does nothing to show the mfgs what you want...

me too, I cant afford the big slow 4 strokes tho.. so I want other people to join in on the movement so that suzuki will sell 2 strokes here, yamaha will develop there 2 strokes, kawi will bring theirs back, and honda can go &%$#@! themselves with their cam shafts

the thing is that if people stay under the false impression that 4 strokes are the perfect race bike they will stop making 2 strokes.  then Im forced to ride a 4 stroke only because of the naive people who wont admit that a 4T will not make you faster.  Then, since 4 strokes are gay, it will blow up and cost me $2500 to fix.  Then its byebye motocross forever because of people like you letting a wildfire spread.

so the 125 blew up in the heat (arguably in a qualifying position, 8th) and the 250 finished 10th in the LCQ.  Who exactly are they beating again?

I don't understand posts like this. I am a big 2stroke fan also, but what are people trying to prove? These guys did no better on those 2stroke YZs than if they were to use a slightly modded 250f or 450f in their respective classes. It was cool that they raced them, but it really didn't prove anything. MXA put this arguement to rest in a few different articles. Test riders were throwing down moto times on stock 2010 YZ250s and then could put down the exact same moto time on a stock YZ250f. The 2stroke usually turned the fastest lap time for almost any of the test riders but also turned the slowest. The 4stroke was more consistant , so everything averaged out..and that was comparing the same displacement. 2 stroke enthusiests complain that a 250 shouldnt have to race a 450 (which i tend to argree it is lopsided) but there is a direct example of a heads-up cc for cc race and it was still equal. So it is what it is. i'm not the greatest racer in the world and I had some good moto finishes in Plus-25 Open on my YZ125 (against 250 2strokes, 450s, 250fs etc etc) but I'm not tryin to change the minds of every racer out there. The industry is what it is. Ride what you like.

And exactly how many 4 stroke riders do you think you'ré gonna convert by insulting their intelligence?

The fact is, it's not 2001 anymore. Both bikes can be as reliable with proper maintenance and cost about the same in the long term. It's now a matter of personal preference. I can tell you for a fact because I've owned, abused and maintained both over the last several years in almost every displacement available. I sold every bike I had last fall and bought the model that will give me the most fun on the track regardless of performance.

Before you start calling me names again saying I'm killing the 2 stroke like a whiny kid who didn't get the Christmas gift he asked for, I'm gonna ask you this question: when was the last time you spoke with your wallet and actually bought a BRAND NEW 2 stroke?

Ya I get that. I'm just saying that just because 2 guys qualified at Daytona and had average results that were pretty much on par with what they would've done on 4stroke bikes, doesn't to open up anyones eyes. Everyone understands the novelty that comes along with riding/racing a 2stroke, as well as the positives to owning one. The people that feel like you are still riding and enjoying them. The only thing that is gonna keep them alive is people continuing to buy them. That choice might be up to ours and might not (its still in the Manufacturers hands, to some extent). When it's all said and done, most people prefer the current 4strokes, so thats how it is. Maybe if some new technology comes along for the 2stroke (such as that Athena direct-injected 2stroke) then things will turn back around.