116 replies to this topic

[JVT TT Member]

The bike's are differnt when it comes to AWD.
Have you owned

Naf, on 16 April 2013 - 02:19 AM, said:

Like a car the front has to be 48% and the rear 52%

All the awds are like that, it keeps the steerin balanced,

The bikes have a slip clutch for the front. The front  turns more on corners . My rokons are 100% pull on the front and my christini is that way now.
I don't like spinning the rear on a hill to get the front to help out. The christini front will slip both ways  and rokon is one way only.
I am not sure what you mean by balanced?? You have a heavy feeling when engguaged  at 100% pull.
I have my christini  cylinder off for a new  electric sarter now but your welcome to come over and see for yourself. You can ride  the rokon  or the christini .
Maybe all awd are like that  but the bikes that i have are 100% pull.
jim

Edited by JVT, 17 April 2013 - 08:41 AM.

[Naf TT Bronze Member]

So for every turn your rear wheel makes the front turns the same amount? Or is it slightly less?

This is the split i am referring too. Given the fact that the front tire is larger than the rear, If your front wheel made one full turn and your rear wheel made one full turn as well, then you would have more pull from the front then the rear. and if the rear wheel completes one full turn and the front does an incomplete turn with a distance less then the rear that would have more push from the rear...

Edited by Naf, 18 April 2013 - 12:07 AM.

[PeteN TT Gold Member]

You have to take into account the diameters of the front and rear tires, with the standard 21/18 the front is larger diameter, but with the Supermoto 17/17 the front is smaller.  I run 1 tooth larger outer sprocket on the counter shaft when I switch to my SM wheels to correct for this.

In a car the gearing must be the same front to rear because there is no one way clutch like the Christini uses in the front hub, otherwise the front and rear wheels would bind as it moved.  I assume you are talking about torque split being 48:52 in an AWD car?  Subaru uses what they call "symetrical AWD", which is 50/50 torque split.  This is OK for street use, but for WRC racing most cars use closer to 40/60 front to rear to improve steering under power.

The torque split in the Christini is controlled by the slip clutch in the main drive shaft, but it probably shouldn't be more than about 25-30% to the front to avoid damage?  The Rokon is locked (no one way clutch) front to back at 1:1 gearing, I believe, correct me if I'm wrong JVT.  I am curious how the Christini acts with 1:1 gearing?  I am about 80% front compared to the approximate 66% stock set up.

Edited by PeteN, 18 April 2013 - 01:45 PM.

[JVT TT Member]

I don't think the front hub slips at all on the christini. Spin the wheel and watch the two drive shafts next to the front shocks . They rotate. . And yes I could have some wear    but i just don't want  to climb a hill and have to spin to use the front.   Off the trails  i don't  use the front drive and handeling  is the same as stock. The thumb switch  is really handy  and should cut down on the clutch  wear your thinking about. i see no reason to use   the front when I  am off the trail and don't mind stopping to put it in.
The christine at full pull in the front  the steering is heavy all the time  when engaged . I am not sure  what you are asking  when you say how  it acts.  Like I said it stops  the fish tailing on spin outs  or climbing. Maybe I should correct my self  you still can fish tail  but not as bad.  If you like  spinning  in the snow and that just dont lock it in. Off the trails  i don't  use the front drive and handeling  is the same as stock. The thumb switch  is really handy  and should cut down on the clutch  wear your thinking about. i see no reason to use   the front when I  am off the trail and don't mind stopping to put it in.
rokons have a one way clutch  and they are very forgiving on how you want to gear them.  If you  have no clutch  on the front  you will  have balancing problems  on the corners  when ithe front wheel spins faster.  The rokons are useally 1to 1  and no way to run  without  full time   unless you remove a chain.  Mine are older ones  so The newer  rokons may have options I don't know of.

Jim

[PeteN TT Gold Member]

JVT, on 18 April 2013 - 11:46 PM, said:

I don't think the front hub slips at all on the christini. Spin the wheel and watch the two drive shafts next to the front shocks .

No, the front hub contains the one way clutch, the slipper (torque limiter) clutch is on the drive shaft by the gearbox connected to the upper sprocket.  You have to remove the gas tank to see it, check your manual on how to adjust it.  You should be barely able to turn the front wheel backward with the rear locked.

JVT, on 18 April 2013 - 11:46 PM, said:

I am not sure  what you are asking  when you say how  it acts.  Like I said it stops  the fish tailing on spin outs  or climbing. Maybe I should correct my self  you still can fish tail  but not as bad.  If you like  spinning  in the snow and that just dont lock it in. Off the trails

That is what I was wondering about.  I like to slide a lot and was wondering how the bike steered with even drive ratio.  You must have it gear very low to the rear wheel to get it even front to back, since they only make 11/15 front sprockets?

Edited by PeteN, 19 April 2013 - 11:14 AM.

[JVT TT Member]

It is easy to make a jig and weld up what you want . On the countershaft  I  had 9/13,10/12 and 10/11  is on now.  I don't know how to figure out  the gearing  so I just changed it untill  the front worked. 10/11 it started working the way I wanted  with a 51 rear. I am doing 9mph at 1700rpm idle and i don't have a tacometer but it  sounds  like the top may be at 57mph. I don't know how high you can run our engines. Ash  helps me when I need it.
I see that front wheel bearing now.
I got new honda  head gaskets today   so I should finish my starter replacement on saturday morning.
If I could get that new photobucket  site working for me i would post some pictures.

[JVT TT Member]

[IMG]http://i3.photobucke...sprocket005.jpg[/img]
This is after lowering it.

Edited by JVT, 21 April 2013 - 08:18 AM.

[Fade TT Gold Member]

PeteN, on 06 June 2012 - 02:06 PM, said:

I also am pretty sure that a CRF450 cam will fit, but still not sure which year?

Careful, aftermarket cams with stock compression can make it harder to start.......even with a battery........

Great looking bike, best of luck with it!

[PeteN TT Gold Member]

I got mine on the dyno this weeekend.  It was about what I expected, 38HP, but the guy who owned the dyno was impressed.  He said his YZF450 made the same power!?  But I think the knobby tire kills off 2-3 HP?  This is with a CRF450X header, Lexx slip on muffler, and an FCR40 carb.  He said I could probably gain another HP by going up on the main jet to get the A/F around 12:1.  I think a CRF450R cam will pull that torque peak up in the rpm range a little.  My XR650R pulled 51HP, not bad through the stock muffler!?  

Edited by PeteN, 22 April 2013 - 10:53 AM.

[JVT TT Member]

Is the rpm missing or am reading it wrong?

[PeteN TT Gold Member]

RPM is across the bottom x1000.

[JVT TT Member]

RPM is covered by a large banner adv. I think it starts to drop at 8000??

Edited by JVT, 25 April 2013 - 05:30 PM.

[PeteN TT Gold Member]

Yes, it peaks between 7500 and 8000.

[PeteN TT Gold Member]

So Seat Concepts was nice enough to send me a CRF450X seat kit for the Christini! The Seat Concepts seat kit is a very nice piece. It contains the new seat foam, the cover in your choice of coverings, and very good instructions. I those plain black vinyl, but you can also get Carbon look and gripper, see their website. There is also a link to a video on installing the seat kit, I actually found two on YouTube, one on a KLR and one on a KTM. These really helped too.

Here is a shot of the stock seat on the bike. I needed to pull the cover of anyway because one of the seat brackets was starting to come loose. When I removed the cover, I found out why. Even though the seat base was molded with little spot face type flat areas for using backing plate washers behind the pop rivets used to attach the brackets, they didn't use any?! The rivets, not surprisingly, started to pull through the plastic seat base.



Below you can see the seat base in the center, the stock foam above, and the Seat Concepts Comfort foam for a CRF450X below. You can also see the Christini seat is virtually identical to the CRF450X seat base. I also re-attached the brackets using new rivits and backing plates, which should hold much better. The Christini did not use any adhesive to hold the stock foam to the base, as most bikes do and SC recommends.



Besides the spray adhesive to attach the foam to the base, you'll need a small screw driver to pry off the staples holding the stock cover on. You'll also need a stapler, probably a pnuematic, as SC uses, or an electric like I used to attach the cover. I am not sure if a manual stapler would be strong enough to get the staples fully in? Anyway, it is a pretty simple process and you should finish very quickly.

I did find the "Comfort" seat to be a little wide in the center for me, so I trimmed it just a little, creating what I would call a Sport/Comfort seat. The Comfort being their wider version, while the Sport is only slightly wider than stock. And here is the finished product installed, which I am very happy with. The foam and the padded seat cover seem much more comfortable, but I'll have to verufy that in the future. Thanks to Seat Concepts for a great product!

[JVT TT Member]

I like the looks  of that. You didn't give the cost.
jim

[PeteN TT Gold Member]

The kits run for $159, less than half of what my Renazco seat cost.  So for an added hour or so of my labor, it seems like a great deal to me?!

[Naf TT Bronze Member]

Checkout the classifieds for a chance to buy a AWD frame kit that will fit your KTM