Just a quick question.  I was out riding yesterday and took a good over the bars get off going down hill.  We did about a 35mi technical single track loop yesterday and that was my only hiccup.  I tried climbing this long nasty hill climb just all sand with sharp square edge boulders underneath and wasn't gonna make it so turned to the side and did the normal U-turn lol.  On the way back down I had my butt back rear brake on verge of locking up and no front brake...I was comfortable with the speed....I hit a hard square rock and kicked the rear end up and the bike and I did an endo to face plant lol. Panic rev didn't help.  The bike and I did a few cartwheels and I had to ride about 12mi more without a front brake...(cracked where the banjo bolt goes in)

My question is what technique(if any) should I have done to prevent that....I know the best would have been not hitting the rock but it wasn't very visible in the sand.

First thing is to get used to using some front brake to control your speed better.  Rear brake only on downhills doesn't do too much for that.  Second thing is to get off the brakes when hitting an obstacle like that.  What happened is with the rear brake on, the rear wheel didn't get a chance to roll over the obstacle, it kicked hard instead, resulting in the endo.

Thx.  I never though about that with the back tire thats a good idea.  Is there any corrective things I could do once the back end is coming up and over.  Enough force to kick you up over the bars and endo the bike.  I panic revved but no luck.

Once the back end has kicked and is coming over, all you can do is lean back and hope for the best.

plus 1 on using more front brake.
I (kinda) figured out how to ride 1000cc road bikes before I got into dirtbikes.
When I was first learning to ride offroad I realized fast I had better control and confidence in my front brakes than the much more experenced riders that I was learning from.
I use the front brake as well as the rear on very steep down grades.
I'm FAR from a pro enduro rider believe me. I have gone over the bars more than once.

Edited by adam500, 13 March 2012 - 05:41 PM.

I'm a new rider and this has been my problem and source of fear too.  I've gone down some seriously steep, rocky hairball trails and only relying on my new lower gearing (14/52) and some very selective front braking, and still feel like I'm going too fast.  Oddly I've made the few downhills ok but I had two low-side falls just after when setting up for the next much easier section, probably brain purge!  I notice that when I use the rear I can hear the chain start to bind up, I'm definitely more comfortable fanning the front.  So I guess it's just a lot more practice and finesse with the brakes and getting used to going a bit faster than I like?

CBus660R, on 13 March 2012 - 06:21 AM, said:

This is right on.  Of course, you should be standing, but definitely get off the brakes for something like that.  While you're braking, the suspension is compressing and storing more energy to toss you, but also it doesn't allow the suspension to really work.  Try to brake on the smoother sections or if it's too rough, pump the brakes quickly.

Yea I'm always standing..sitting is for fire roads that take you to the trails lol. I wasn't on the front brake because I wasn't really trying to slow down just using the back to kinda "steer".  I guess the best would be to let off the brake...I never thought of that.besidies that I was hoping for some kind've corrective technique once its doing the endo but all I can think off is getting my weight back and trying to ride it out.

Its sounds like the rebound on your shock needs to be adjusted AND get used to using the front brake.  One of the drills Shane Watts has you do on a flat surface is lock up the front wheel and push it along with the throttle.  To get better you need to work on balance and be comfortable if or when your front end locks up.   Good luck.

CBus660R, on 13 March 2012 - 06:21 AM, said:

You nailed it.   The rear tire couldn't roll over the object because of the brake.  Learn to ease up on the brakes when going over obstacles.       I also sounds like you may have been covering the front a bit.   That rear kick may have caused you to tap the front.

I am learning to just let the bike roll downhill and try to be on the gas if I can.   You have to stand up and grip with your knees.  When you do that, you can roll downhill almost as fast as you want and handle the obstacles.  

We all have been there.  As a matter of fact, I still do it!

I think my high speed was off, but its fixed now.  I'm comfortable with braking and locking the front up and even find it usefull sometimes...I was actually going slower than I normally would...I guess I should have re-phrasd my question as to what you do after not paying attention.. and the rear end getting kicked up on a steep downhill, with enough force to make the bike do a endo.   This last post seems correct...I probably would have normally been on the gas if I was riding my  normal pace I just had my head half way up my @ss that day lol.

Chris Hammer, on 14 March 2012 - 03:03 PM, said:

LOL  We've all been there (and will again from time to time)!

CBus660R, on 15 March 2012 - 06:24 AM, said:

Yea somedays things just don't start off right and usually I try and turn em around but end up hurt lol.  Lucky this time.  Last time I had a day like that we got to the track had a pinch flat...changed the tire there at the track...realized we left rim lock out so changed again....forgot goggles at home so borrowed a buddies.....I was determined to race no matter what lol Long story short dislocated shoulder first lap.

Well since we dont have two spark plug holes anymore so we can put a compression release in one, then yes your front brake is your best friend on steep downhills. The back brake will definately get you in trouble.

My friend was saying that he shuts the engine off and keeps it in gear and uses the clutch as a rear brake.  Anyone ever try that?  I think that's a reason for not getting one of those rekluse clutches.

helix66, on 15 March 2012 - 10:04 PM, said:

Not the best idea. Learn to use your rear brakes, thats why they are there.

Edited by dmikel, 16 March 2012 - 04:51 AM.

helix66, on 15 March 2012 - 10:04 PM, said:

The only time I use that technique is on failed hillclimbs where I have to bulldog the bike back down to a point where I can hop on and ride the bike the rest of the way.  Used the technique quite a bit the last time out since we were busting trail and developing some new hillclimbs that hadn't been ridden before on a piece of land my club has access to.

If you're still on 2 wheels and actually riding the bike down, I can't think of 1 scenario where it's better to have a stalled motor and no abilitiy to blip the throttle as needed.

Edited by CBus660R, 16 March 2012 - 03:03 PM.

I know my friend is a really good rider so I know he's well aware of how to use his brakes, I think he only does that once in a while on super steep stuff.  I'm just trying to figure out what's good technique and what works for me since I'm still a novice and those rocky dh sections still freak me out.

helix66, on 15 March 2012 - 10:04 PM, said:

On some really nasty, twisty down hills we have used this with success, but only because some two strokes (mx bikes) arent that great at idling. Engine off, and in neutral is in some cases more controllable than clutch in and keeping the engine alive. To answer your question yes it can be used with success in some situations. I never had to with my 4T when I had it.

helix66, on 17 March 2012 - 01:49 PM, said:

We go down a few really really long down hills(ears pop from elevation change)...and that is the only time I ever turn off the bike.....I put it in neutral and use only the brakes.  Partially because my bike gets hot just idleing for 5min and because I can let go of the cltuch and cut down a little on that arm pump.