Why are 450's bad for woods?


19 replies to this topic
  • Bearman108

Posted February 19, 2012 - 09:51 AM

#1

Alright everybody, here's my question. Why do people always complain about 450's being bad woods bikes? (i've never ridden a 450 and i ride a 250 2t.)

Is it because they are so heavy? Are they just that much to throw around in the woods? Is it because the guys that complain about them are just not that big of guys and its a little tougher for them to throw one around? Just wondering because I'm interested in buying one in the future.

I'm roughly 205 pounds so i don't think a 250f would move me around quite as well as a 450 would.

  • briangriff321

Posted February 19, 2012 - 10:10 AM

#2

No complaints out of mine...i got a 12 yz450 i won a race the first time i raced or even rode it in the woods...most people complain cause they are heavy but i didnt notice it being any heavier then my old 2 stroke but the yz it designed to feel lighter even though it really isnt

  • grayracer513

Posted February 19, 2012 - 10:48 AM

#3

The 3 biggest problem areas with MX 450's in the woods are:
  • Gearing. MX bikes have close ratio gearboxes with a high first that makes chugging along at low speeds or working around tight spots difficult.
  • High-strung engines. Aggressive can timing and light flywheels designed to help the engine accelerate like a beam of light make them relatively cantankerous and uncooperative at low RPM.
  • Stiff suspension. MX bikes are set up to be stable at speed and the suspension doesn't come into its own until you're going 20 mph or better. Most of them tend not to be compliant enough at low speeds and will deflect and skip around over rocks and roots and such.


  • Monk

Posted February 19, 2012 - 10:55 AM

#4

The 3 biggest problem areas with MX 450's in the woods are:

  • Gearing. MX bikes have close ratio gearboxes with a high first that makes chugging along at low speeds or working around tight spots difficult.
  • High-strung engines. Aggressive can timing and light flywheels designed to help the engine accelerate like a beam of light make them relatively cantankerous and uncooperative at low RPM.
  • Stiff suspension. MX bikes are set up to be stable at speed and the suspension doesn't come into its own until you're going 20 mph or better. Most of them tend not to be compliant enough at low speeds and will deflect and skip around over rocks and roots and such.


Agree.....and their heavy!

  • highmarker

Posted February 19, 2012 - 10:57 AM

#5

adding to grays list; they cough out easier and take too much energy to restart, overheat easily, and have too much power 90% of the time.

will qualify that the definition of "woods" is hugely different around this forum.

  • Bearman108

Posted February 19, 2012 - 03:03 PM

#6

Of course, well, i guess where i ride 60% of the time it is a lot of fast trails more than tight woods i guess. The other amount of time i ride it is a mix of pea gravel pits and woods (some tight, some open). I would've figured that the 450 would be better for woods than a 250 2t just because you can chug it a long better because to get decent power out of the 250 you have to be on the pipe a lot. So would say a wr450 being slightly heavier than the yz450 be better for woods since it has a wider gear ratio?

  • highmarker

Posted February 19, 2012 - 08:52 PM

#7

300 twostroke is the "450" of choice around here

  • bryawn

Posted February 21, 2012 - 04:51 PM

#8

A guy I ride with in the woods from time to time recently picked up a Husky CR125. He had been riding a 2007 or so CRF450R. He's a significantly faster and better rider on the 1-2-5, and he's a big dude.

I have a YZ450F and YZ250 two-stroke, and the 250 is much more fun and nimble in the woods. And at the end of the day I'm not all tired from hefting the big, heavy 4-T over logs and roots. On technical climbs, the 450 has stalling problems too, but that could be helped with a FWW or a Rekluse. Of course, on faster trails or on open GP courses, the 450 is a blast.

  • cowboyona426

Posted February 22, 2012 - 08:01 AM

#9

I like my 450 in the woods, but the area where I live now a 450 is a bit much for the local trails... they are pretty tight and technical in spots and the big blue pig never leaves 1st gear.
However that said, I have ridden a 250 2t and 4t in the woods too (though it's been many years and only short rides on each) and neither one impressed me much. I love that I can chug along on my 450, then wick it open when I want and have gobs of power on tap. But... when I rode the 250's they were both in more open terrain and I can definitely see where a 250 4t could be an advantage in this area for me.
I wouldn't say a 450 is bad in the woods, it all depends on the terrain, the rider, and his/her riding style.

  • Bearman108

Posted February 22, 2012 - 09:24 AM

#10

Alright, i just looked up the wet weights of both yamaha's yz250 2t and the yz450. The yz250 2t comes in at 227 lbs. and the yz450 comes in at 245 lbs. Now can 18 lbs. really make a huge difference out on the trails? Maybe it does (remember i've never ridden a 450 before) but i just have a hard time thinking 18 lbs. will make a monstrous difference. I understand how the gear ratio can be a bit tricky and that could make it difficult to ride in tight spots but the weight doesn't seem like it would be a huge deal. Not trying to argue with you guys just trying to get an understanding here.

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  • crazy_dave

Posted February 22, 2012 - 09:46 AM

#11

300 twostroke is the "450" of choice around here

[color=#000000]That’s the winner![/color]
[color=#000000]My buddy cranks on his 450mx bike on the track. [/color]
[color=#000000]Put him in the wood and he looks like he’s never been on a bike before.[/color]

Edited by crazy_dave, February 22, 2012 - 09:47 AM.


  • grayracer513

Posted February 22, 2012 - 09:48 AM

#12

Eighteen pounds gross weight of the bike one way of other doesn't make that much difference. How the weight of the bike is distributed in/on the chassis can be huge, however. The YZ450 since '06 has been a bike that belies its weight to a great degree, and seems far lighter than it is when you're moving on it, and the faster you go, the more this is the case. But that means it's less true as you go slower, too, and there's no getting around the fact that the 450 carries its weight higher on the bike than a two-stroke will. That, you can feel.

  • Dirk D

Posted February 22, 2012 - 10:52 AM

#13

Well the yz450f is cetainly lighter than say the equivalent wr450f woods bike, so it does have a plus point :bonk:

  • stlyamadude

Posted February 22, 2012 - 06:17 PM

#14

i used to ride a yz250 and got out of riding for awhile..5 years...i have a 450 now...i dont think i would go back...traction,traction,traction!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! i could never lug my 2 stroke round like my 450...NEVER!! yes every once n while i miss it...like when im kicking the sh!t out it to start n it wont...lol.....450 has way more power and it puts it to the ground!!!!! i believe a guy can never have TO much power...just my opinion....

  • Monk

Posted February 22, 2012 - 09:54 PM

#15

Alright, i just looked up the wet weights of both yamaha's yz250 2t and the yz450. The yz250 2t comes in at 227 lbs. and the yz450 comes in at 245 lbs. Now can 18 lbs. really make a huge difference out on the trails? Maybe it does (remember i've never ridden a 450 before) but i just have a hard time thinking 18 lbs. will make a monstrous difference. I understand how the gear ratio can be a bit tricky and that could make it difficult to ride in tight spots but the weight doesn't seem like it would be a huge deal. Not trying to argue with you guys just trying to get an understanding here.


Just another example.....

Compare the weight of a 2011 250sx which comes in around 208lbs to a YZF. There is a 37lb difference, thats huge! At approx a 15% weight savings over the YZF and to ride a 2-3hr race, you start to notice a major difference in your energy levels. Picking up a 37lb weight once or twice is nothing, but picking it up over 6,7,8,9,10 times, you start to look at things a little different.

  • Bearman108

Posted February 24, 2012 - 09:58 AM

#16

Thats kind of what i was thinking, I mean proportionately speaking a two stroke does have more power than that of an equivalent sized 4-stroke, but the 4 stroke will put the power to the ground better. At least that was one of the reason's i thought the 450 would be better for the woods. But like i said, never ridden on a 450 before. My buddy has a '95 xr250 that he's put a 1000 miles of woods riding on this past summer, and he absolutely loves it. The weight of his bike is roughly 275#'s so my thinking was if he could lug that big old thing around the woods and love it a 450 could do the same lol.

  • jason white

Posted February 24, 2012 - 10:11 AM

#17

A 450 is not the worst thing in the woods. It depends on how tight the woods are you are riding. But you want to change the gearing and possibly get a auto clutch. And also it will depend on your riding style.

  • Gunner354

Posted February 25, 2012 - 10:12 AM

#18

Thats kind of what i was thinking, I mean proportionately speaking a two stroke does have more power than that of an equivalent sized 4-stroke, but the 4 stroke will put the power to the ground better. At least that was one of the reason's i thought the 450 would be better for the woods. But like i said, never ridden on a 450 before. My buddy has a '95 xr250 that he's put a 1000 miles of woods riding on this past summer, and he absolutely loves it. The weight of his bike is roughly 275#'s so my thinking was if he could lug that big old thing around the woods and love it a 450 could do the same lol.


09 yz450 is the best woods bike I have ridden to date. Of course it depends on riding ability and style.

Edited by Gunner354, February 25, 2012 - 10:13 AM.


  • Bearman108

Posted February 25, 2012 - 11:50 AM

#19

09 yz450 is the best woods bike I have ridden to date. Of course it depends on riding ability and style.


Now what kind of mods do you have done to it? rekluse? gearing? anything of that nature?

  • Gunner354

Posted February 25, 2012 - 12:50 PM

#20

Now what kind of mods do you have done to it? rekluse? gearing? anything of that nature?


I have a Dr.D pipe, Rekluse Pro, o-ring chain, 06 cdi and a Michelin ms3 front.
With these mods gearing does not need changing. A flywheel is not needed with a Rekluse.

Edited by Gunner354, February 25, 2012 - 12:51 PM.






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