07 yz250f, should i disconnect the neutral switch? or no need to, did you?


22 replies to this topic
  • roostierooster855

Posted February 16, 2012 - 12:34 PM

#1

just as stated above, is there any benefit

  • 762SPR

Posted February 16, 2012 - 12:41 PM

#2

I actually came here to ask the exact same thing.

I have heard that its some kind of timing altering rev limiter thing for when the bike is in neutral, but I can't seem to find out exactly what's happening. I think the general consensus is that it is fine to remove as long as you don't pin the throttle in neutral (why would you?). You can get cover plates, or just cut off the wire.

The reason I was wondering is because I was thinking it might be cool to have a switch with 6 contacts instead of just one, combined with a battery and some LEDs to have a gear indicator. I don't know if it would be worth the effort of making it, but it might be cool and different :smirk:

  • roostierooster855

Posted February 16, 2012 - 02:49 PM

#3

yeah i dont know, i mean the benifits sound good to removing it, seems like it will run better, but what if you do gun it in neutral and hit the 13,500rpm, will it be ok ?

  • roostierooster855

Posted February 16, 2012 - 03:37 PM

#4

yeah there is no new information on this, or for a 07, i wonder if any one does it still?

  • Swede73

Posted February 16, 2012 - 04:46 PM

#5

I haven't done it myself. If you contact nokickstandsallowed he has done it and can explain it in very lengthy detail (very very lengthy).

Here's a link that explains it a lot better if you haven't seen it before. It is written for the older models but everybody says it applies equally to the modern bikes as well.

http://www.thumperfa...m/blue_wire.htm

  • roostierooster855

Posted February 16, 2012 - 05:36 PM

#6

how do i contact him< just put his name in the search bar. Did not work, and yes ive read that article and it seems like a good idea but what why does yami even put it on in the first place? If you gun it in neutral w/o the switch and it hits the 13.500 rpm it should not blow im assuming, maybe if you hold it there like some people would do. I heard its for sound checks but that really does not make sense to me, it has to be there for more than that. Safety feuture idk but seems kind of pointless, i wonder if you would get better throttle response. And is it really true you can tune your fuel screw better, makes sense but i think im gonna have to try it. You never tried it or had a friend do it?

  • Swede73

Posted February 16, 2012 - 06:28 PM

#7

http://www.thumperta...kstandsallowed/

Here's a link to NKSA's page then click on "send message".

I have not done the mod nor do I have any friends that have. The only guys I know have done it are guys here on TT. The only reason I know of why Yami did the switch is to prevent people from screaming the engine with no load on it. It's a pretty common mod and there are a few companies that sell block off plates. Wish I could have been more help

  • nokickstandsallowed

Posted February 16, 2012 - 07:03 PM

#8

http://www.thumperta...kstandsallowed/

Here's a link to NKSA's page then click on "send message".

I have not done the mod nor do I have any friends that have. The only guys I know have done it are guys here on TT. The only reason I know of why Yami did the switch is to prevent people from screaming the engine with no load on it. It's a pretty common mod and there are a few companies that sell block off plates. Wish I could have been more help


NKSA reporting in and replied to the OP's PM. :smirk:

I noticed immediately when I removed it, that it started a little easier and it reacted differently under engine braking. It seemed less likely to stall out in tight corners. It seemed to need a little less clutch in the tight corners, of course that could all be in my imagination - I don't know, I liked the results.

[color=#0000ff]EDIT: I JUST SAW THIS:[/color]

I haven't done it myself. If you contact nokickstandsallowed he has done it and can explain it in very lengthy detail (very very lengthy).


How is this for lengthy?................................................................................................................. :bonk:

Edited by nokickstandsallowed, February 16, 2012 - 07:29 PM.


  • 762SPR

Posted February 16, 2012 - 10:12 PM

#9

Wait, I thought it only affected the CDI when it was in neutral?

I think mine must have been broken anyway... I was doing some in shop testing (obviously in neutral) for our RPM pickup wire, and I could get it up to around 13k, and no, my motor didn't blow... I'm still considering the indicator lights, I just need to convince myself it would be worth the effort. It's pretty easy to know what gear you're in as it is.

  • nokickstandsallowed

Posted February 16, 2012 - 11:57 PM

#10

Wait, I thought it only affected the CDI when it was in neutral?


Yes, I believe that is what they call the switch "Grounding Out" whilst in neutral.
The bike, when the modification is done, defaults to believing that it is always in gear. This would have a tendency to affect idle, which ironically when this modification is done, the first complaint is usually an erratic or hanging idle issue.

Since I don't ride in a gear called idle, I don't worry about it too much :smirk:

What I was getting at, is sometimes when your entering a corner so sharp, that by the time you turn it, you are almost facing 180 degrees the other way, the idle change that results from the modification seems to help prevent engine stall outs when you fall below a certain RPM range or there is no load on the motor either from engine braking or throttle application when the clutch is fully engaged and your just getting ready to wail out of the corner.

Edited by nokickstandsallowed, February 17, 2012 - 12:54 AM.


  • 762SPR

Posted February 17, 2012 - 12:57 AM

#11

Right, but you aren't riding in neutral, and if the CDI is only affected in neutral, then going around a corner, idle or not shouldn't be affected right?

  • nokickstandsallowed

Posted February 17, 2012 - 01:10 AM

#12

Right, but you aren't riding in neutral, and if the CDI is only affected in neutral, then going around a corner, idle or not shouldn't be affected right?


Right then; nor am I riding in idle, but the low RPM's in very tight corners may mimic low enough idle RPM's to have a result on the circumstances - - this is getting more confusing by the minute :smirk:

I believe there is something called the (ECU) Engine Control Unit and I think I read something somewhere about 2500~7000 RPM's being a factor whereas we know that idle rests somewhere between 1900~2100 RPM's.
I know what you are getting at; but, if the CDI were only affected in neutral, then why does the ECU exist - that may only be on the 2004 and earlier models though, I'm not entirely positive.
The plug still has to fire in sequence and we have what is known as wasted spark on four strokes as it is, and I don't think it matters what year the bike is in that case.

The CDI makes a change when neutral is detected; but to surmise that it is only affected by neutral; then why does it default to assuming that it is always in gear when the modification is done? Something has to automatically tell the CDI: "Hey I'm in gear" - and unfortunately the removal or modification of the very piece in question is the only thing that can tell it differently - I think that's what your getting at.
I just know that the bike defaults to thinking that it is in gear when the sensor is missing.

Edited by nokickstandsallowed, February 17, 2012 - 02:18 AM.


  • 762SPR

Posted February 17, 2012 - 10:55 AM

#13

CDI, ECU, whatever you want to call the little electric thingie ma boxie that makes the spark go spark at the right time. :smirk: Don't blame me, I'm not that bright...


My point is, if the purpose of the switch is to short when it is in neutral to alter the ignition system to lower the max RPM and change the spark curve, then why would it effect the response when you're cornering if it is removed? If the ignition is default in the "in gear" mode, and the switch being removed is the same as telling it that it is always in gear, then removing it should have absolutely no difference when you are going around a corner or doing anything else in gear.

  • roostierooster855

Posted February 17, 2012 - 11:59 AM

#14

well i dont want my bike having a weird idle in neutral though......

  • roostierooster855

Posted February 17, 2012 - 12:01 PM

#15

and the effects should only be when the bike is in neutral with the switch unplugged because if your in gear then it basically disconnects the switch right?

  • 762SPR

Posted February 17, 2012 - 02:01 PM

#16

that's my understanding...

  • nokickstandsallowed

Posted February 17, 2012 - 05:31 PM

#17

My point is, if the purpose of the switch is to short when it is in neutral to alter the ignition system to lower the max RPM and change the spark curve, then why would it effect the response when you're cornering if it is removed? If the ignition is default in the "in gear" mode, and the switch being removed is the same as telling it that it is always in gear, then removing it should have absolutely no difference when you are going around a corner or doing anything else in gear.


I further investigated it, and as I have mentioned before, the ECU (some kind of micro-processor) in the little gadget sensor just outside of the flywheel, is then one of the things communicating with the CDI along with the TPS - If you have that plugged in even - :lol: . When this processor is the only thing communicating with the CDI, for timing advances or retards in sparking ignition sequences in relation to crank revolutions, the 2500~7000 Rpm range comes into play somehow. I'm not saying the neutral switch mod is entirely responsible for what I was experiencing just outside of 2100 Rpm's.
I did state that it starts easier and the rest was probably in my imagination; (post #8) but, according to what I read about the ECU picking up the extra slack of a modification done to the neutral switch, you may see where I am coming from more clearly if you tried the mod yourself.

Some days I ride with the mod and some times I don't. For me, it is as simple as just removing the brass piece and spring that "grounds out" the sensor and putting the sensor part back on. No unplugging, no cutting of a wire or buying a filler plug. Tilt the bike slightly to the right and just remove the brass piece and spring and ride. I think having the wire still hooked up to the sensor and oil splashes on the contact part on the sensor, may cause an extra situation in my case. I don't know :bonk: - it's possible, but highly unlikely.

Edited by nokickstandsallowed, February 17, 2012 - 06:15 PM.


  • roostierooster855

Posted February 17, 2012 - 08:15 PM

#18

very interesting and if i get bored enough i will try it, but he way i look at it is it is there for a reason so just what ever lol, very interesting though, im probably going to try it sometime

  • nokickstandsallowed

Posted February 17, 2012 - 11:33 PM

#19

very interesting and if i get bored enough i will try it, but he way i look at it is it is there for a reason so just what ever lol, very interesting though, im probably going to try it sometime


Yeah, it is kind of funny that you mentioned bored being the reason that you would try it. I had just finished an entire rebuild on my entire motor, and there was a guy I was helping along in his rebuild. Well, as it turns out, he had lost the spring that pushes the brass piece flush against the sensor and was asking if he could run the bike with just the brass piece inserted in the cavity.
I told him that I would try it for him and get back to him on what happened. I also told him that the brass piece being in the cavity was probably a good idea since he had lost the spring; at least he would know where to find the brass piece when he got the spring - :bonk: .

He said thanks for trying it, and was worried the bike wouldn't start because of the brass piece sliding back and forth in the cavity. This wasn't the case, and I told him jokingly, that I could hear the brass piece sliding back and forth in there while I was riding my bike and trying it out for him to see what it would do. That's when I got the idea to just take it out and see if it reacted the same as doing the sky blue wire modification I had read about so often for the neutral switch. Low and behold the bike only needed a 1/4 of a kick to start which is about where my kick starter shaft is from the peg when I feel it reach the right point in the stroke to push it through to fire it up since everything is fairly new in my build. Normally, without the mod, it would take about two 1/4 kicks to fire up. My bike has always started easily, and to this day, I have never needed the hot start either. Most people try to start their bikes with the kick starter shaft in the "all the way up position" whereas, if you learn to feel out where the piston is and catch it just right when the kicker is about half way down and kick it soft but firmly from that position - it will crank right up if everything is shimmed properly and timing is spot on.

[color=#0000ff]P.S.[/color]
Just make sure that you reinsert the pieces back in the correct hole - if you put the spring and the brass piece back in the center hole, you will be sorry. They will keep going into the motor until they fall in I think. Just look at the gold alignment dot on the sensor itself, the orientation of the dot on the sensor will lead you in the right direction as far as putting them back in the correct hole. I remember reading something about some guy putting them in the wrong hole and he had to split the cases to get them out. He was more ticked off than a gorilla on the midnight oil.

Edited by nokickstandsallowed, February 17, 2012 - 11:41 PM.


  • 762SPR

Posted February 18, 2012 - 01:45 AM

#20

The ECU is on the flywheel sensor board??? :bonk: What will those japs think of next?

I'll have to test and see if my switch is working. I don't think it is. I may just cap the hole if it isn't... Or I could do the indicator if I'm bored I guess. Come to think of it, a neutral indicator light alone might be a little handy.




 
x

Join Our Community!

Even if you don't want to post, registered members get access to tools that make finding & following the good stuff easier.

If you enjoyed reading about "" here in the ThumperTalk archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join ThumperTalk today!

The views and opinions expressed on this page are strictly those of the author, and have not been reviewed or approved by ThumperTalk.