is kevin arranging seminars?

Just my 2 cents would be to make sure you have a long term passion for this kind of career because it is a constant study and could be ungratifying for long periods of time. I've been odsessed with this forum for years and yet i don't feel confident enough to open up a shop.

I found the existence of the Andreani group courses which are run in italy and offer different packages also for tools and equipment to run your service center.....vac pumps etc

it suits my better in the matter of logistics since is 2-3 hours flight and same time zone in respect with california

does anyone know anything about there product!!
courses, service etc

I went to the race tech seminar, pm me if you have any questions.

wblake, on 10 April 2012 - 10:32 AM, said:

You'll have to call him, and ask what he is offering.

how about the Andreani group anyone knows anything about them? they are suppose to be world class and they are down the road comparing Racetech which is 17 hours flight time only and 4 digit plane tickets

Well,i done the schooling with Kevin and it was worth it..He was a really cool guy and freakishly smart.. I still dont feel confident enough to open a shop,BUT;ya have to start somewhere..Im well on my way though,just gotta keep learning..

lit549, on 05 August 2012 - 10:05 AM, said:

don't eypect to service suspension on a professional basis after joining a seminar. That would be too easy

lit549, on 05 August 2012 - 10:05 AM, said:

First thing, imho, is understanding the basics, all this, sometimes boring, theory. You have to know about oilflow, viscosities, bore sizes etc esp. if you want to optimize/tune suspension.

Buy some cheap shocks, forks (eg via ebay), disassamble them completely, inspect them, try to find out and understand how they work and how all parts work together.
You even can cut parts apart to see oil chanels etc. Doesn't matter if you ruin some parts, you have bought them cheap and it's not of a customer.

But despite all that, the most important thing, again imho, is pratice, practice and again practice.
After you have serviced some hundred forks/shocks a certain understandig will come by it's own.

frezno, on 07 August 2012 - 03:18 AM, said:

Ah, well said.

i agree with the above, "opening a shop" is a heavy term, espesially if noone knows you or your work and have minimal expirience with the subject!!

just to clarify my thoughts, opening a shop is a way to let people know of a way to contact you for servising their suspension or buy oil from you, it doesnt have to be full

time for the beginning, unless you can get by with less than need!!

It doesnt have to be fancy in the towns motorbike highstreet, it just has to be clean and tidy for someone to trust his suspension with you, and let you do properly your work!!

it can be in your garage, or some low rent work space or shared with someone you can live with in the workshop!! ( even though i done that before and didnt work for

me) e.g you trying to service your forks and the other person wants to grind cut a 2x2 steel sq beam!) by doing your suspension several times and your mates and

riding buddies you built confidence, cutting cost for your mates (labor and freight fares) and you get to learn on the trusted components!! plus you get a feedback if

you suck or not and choose to cont doing it!!

Then you can service for people you dont know and heard of you from someone, when you feel confident and experiment enough you can start tuning as frenzo said it

comes on its own!! fingers crossed!

what i think is a good thing with some form of dealership or affiliation, is the source for lower prices for parts and possibly some backup from someone more

expierienced than you because always something is going to come that you dont know, at least the first years!! Also some off the names meantioned here spent more

money that will ever pass through my hands on testing several components, and share there database with you...so choose wiselly keeps coming back..

Edited by wblake, 08 August 2012 - 11:09 PM.

The sad thing is that other than coming to forums and digging and digging and trying to get info. quick and accurate is next to impossible. The industry guards it fiercely and does not want to share the golden goose. You can call FC etc and want to ask question they basically try and sell you on their stuff or hang up on you. Ross at Enzo has always been good and will to take the time to talk and help point in the right direction. Grant (who is no longer at RG3) was great also. Joe at PC will help some too. But still it is very limited help.

I know I have spent the last 8 yrs teaching myself and seek such people and very few exist.

But being persistent and putting the time in you can teach yourself. You may not have the Bukoo math formulas to go with it or the dyno but you can get to a point that after talking to the rider and learning what questions to ask and watching them ride and studying other stacks you can learn how to start a good baseline stack for that rider and work from there.

At one time I had over 8 sets of suspension that I would haul to the track and test different setups that varied from the starting baseline stack, different spring rates, Nitro volumes etc. Writing down everything that I could in detail. After a good solid 1 1/2 yrs everything started to go together and now its like old hat.

If you haven't seen it already go to the Honda CRF450 forum and at the top is my stick on DIY 04 450 Suspension Re-Valve!. I started it in June 2006 and is still going strong with over 450,000 views. Its is basic the start of my journey and evolution to learn everything I can about suspension. I am happy to say that I have met and talked to tons of TT members helping them to learn how to fish. I have never just handed out stacks to those that wanted a quick fix. The ones that did not want to take the time to learn and listen end up sending their suspension out and paying for it and not being totally happy!


theDogger

I would ne surprised if any industry professionals would hove you all the tricks of the trade?  If you do arnt you basically equipping them to put you out of business?

Holy smokes. How do you go from here ? ?

frezno, on 07 August 2012 - 03:18 AM, said:

Well said.  There's nothing like first hand experience and just plain 'taking something apart' and 'practicing' to see what it's all about.
And, after doing that a couple hundred times, you're sure to learn something.
-----

theDogger, on 17 August 2012 - 09:17 AM, said:

OOOOOOkkkk, this is going to be dicey.   To start with, I agree with theDogger.  He's been around awhile and knows what's going on. Finding
accurate suspension information is difficult. You can go to different suspension forums and get what you can, but this info is going to be limited,
and is often based on opinion, not fact.  After all, we're all in the same boat.  The 'secret info' we are trying to get it coming from
others just like ourselves (that's kind of scary).
Stepping it up a notch:  Do we really think Factory Connection is going to spend all their money, energy and recourses to come up with
trick suspensions setups just so they can give them out for nothing?  Not likely.  After all, this is America.  We all want make a decent living,
have enough money to pay our bills, and have some left over to buy things that will stimulate the economy.  Just because we decide to go race a
bunch of 'like minded' fools doesn't mean we qualify for free suspension services.
But don't get me wrong. . . .  Unfortunately, I can see both sides of the equation.

frezno, on 07 August 2012 - 03:18 AM, said:

Putting in the time.  In my humble opinion, that's an understatement.  Think of the effort you've put in. Each and everyone one of us in this forum has
spent some time studying suspension.  Perhaps some have spent the last 6 weeks reading these forums and gaining experience.  Some might say
"6 weeks", that's nothing.  I've spent the last 6 months researching this stuff. And of course, some will say, 6 months, balderdash, we've
spent the last 6 years looking at this stuff.
So the bottom line is, we're all counting on someone with more experience than ourselves to answer our questions. And that experience comes from whatever the source.

I might sugget that ya'll  "don't bash someone who has sophisticated equipment" just because you don't understand it.  That's kind of foolish.

frezno, on 07 August 2012 - 03:18 AM, said:

Excellent.  That's what it's all about.  (I like the term 'old hat')  Fortunately, theDogger has made all his info available.
Everyone should appreciate that.

Edited by kevinstillwell, 18 August 2012 - 02:38 AM.

mog, on 17 August 2012 - 01:38 PM, said:

Well said.

But there has to be a balance where regular guys like us can get decent suspension info without infringing on the big suspension companies 'rights'.

So I suggest suggest that everyone reading this forum invest $250,000 and 5 years of their time, and then getting back to us with their results.

Edited by kevinstillwell, 18 August 2012 - 02:42 AM.

theDogger, on 17 August 2012 - 09:17 AM, said:

a very, very one-sided view of the things and pretty polemic as well.
First of all, name an industrie where the professional players are willing to provide free help and info to make it possible for you to do a DIY job.
But that's not the point.

As with every other job, be it plumber, mechanic, heart surgeon etc. you have to invest time and money to learn. We should you pass all what you've learned for free to someone, who is not willing to invest the time and money you have invested?
Just think about the time you've spent (8 years i guess you've said) to get to that level you are right now. Would you still provide that much info you're doing right now if you would have to make a libving from it? I doubt it. At least you would be way more reluctant with it - at the latest after the tenth telephone call which is taking you off your work bench with questions like: "i don't get this and that apart, how can it be done" or "can you give me a setup for my fork" etc.

Don't get me wrong. I'm all with you in the idea of sharing information (and as can be seen from my posts i am willing to share). But at a certain point you also have to look at your business as well and, as Kevin already said, we all want to make a living from what we are doing.

Regarding the FC slave on the telephone: what do expect from him? a qualified answer on a technical question? C'mon, gimme a break. This guy was hired to sell and not to play Madam Ruth.

I am not trying to make this a one sided view. I agree that some are trying to make a living but what I am talking about is the sheer ARROGANCE that the industry has developed. Growing up I can remember everyone helping and sharing info. with each other at the amateur level. Not guarding it like a ravenous dog over his only bone. There is always going to be the people who are movers and shakers and then those that are to lazy and will send it out and get taken.

I think that it is unfortunate that our sport has become so corporate $$$ driven that people have to guard everything so hard at the amateur level and forgotten what it is all about. About the People! Friends and family and the relationships that can last a life time.

So that is why I am willing to share all the info. that I have gained over the year with suspension, the damn thing about it is that once you start understanding what is going on one answered question always leads to 6 more. Its an endless quest!


theDogger

For most this isnt amature level, its pro level ? Most on here with the most actual knowledge are pros ?

its all good and fair from amature to proffesional level making maney from it or not, everyone runs the business and lives how they think they should!!

it all goes sour when you pay for something and you realise sooner or later you where pulled, or the price tag did not match the work done!! thats when all

the rumble starts...

frezno, on 18 August 2012 - 03:40 AM, said:

wblake, on 18 August 2012 - 03:40 AM, said:

I do not think so! The truth of the matter is that people are getting tired of getting ripped off!

DLC = $800-$1200 Forks
DLC = $100-$175 Shaft
Hard Coat Lugs = $100+

True that coatings are not needed but as an example! I use to go through a company that serviced 2 of the big suspension companies and they I got a call from my contact telling me that they can't help any more because the big companies were complaining!

When the truth of the matter is that DLC can be done for a lot cheaper. $400 forks and $75 shaft and $50 for the lugs. The big suspension companies have run the prices up because they know they can. The bottom line is that setting up stack is not rocket science, you have a baseline that you start with that gets you in the neighborhood and then fine tune from there. It is not like the Suspension companies start from scratch every time!   I understand that there is R&D but majority of the time 60% is already done.

frezno, on 18 August 2012 - 03:40 AM, said:

FC is just that a Factory Production Line! There is no reason that the salesmen should not have a strong knowledge of suspension and the bike. Not just this parts kool lets mark it up!

frezno, on 18 August 2012 - 03:40 AM, said:

I played professional B-Ball for 11yrs and I have spent the last 11yrs teaching kids for FREE! As opposed the hacks that charge and have brained washed people into think that they know what they are doing after watching a few YouTube videos and played high school but never got off the bench...... and think they know what they are doing?!

It all about giving back to something that you love! There is always going to be the people that are lazy and do not want to work and learn and then there are the people that are DIY and want to learn!
Remember that America was founded on Blood,Sweat,Tears and Dreams! Now with our Welfare Nation everyone wants their Dream but on everyone else Blood,Sweat,Tears!


Teach a man to fish and he fishes for a lifetime!

theDogger

Edited by theDogger, 21 August 2012 - 06:52 AM.

LOL! Our president is in Reno now, and the main freeway is closed.