Figured I would tap into the collective wisdom here.

I have an '02 GG 280 TXT Pro. I'm a beginner to trials riding....rode last summer, but didn't do any formal competitions, though hopefully that will change this year.

I was wondering what the benefit (if any) would be of installing an S3 flywheel weight on my bike.

Pros/Cons of doing so for this bike and a rider of my ability, or more accurately, lack of ability?

Thanks!

The 02 pro is a beast - correctly named the PRO.

Novices who want to compete would do well to install a FWW, 10t CSS, and slow throttle as a start. Maybe add a head spacer too! I also highly recommend changing to the lighter clutch spring (06 and beyond) as well.

There are a couple threads on here (do a search) about installation of a FWW.

Good luck and enjoy

laser17, on 29 January 2012 - 03:32 PM, said:

Thanks laser17....always value your advice.

I have a S3 FWW kit sitting on my workbench...was just wondering if it was worth installing is all. I'll definitely go ahead with the task, and was planning to put a 10t on the front as well. I have a slow throttle tube, but may hold off on putting that on till I see how the bike react with the other changes first.

I fully expect to enter some novice trials this season.

andrzej, on 30 January 2012 - 07:37 AM, said:

I think you'll really like the FWW. Not only will it smooth out the power but it will give more "follow through" glide when you shut the throttle with less tendency to die on the compression stroke when you are not fast enough on the throttle at the very low end of the RPM band.

2PLY, on 30 January 2012 - 11:14 AM, said:

I question the smaller counter shaft sprocket change. Though it gears the bike down for a slower first gear ride, it increases the "twitchiness" of your throttle input... as in almost eliminating the affect of adding a slow throttle tube.

As you get better, you'll find you rarely use first gear anyway. If you leave the gearing stock but still need first gear, to go slower you slip the clutch a little. Along with the FWW, it is a smoother way to go. Leaving the clutch fully home with a very low gear and very slow RPM will be jerky as the bikes don't idle smoothly.. Slipping the clutch to go very slow helps smooth things out and helps to prevent stalling the motor. When you get used to slipping the clutch for the really slow stuff, you'll find that stepping the idle speed up a little will give you a little more insurance that you will not stall the bike when you engage the clutch a little for fine adjustments to your slowest speeds.

How dare 2ply question the 10T - the injustice of it all...

GG's are geared pretty tall. Most experts use the stock gearing and slip the clutch like 2ply mentions, Just about every novice my dad ever sold a GG pro to prefered a 10T/42 or 10/43. FWIW; My seat of the pants calibration tells me that the GG with a 10T/42 is equivalent to a stock Beta. I know I prefer it - as its easier to go slower and pick your way along off cambers ect... I get going too fast with the 11T. My own "flywheel" weight around my stomach prevents making anything short of Reeds factory Honda 450 nice and smooth.

laser17, on 30 January 2012 - 02:18 PM, said:

You guys are such a hoot! I don't yet have a 10t on my bench....so that will come a bit later.

laser17, on 30 January 2012 - 02:18 PM, said:

Sprockets are cheap and easy to swap, so I'll try out a 10t and see which I prefer. Not a big deal there...not like a FWW that costs a lot more and is way more work to install/remove.

laser17, on 30 January 2012 - 02:18 PM, said:

I resemble that remark, though I'm working on reducing that particular "weight" on my bike/bod.

Speaking of which, now that I've plowed the snow, I need to go to the garagemahal and do a workout. Wanna be in good shape for the start of the 2012 riding season in the Spring!

I forgot about the EXTRA flash around the middle advantage... yeah, I have that advantage too. But If you already have the FWW, you really should try it out. It makes a major difference in the slower speeds with a smoother idle and easier to keep the engine alive at the very bottom RPMs. You'll be able to go slower with less tendency to kill the motor.

Pay no attention to Laser's post... I think that was his Son or Daughter messing around with his computer.. Or maybe his WIFE??

Changing the CS sprocket to a 10T is like adding a Granny gear to your car... the lower the gearing, the more touchy the engine response at the rear wheel. You will most likely need to take a link out of your chain too. We had to do that to my wife's 200 Pro which meant that chain became a dedicated 10T CSS chain

2PLY, on 01 February 2012 - 07:23 AM, said:

Seems that it's a common "advantage".

2PLY, on 01 February 2012 - 07:23 AM, said:

I may take a run at installing the FWW this weekend, depending on what else I have going on.

2PLY, on 01 February 2012 - 07:23 AM, said:

You guys slay me!

2PLY, on 01 February 2012 - 07:23 AM, said:

I would have thought that lower gearing would mean that you would have to blip the throttle even more for an equivalent effect on the rear wheel, though you would get more torque with the lower gearing. Never thought of the chain length...that would be a pain, depending on how much adjustment I have left in the rear axle snails. Have to check that out.

Lot of folks with Pro's seem to like the 10/42 or 10/43 gearing, over the stock 11T front.

I think I'm just going to have to experiment a bit and see what I like best, since there doesn't seem to be a consensus here.

Paying no attention to me is probably the best advice 2ply ever gave anyone....

laser17, on 01 February 2012 - 02:28 PM, said:

I was just kidding.... I'll bet you didn't know that I save all of your posts.. you saw an example of that recently remember? The person you should NOT take seriously was Fester.. He was our resident Troll under the bridge.. He was really hard on newbies or people with certain repetitive questions ... Entertaining as Hell though.. I sure miss that old lunk!!

Its all good buddy - I miss Festers "NON-PC" remarks. Last i knew he was supporting his sons MX efforts. Go TEAM FESTER!

andrzej, on 29 January 2012 - 10:33 AM, said:

I think, since you dont compete, you have NO reason to modify the bike... Now I have reread that statement 20 times and tried to put it a different way, but cant think of how to do it... so pardon the politically incorrect forcefullness. you could have your own reasons, all the way up to and including "I just love pissing money down the drain" lol.

When you get to a point, say competing, and you need some edge, or performance out of your bike, instead of your mind and body (my meaning there is, when you ride well enough you can blame a slight disadvantage the flywheel weight not being there give you" you will probably be on a newer bike to begin with...

Just sayin.

Plus there have been a dozen changes it seems, to the pro's electrical system, I cannot tell you positively that they have a weight for an 02? But they probably do.

that 02 will be (unless bike has not been ridden for the last 10 years, or bored and new piston and all that) probably down on snappyness and "gotcha" power and torque, which make it a great learners bike. Older bikes are forgiving, even if we only go by wear, but every year the bikes have been produced, IMHO, they keep "hopping" them up, aka they got hotter more agressive each year, at least a tiny bit...

Now that I said that above, I think you will learn a lot on that bike. for starters you could swap the thottle grip tube, if the one you have is a white one, black tubes are "slow", and KNOW, this is slight, but the tubes have a slight egg shape to where the cable wraps around them, so when you twist the grip, the cable can move less far for (not sure but probably 45? degrees of movement.) But I will tell you, you would be better off getting your mind and hand to "get used to it" instead of what I call, handicapping yourself... But results with my beginner friends are a mixed bag, probabbly better to use slow throttle to begin with, the swap when you graduate novice...

Here's waht I think, that same tube swapping thing that makes the throttle cable move less when you twist the grip, also moves your wrist FURTHER when you have to give as much gas to get the "action" that guy next to you did when he made that obstacle, and that bothered the hell out of me, as when I need a blip, I dont want to have to "sit down" so I can move my wrist far enough to get that amount of throttle (the carb's slide movement). Of course that was an exxageration so you could picture what I said is happening, but it is slighter than that, but noticable to me very much... Beginners like it though, and gives them some confidence, so that is why I say do it, as you begin undo it as you get tobe a better trials rider...

Dropping the front sprocket isnt as bad for people riding at a capability that is below AMATURE class. but like 2ply said, you will find that the bike is twitchier, and reacts a lot different with the smaller front sproket... to me I watch my dad spin wheels everytime he tried what I do with my 11 tooth. Because of that, I ride in second gear most of the time now as well, less wheel spin is usually a good thing.

TO me, in a perfect training (not reality) you whould learn to ride in 2nd from time to time just to make you learn to ride the clutch... I say, keep the bigger front sprocket. and this would force you to learn quicker, how to mudulate the CLUTCH, that is how you "adjust" your speed. That is not reality though, you have too many things to master all at once, keeping your nees bent, turning, body position, where to be looking as you ride a section, all that ....

But when I ride, hardly ever is the clutch ever FULLY enguaged (or out as far as it can), if we were talking percent of a section, it is probably less than 10%, of the total distance traveled in a section, except of course big hill climbs or maybe mud...

THe clutch method though, is hard for people to grasp, so we/they try to re-gear the bike to be able to go slow enough they are comfortable. I drag the rear brake and pull the clutch, making my left had operate the clutch like a automatic transmission, in your car, the torque converter, that I control with my mind, instead of some attempt to tune it mechanically (drag racing clutch techs do that, trying to make the clutch slip or enguage depending on circumstances like engine rpm, I do it in my head)...

sting32, on 03 February 2012 - 06:59 AM, said:

Thanks for all the good info and advice, sting32....always appreciate good responses.

I do plan to try my hand at competing this coming summer, and regardless of that, I like working on my bikes and personalizing them to my needs and desires. I get almost as much enjoyment out of wrenching on them as I do from riding them....almost! My YZ250 has had a lot of mods, all of which have helped make the bike better for the way I ride. The GG 280 Pro, though it's an '02, hasn't had much hard use AFAIK, and that year was known to be pretty twitchy and sensitive. From what I've heard, the newer bikes were more mellow than the '02...and that is what I've found from riding a couple of '07 GG 300 Pros in the past few months.

Then there is the infamous "placebo effect". Sometimes, wrenching on your bike and changing things up helps you to ride better, even though it's all phychologically based and in your mind. You put on new graphics and the shiney new look inspires you to ride harder and better. Funny how that works sometimes.

Besides, we're in the dead of winter up here, and my driveway is one long sheet of ice. Snow I don't mind, but riding on ice just breaks too many things and is not much fun, at least not without studded tires. So wrenching on the bikes helps to keep me from going stir crazy when I can't ride.

Anyway....I already have a FFW on my bench which I picked up at the Trials Training Centre just before Christmas, and also have a black throttle tube. So I might as well experiment and see how they change the response and performance of the bike. Easy to remove if I don't like it or feel it's more of a hindrance than a help.

When I bought my old Honda TL 250 way back in the Fall of 74, I had no wish to compete.. I just loved riding and exploring primitive trails in the local mountains. Hill climbs and logs were my favorite.

I met another guy riding a Yamaha TY 250 and we went on some mountain rides together. About 4 months later he invited me to come with him to a Trials Event near our home. I resisted but then I figured he was good enough to come on my adventures that maybe I would try at least just one event.

Short story, I had so much fun that I rode every Trials Event I could find for the next 8 years. And along with the fun, came the learning. Watching others do the impossible and noting that they were human, rode the same bike as me, then it should be possible for me too. And in those days, Trials Schools just did not exist. Most of us just bashed our way through slowly learning the hard way but never learning the fine points.

Then videos starting coming out in the mid 80's explaining the fine points that I missed. From then on it was a matter of unlearning the bad habits. Then I learned how to float with the bike and not hang on. My blisters became a thing of the past as well asl the cramps in the arms and legs and the bike stopped bouncing around..

Now days, some of the best riders have taken to teaching at local clubs and the club members are good at passing along the tips.. You will learn MUCH faster going to one year ot these competition event than you will in a lifetime of trying to figure it out on your own. You will also meet all of the people anywhere near you that also ride Trials Bikes and end up with a good list of friends to ride and learn with.

2PLY, on 04 February 2012 - 10:29 PM, said:

Yup....I've already started doing some riding (as winter weather allows) with some very experienced competitors, and plan to continue that. The advice has already helped my riding. I'm sure I'll try some trials comps this summer....but scheduling can be a bit tricky, since I want to do some XC/Harescrambles (definitely my club race and a few other close ones), and also am "pit crew" for my nephew's MX endeavours. That will preclude me from doing every trial that might be available out there.

But I definitely will do a few!

Finally got the new fender (replacing the frankensteined one that was on the bike when I bought it last year) on, and while I was at that, I also cleaned and resealed the airbox, plus fixed a few small issues there (broken screw posts).

Then I installed the S3 flywheel weight. Installing the actual weight was a piece of cake. The puller worked perfectly, and the FWW aligned perfectly on the flywheel. I'm not sure what Laser was talking about in using a dial caliper to true up the FWW, since the way it installs there was no slop or give in the FWW mounting, and there basically would be no way to adjust things, so it's good it went on nice and even. The threaded inserts that go in the back of the FW were nice and tight....no room to shift those around, and the screws that attach the S3 FWW have tapered heads, that match chamfered holes in the weight, so they self align and once tight, there is no way to shift the FWW at all. Oh well...less trouble is good, IMO.

The biggest issue was getting the shifter back on. Initially, it wouldn't seat as deep on the splined shaft, and was binding on the chain, due to the FWW spacer that pushes the cover out at least another 1/4" further. Some delicate bending of the shifter shaft in my vice (with a bit of selective heat), some shaving of the cover, and then a bit of grinding where the shifter came close to the cover and back near the chain and all is now well.

Supposed to be 12C tomorrow and sunny.....so most of the remaining snow should melt fast, and so I'll definitely be taking it out for a buzz on my property. First time on the bike in about 6 weeks, so I'm looking forward to it. Also have the whole back end off my YZ250...replacing the swingarm and linkage bearings, so you know what I'll be doing tomorrow afternoon, when not putting about on the GasGas!

Looks like our riding season will start earlier than usual this year. Yay!

Let us know if you can tell the difference.

If you didn't measure it with a dial indicator, then you wont know how close or off it really is. The tolerances on any of those holes, screws and chamfers is not even close to zero, but maybe you got a perfectly machined set of everything. I sure didnt! Flywheels are balanced after machining for the same reason.