Power-to-weight ratio: 2012 YZ450F vs the other 2012 350F to 450F vs. the 2009 to 2012 250 2T


20 replies to this topic
  • joshua_inigo

Posted March 05, 2012 - 04:50 AM

#1

[color=#222222][color=#000000]Data pertaining to power and dry weight sourced from Motocross Action

HONDA CRF450
Power: 52.59 hp
Dry weight: 231 lb (105 kg)
Power-to-weight ratio: 0.50 hp/kg

KTM 450SX-F
Power: 53.24 hp
Dry weight: 243 lb (110.45 kg)
Power-to-weight ratio: 0.48 hp/kg

KTM 350SX-F
Power: 48.69 hp
Dry weight: 236 lb (107.27 kg)
Power-to-weight ratio: 0.45 hp/kg[/color][/color]

[color=#0000cd]YAMAHA YZ450F[/color]
[color=#222222][color=#000000]Power: 55.00 hp
Dry weight: 238 lb (108.18 kg)
Power-to-weight ratio: [/color][/color][color=#0000cd]0.51 hp/kg[/color]

[color=#222222][color=#000000]KAWASAKI KX450F (MXA's 2012 shootout winner)
Power: 55.50 hp
Dry weight: 242 lb (110.00 kg)
Power-to-weight ratio: 0.50 hp/kg

SUZUKI RMZ450
Power: 54.08 hp
Dry weight: 244 lb (110.91 kg)
Power-to-weight ratio: 0.49 hp/kg[/color][/color]

[color=#222222][color=#000000]2012 KTM 250SX
Power: 50.00 hp
Dry weight: 217 lb (98.64 kg)
Power-to-weight ratio: 0.51 hp/kg

The 2012 250SX is currently the "CATBIRD" of the modern-age 2-stroke from 2011 to present[/color][/color]

[color=#222222][color=#000000]Dry weight power to weight ratio of the YZ250[/color][/color]
[color=#0000cd]2009 to 2010 YAMAHA YZ250 (US-version)[/color]
[color=#222222][color=#000000]Power: 46.8 hp
Dry weight: 211.2 lb (96.0 kg)
Power-to-weight ratio: [/color][/color][color=#0000cd]0.49 hp/kg[/color]

[color=#222222][color=#000000]Wet weight power to weight ratio of the YZ250[/color][/color]
[color=#0000cd]2009 to 2010 YAMAHA YZ250 (US-version)[/color]
[color=#222222][color=#000000]Power: 46.8 hp
Wet weight/ curb weight: 211.2 lb + 16.78 lb premix [/color]fuel[color=#000000] 8-litre full-tank, transmission oil, coolant, etc = 227.98 lb (103.63 kg)
Power-to-weight ratio: [/color][/color][color=#0000cd]0.45 hp/kg-wet[/color]

Edited by joshua_inigo, March 05, 2012 - 04:54 AM.


  • VetRacer75

Posted March 06, 2012 - 02:40 AM

#2

Interesting stuff, thanks for the post.
So in the 450's the Yami is the second lightest to Honda and second most powerfull to Kawi but with the best power to weight ratio.
Getting all that power into forward momentum is the tricky bit (easier on a four stroke to).
I'm loving my 11YZ450.
They are all so close these days, and with aftermarket goodies and mods these figures would change.

  • joshua_inigo

Posted March 06, 2012 - 04:38 AM

#3

Interesting stuff, thanks for the post.
So in the 450's the Yami is the second lightest to Honda and second most powerfull to Kawi but with the best power to weight ratio.
Getting all that power into forward momentum is the tricky bit (easier on a four stroke to).
I'm loving my 11YZ450.
They are all so close these days, and with aftermarket goodies and mods these figures would change.


Yes correct, it is the 2nd lightest and 2nd most powerful but it puts out the best hp per its own weight. For me, the 2012 YZ450F is the best buy 450F in terms of power, and in terms of its reliability, more than anything. Motocross Action has always raved about the dependability and reliability of the 5-valve engine, as well as the YZ250F engine, compared to any bikes out there....

For comparison, the 2012 KTM 250SX is the only modern 2T MX bike that can match that power-to-weight ratio.... Even the alumimum-frame YZ250, that Motocross Action just said so can be reduced to another 5 lbs more easily, or down to 206 lbs (93.7 kg) by putting some of the YZ-F lightweight components to it, perhaps such as the new swing-arm, can close that gap to 0.50 hp/kg-dy.

  • ah665

Posted March 06, 2012 - 07:32 AM

#4

Great post. It's a shame this bike seems to get a lot of negative comments. It seems very underrated to me. Great overall perforamance and top-notch reliability. What more can you ask for? Thats why I chose Yamaha when I got my 250F also. I seem to be in the minority when I say that I like Yamahas direction they have taken both of the YZFs. Either way, cool facts, thanks for the post.

  • joshua_inigo

Posted March 06, 2012 - 09:53 PM

#5

Great post. It's a shame this bike seems to get a lot of negative comments. It seems very underrated to me. Great overall perforamance and top-notch reliability. What more can you ask for? Thats why I chose Yamaha when I got my 250F also. I seem to be in the minority when I say that I like Yamahas direction they have taken both of the YZFs. Either way, cool facts, thanks for the post.


You see, a lot of them KTM boys, if not all, lie when they talk about how stellar their bike is while all the others are crap.

Well you know how people can manipulate what they say as if it's always the true.... BUT evidences such as these numbers don't lie :lol:

The 2012 YZ450F is the best bike out there and it will shame the high-publicity only KTM 450SX-F and 350SX-F :bonk:

Edited by joshua_inigo, March 06, 2012 - 09:54 PM.


  • ah665

Posted March 07, 2012 - 06:26 AM

#6

I've never owned a KTM so i can't say first-hand. However, some friends have the and I was not too impressed with how the hold up (especially the 144/150sx). They do come with some nice features, however. But look at the Dirt Rider Long-haul test on the 2010 yz450f. 100+hrs of racing with no problems. MXA voted both the YZ250f and 450f as number 1 in reliability. And the over-all history of these bikes shows that they might not have 1 particular aspect of their performance that stands out above all others, but they do everything well. The 1 aspect that does stick out over the competition, is the reliability, however and there is something to be said for that. I'm not saying everyone should run out and buy a YZf, as the Kawi seems like a nice package and I love the lightness of the Honda (most of my friends that race 450s are on Hondas) but I just feel like the YZf is too good of a bike to get over-looked, or at least be in the conversation when it comes time to buy a bike.

  • joshua_inigo

Posted March 07, 2012 - 07:11 AM

#7

I've never owned a KTM so i can't say first-hand. However, some friends have the and I was not too impressed with how the hold up (especially the 144/150sx). They do come with some nice features, however. But look at the Dirt Rider Long-haul test on the 2010 yz450f. 100+hrs of racing with no problems. MXA voted both the YZ250f and 450f as number 1 in reliability. And the over-all history of these bikes shows that they might not have 1 particular aspect of their performance that stands out above all others, but they do everything well. The 1 aspect that does stick out over the competition, is the reliability, however and there is something to be said for that. I'm not saying everyone should run out and buy a YZf, as the Kawi seems like a nice package and I love the lightness of the Honda (most of my friends that race 450s are on Hondas) but I just feel like the YZf is too good of a bike to get over-looked, or at least be in the conversation when it comes time to buy a bike.


Yes, the Unicam Honda is light actually. i have friends on WR250F and CRF250X, and the red rider is lighter. Even the MX-bike CRF250

But the Yamaha is just bullet-proof. You know how typical trailriders do with their bikes; typically, we use them til they drop to the ground, like repairs and maintenance are just pitchy-patchy, and quite far in-between, unlike MX racers that replace parts frequently on a regular basis to restore the topnotch performance of their bikes.... All the early 2003 YZ250F's and 2005 and up WRF's within the group are still running, although a lot of us are two strokers and mainly on YZ's, DT125's and DT175's, which are also Yamaha's hehe :bonk:

That sizeable power-to-weight ratio on the 2012 YZ450F is a testament why Yamaha's are very good bikes generally-speaking, even when the YZF is underrated to some :lol:

Edited by joshua_inigo, March 07, 2012 - 07:14 AM.


  • joshua_inigo

Posted March 10, 2012 - 06:52 AM

#8

How was the 2009 YZ450F compared to the 2010?

It seemed like a good bike, but is it at par with the current one these days?

James looks more refined with this old model, the way i see him....


  • thestuz

Posted March 10, 2012 - 06:31 PM

#9

the 09 was 3 kg lighter.
you guys are forgetting the main factors here...
TORQUE!
hp is nothin without torque to get it there!

personally, id like to see all these pro riders get back on 2strokes and earn there money!

  • Monk

Posted March 10, 2012 - 07:02 PM

#10

Power to weight ratio is only a fraction of it! Buying a bike based on the power to weight ratio is stupid. What make the Kawi and KTM so good it the "way" the power is delivered. Though the 350 is underpowered compared to the 450s, it "feels" lighter the the others as does the Suzuki. The Honda is the lightest but also the most choked up(have you seen the muffler hole, its tiny!). The best bike is the one that works the best.

To also add, what good is power if its not able to be controlled?

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  • joshua_inigo

Posted March 10, 2012 - 09:01 PM

#11

the 09 was 3 kg lighter.
you guys are forgetting the main factors here...
TORQUE!
hp is nothin without torque to get it there!

personally, id like to see all these pro riders get back on 2strokes and earn there money!


Hey, hang-on mate.... We know what torque is, which is otherwise known as pulling force....

You may go at the Trucks, Haulers, Pickups threads about diesel pickups and/or at Yami 2T forum to see what i mean by pulling-force. And power is directly proportional to the pulling-force times the engine radial speed (rpm) of the engine.

Just to briefly give you an indication, a YZ250 2-stroke produces a peak pulling-force of 30.6 lb force-ft at 7500 rpm, while the YZ450F, a peak torque of around 34.0 lb force-ft, also at 7500 rpm. However, since the 450F can hold its peak power so long, say starting from 8000 rpm all the way to 10,500 rpm or so, if you plot these numbers along the x-and-y axes, you'd already see how the torque is distributed so widely throughout this rev-window at max power output. Radial torque, in its simplicity, is thus equal to hp x 5252/rpm.

Those horsepower values written there are just taken en toto from Motocross Action's series of tests on each bike.... Didn't add anything more than to compare the 2-stroke 250's with the bigbore 4T's just to preserve what really came out of the MXA's testing results. Should you have time to browse through the Motocross Action website, you may also find that the 2012 250SX makes 49.7 hp and provides a pulling force of >31.0 lb force-ft.

i'm with you by the way, when it comes to 2-stroke :thumbsup:

  • joshua_inigo

Posted March 10, 2012 - 09:13 PM

#12

Power to weight ratio is only a fraction of it! Buying a bike based on the power to weight ratio is stupid. What make the Kawi and KTM so good it the "way" the power is delivered. Though the 350 is underpowered compared to the 450s, it "feels" lighter the the others as does the Suzuki. The Honda is the lightest but also the most choked up(have you seen the muffler hole, its tiny!). The best bike is the one that works the best.

To also add, what good is power if its not able to be controlled?


For me Pumpkin450SXF, if i were to buy a 450F, i'd be looking at that (1) Power-to-weight ratio (since i know how the power and torque is distributed along the rev-range in a 450F engine), and (2) Reliability

Incidentally, and according to what Motocross Action has come out through years of studying and documenting different bikes, the 2012 YZ450F has it all, and that is (1) TOPNOTCH RELIABILITY and (2) BEST POWER-TO-WEIGHT RATIO ....Just do an arithmetic division on item 2 to get there :thumbsup:

  • aja342

Posted March 11, 2012 - 06:04 AM

#13

[color=#222222]The problem is it takes more time and fine tuning to get a bike with handling issues sorted out than it does to add a few HP to an engine. I had to change the way I ride compared to my '06. After stepping off a 2002 CR250 (2T) in 2002 and not riding till the '06 YZ450f in 2010, I was able to pick right up with it. Going from the '06 to the '11 I had to change considerably to keep the front from washing out if I focus on anything else but cornering, it is not as intuitive as it used to be.[/color]

  • grayracer513

Posted March 11, 2012 - 08:12 AM

#14

Weight, torque, horsepower, P/W ratio, etc. are all interesting to some people, but in and of themselves, they're all also meaningless. Either the bike works or it doesn't, and what it comes down to is chassis, suspension and tractability. Besides, the bike is only 20% of the equation anyway.

Buying a bike based on a spec sheet is a fool's gambit. Arguing endlessly about which specs make which bike better is a waste of time and space.

  • aja342

Posted March 11, 2012 - 12:44 PM

#15

Specs help you see where you are starting from and what direction you might want to spend more time/money on.

  • joshua_inigo

Posted March 11, 2012 - 08:02 PM

#16

Specs help you see where you are starting from and what direction you might want to spend more time/money on.


Could have never said it better AJA! :thumbsup:

This is true and applicable in everyway ---- in buying a car, in choosing heavy equipment, in choosing materials for any infrastructure projects etc etc....

So how does the bike differ from any of them as what some gentlemen are saying here :thumbsup:

  • Monk

Posted March 11, 2012 - 09:02 PM

#17

Could have never said it better AJA! :thumbsup:

This is true and applicable in everyway ---- in buying a car, in choosing heavy equipment, in choosing materials for any infrastructure projects etc etc....

So how does the bike differ from any of them as what some gentlemen are saying here :thumbsup:


I just don't take you serious anymore. You have a very biased opinion about things. IMO, your posts are just to narrow minded. You need to start looking at things, especially motorcycles from other peoples views also.

As said before in a previous post you stated that you would buy a bike based on 2 things. 1.) Power to weight and 2.) Reliability. Now your saying to look at all things when considering a bike (specs)??? Though the numbers might show the YZF as favorable on paper, that doesn't mean squat in the real world! Point being is you really sound like MXA because you keep referencing them. I do think MXA is great, they are not the authority on motorcycles. My best advice to ride different motorcycles, ride them for longer then 15min so you can gather information that is relevant to the real world and real people. As of right now, IMO, your information isn't worth the paper the specs are printed on.

  • joshua_inigo

Posted March 11, 2012 - 11:04 PM

#18

I just don't take you serious anymore. You have a very biased opinion about things. IMO, your posts are just to narrow minded. You need to start looking at things, especially motorcycles from other peoples views also.

As said before in a previous post you stated that you would buy a bike based on 2 things. 1.) Power to weight and 2.) Reliability. Now your saying to look at all things when considering a bike (specs)??? Though the numbers might show the YZF as favorable on paper, that doesn't mean squat in the real world! Point being is you really sound like MXA because you keep referencing them. I do think MXA is great, they are not the authority on motorcycles. My best advice to ride different motorcycles, ride them for longer then 15min so you can gather information that is relevant to the real world and real people. As of right now, IMO, your information isn't worth the paper the specs are printed on.


Lemme remind you buddy, kindly read your previous post first as to why i've said that, which is in direct reference to your post:

Power to weight ratio is only a fraction of it! Buying a bike based on the power to weight ratio is stupid. What make the Kawi and KTM so good it the "way" the power is delivered. Though the 350 is underpowered compared to the 450s, it "feels" lighter the the others as does the Suzuki. The Honda is the lightest but also the most choked up(have you seen the muffler hole, its tiny!). The best bike is the one that works the best.

To also add, what good is power if its not able to be controlled?


Now, look who's bias and telling people are stupid when looking at those specs? Almost every sentence you got there are ending in exclamation points....

You don't hafta take me seriously man in as much as some of what you're saying (not all of them though) i don't take them at all.... The feeling is mutual in this aspects we're discussing here :thumbsup:

One thing i know though which is somewhat a signature of you ---- if the KTM 450SX-F or 350SX-F happens to be MXA's 2012 bike of the year and giving the best power-to-weight ratio compared to all the Japanese bikes, you wouldn't even butt-in nor react here here buddy :thumbsup:

Have a nice day....

Edited by joshua_inigo, March 11, 2012 - 11:07 PM.


  • Monk

Posted March 11, 2012 - 11:25 PM

#19

Lemme remind you buddy, kindly read your previous post first as to why i've said that, which is in direct reference to your post:



Now, look who's bias and telling people are stupid when looking at those specs? Almost every sentence you got there are ending in exclamation points....


You don't hafta take me seriously man in as much as some of what you're saying (not all of them though) i don't take them at all.... The feeling is mutual in this aspects we're discussing here :thumbsup:

One thing i know though which is somewhat a signature of you ---- if the KTM 450SX-F or 350SX-F happens to be MXA's 2012 bike of the year and giving the best power-to-weight ratio compared to all the Japanese bikes, you wouldn't even butt-in nor react here here buddy :thumbsup:

Have a nice day....


FYI, one sentence ends in a exclamation mark in my first post. Again, referencing MXA again, you should see if you can get on their payroll. As for your statement towards what "I would supposedly say if" MXA made the KTM 350/450 BOTY, I wouldn't care, and I still wouldnt have run to the dealer and bought one. I don't base my purchases on power to weight ratios. I base it on practical knowledge and what works the best for me and the situations I ride in. I race HS/CC, the best bike for me for this type of riding is a KTM 250xc. Though it might not seem like the best bike for some, it will be the perfect bike for others. But I can tell you that I didn't walk into a dealer looking to buy a bike with the best power to weight ratio. Just like grayracer and myself have stated, it's foolish and stupid to buy a bike purely on specs.

  • joshua_inigo

Posted March 11, 2012 - 11:38 PM

#20

FYI, one sentence ends in a exclamation mark in my first post. Again, referencing MXA again, you should see if you can get on their payroll. As for your statement towards what "I would supposedly say if" MXA made the KTM 350/450 BOTY, I wouldn't care, and I still wouldnt have run to the dealer and bought one. I don't base my purchases on power to weight ratios.


Fine buddy, hey take it easy, that's how you roll OK????? That's fine, that's your right....

The thread i started here is just a direct quote from MXA, OK????? As far as i'm concern, i just wanted to collate what they've said about the 2012 big-bores, that's all.

Better just go ride your Pumpkin soup with matching Pumpkin-coloured briefs and socks than frolick here at Yamaha if you don't want how the thread started.... Don't read it if you don't like it all, simple as that sir. That's the only advice i can share here.... You don't hafta loiter here in the thread i just started just for information purposes....

I base it on practical knowledge and what works the best for me and the situations I ride in. I race HS/CC, the best bike for me for this type of riding is a KTM 250xc. Though it might not seem like the best bike for some, it will be the perfect bike for others. But I can tell you that I didn't walk into a dealer looking to buy a bike with the best power to weight ratio. Just like grayracer and myself have stated, it's foolish and stupid to buy a bike purely on specs.


You just proved my point haha! :thumbsup:

See, yet another KTM as your best bike JEEZE! It's a never-ending loop....

Just continue your politicking with a co-forumer and moderator here to help you reiterate your opinions about the subject and continue using those terms buddy ---- foolish and stupid

Edited by joshua_inigo, March 11, 2012 - 11:41 PM.






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