Woods bike - Yz450f 11 - Ktm 450 12 exc - Ktm 300??


24 replies to this topic
  • achudasko

Posted January 05, 2012 - 05:31 AM

#1

Hi,

Just sold my 04 yz450f to upgrade to a new bike. Looking at 11-12 yz450f, 12 ktm 450 xcw or the 2 smoke ktm 300. I loved the aggressive power delivery of the 04 yz450f. It was a challenge on the technical steep hills though due to gearing. However enjoyed the challenge.

Is the 11-12 yz450f a wise choice for woods riding for that's all I do. Riding terrain consists of free flowing trails, steep technical hills, rock, mud, and generally around 80-100 kilometers before I refuel. Day ride total averages around 160 kilometers. (Half way refuel). The 04 yz450 did this with ease....some rides I would just carry an extra 1.5 litre of fuel in pack to get me over the line.

Part of me is thinking should I buy a bike that is specifically designed for the woods? Ktm450 exc or 300. Ktm 450 would be easier on hills and has electric start. But I think I may find power delivery boring?? The 300, well I'm not super keen to go to a 2 smoke. I also did not find the power on my mates 300 as exciting as a yz450f. I'm sure I could adapt to either Ktm but the new Yz450f still has me interested.

Yz450f....a good woods bike or not? One concern is fuel miliage. Or should I be looking at specifically designed woods bike like the ktm's? Thanks for any advice.

Edited by achudasko, January 05, 2012 - 07:21 PM.
Incorrect model specified


  • YamaLink

Posted January 05, 2012 - 05:57 AM

#2

It sounds like you are an aggressive and tough rider. And a 450 four stroke is in order for your needs & wants.

How about a KTM 450SX? Claimed almost 1.98 US gallon capacity, electric start, too: http://www.ktm.com/m...highlights.html
Maybe wait until the Dungey-inspired model comes out: http://www.racerxonl...factory-edition

Edited by YamaLink, January 05, 2012 - 08:56 AM.


  • tech24

Posted January 05, 2012 - 06:11 AM

#3

The yz can make a great woods bike with the proper mods. Can't speak for the others. I love mine in the woods. I don't think youll make 100km on stock fuel tank though.

  • J D R

Posted January 05, 2012 - 03:10 PM

#4

i have a 2010 450sxf that ive been setting up for woods riding and it works really well very smooth power but i think it needs a suspension revalve to make it better . im thinking about a new bike soon ive been really interested in the 11 yz450 or the new wr450 or a 12 450 xcw cant make my mind up but for the price the 11 yz450 is looking good

  • achudasko

Posted January 05, 2012 - 06:14 PM

#5

Thanks guys,

YamLink, I never considered the KTM 450 SX. The extra size in tank would be very handy & the electric start would be priceless when stuck on nasty hills. Thanks for the links, will look further into it.

I just know the YZ450f is bullet proof. Well my 04 was. Just a shame the tank is now smaller on the efi models.

Tech24...what mods you done to yours or what do you recommend? What average mileage you getting out of the tank? Have you gone to a aftermarket tank?

Agree J D R....price comparison of a Yz450f and a KTM 450 xcw (I think that's the same as our exc in Aus) is huge. But maybe after mods it may be close. Mind you I did not modify my 04 yz. It certainly was not perfect for woods but it was bags of fun.

  • achudasko

Posted January 05, 2012 - 07:25 PM

#6

I actually meant KTM 450 XCW in the title. We call it EXC in Australia.

  • tech24

Posted January 06, 2012 - 05:22 AM

#7

Thanks guys,

YamLink, I never considered the KTM 450 SX. The extra size in tank would be very handy & the electric start would be priceless when stuck on nasty hills. Thanks for the links, will look further into it.

I just know the YZ450f is bullet proof. Well my 04 was. Just a shame the tank is now smaller on the efi models.

Tech24...what mods you done to yours or what do you recommend? What average mileage you getting out of the tank? Have you gone to a aftermarket tank?

Agree J D R....price comparison of a Yz450f and a KTM 450 xcw (I think that's the same as our exc in Aus) is huge. But maybe after mods it may be close. Mind you I did not modify my 04 yz. It certainly was not perfect for woods but it was bags of fun.


My biggest problem was stalling. A Gytr flywheel is a must at minimum. I also added a rekluse z-start pro and I'm glad I did. If your good with the clutch you can do without but the rekluse is a must for me. Its in need of a slip on to tame the bark down a bit for woods riding. I put on an FMF q4 mostly to be quiter but it made power very managable. Need a 49/50t rear sprocket. Before slip on I used woods map and it was very good. After slip-on I switched to broad powerband map and it was great. I ride a lot in the cold so I installed a thermostat which helps get fuel mixture and idle more consistent and helped with stalling. However covering the left radiator will achieve similar effects. I also added a g2 throttle cam to change to a slower opening but have since switched back to stock opening.

One mod I would also consider which I have yet to do is the injectioneering throttlebody mod.

As far as suspension I think its great stock. I'm a tad heavy for the springs but it still works great and I'm afraid to change anything. The faster you go the better it gets.

I don't know an exact mileage but I don't think I'd ever make more than 40 miles a tank in the woods. I've been using stock tank as I don't go much farther away than that. If I do I carry MSR fuel cans. Yeah the stock tank has less capacity than the older bikes but its not much and has a similar range.

Basically you can get a way with the right map for you and larger rear sprocket. But slap a rekluse and/or flywheel (i have both) and its unstopable.

  • Navaho6

Posted January 06, 2012 - 08:42 AM

#8

I'm looking at either a yz450 or the new WR450 (stripped down as much as possible) for mixed woods. It will be interesting to see how much weight can be shaved off the WR.

I haven't found any published weights except for the street-legal model in the UK, and it is a pig at 129 kg (284 lbs) wet but is laden with a lot of extra stuff like mirrors, mudflap, turn signals, starter, battery, kickstand, headlight, skid plate.

The YZ is 245 lbs wet. It would gain a little weight in the woods conversion but I'm guessing maybe 5 lbs max for equal comparison to a stripped down WR.

  • woods-rider

Posted January 06, 2012 - 08:53 AM

#9

I had an 04 YZ450 for woods duties. I hated it. Had all the power in the world which was awesome and fun, but that 4 speed box just sucked for anything technical or anything over 45 mph (basically 50+% of what I usually ride). I think you will be happy with any of those choices over your previous ride.

Edited by woods-rider, January 06, 2012 - 10:15 AM.


  • tech24

Posted January 06, 2012 - 10:13 AM

#10

I had an 04 YZ450 for woods duties. I hated it. Hat all the power in the world which was awesome and fun, but that 4 speed box just sucked for anything technical or anything over 45 mph (basically 50+% of what I usually ride). I think you will be happy with any of those choices over your previous ride.


I know I am...night and day difference (had an 04 also)

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  • eflyguy

Posted January 06, 2012 - 10:42 AM

#11

I was wondering if the WR wouldn't be a better starting point?

Don't know, just wondering..
..a

  • woods-rider

Posted January 06, 2012 - 10:51 AM

#12

I ditched my 04 yz450 for an 06 wr450 and have never looked back. It gained weight and lost power (when compared to the yz), but the gearing and suspension are SO much better for woods riding that I am actually faster on the WR (after doing all the free mods) and use less energy even though is is substantially heavier.

  • tech24

Posted January 06, 2012 - 10:57 AM

#13

Maybe I think suspension may be lacking in the WR unless we are talking about the new one coming out

watch this vid. I'm not close to this guys skill level but I agree with what he says



  • woods-rider

Posted January 06, 2012 - 11:04 AM

#14

Maybe I think suspension may be lacking in the WR unless we are talking about the new one coming out

watch this vid. I'm not close to this guys skill level but I agree with what he says


For me, the YZ suspension was WAY too stiff for anything below 40 mph in the woods IMO, and since the 4 speed gear box starts complaining after about 45 mph it basically sucked for me.

Revalved my WR suspension with Smart Performance and I don't get beat to death going over rocks and roots at 15 mph and it can handle 60+ mph desert whoops without much issue. It does just fine with everything else in between also.

I'm sure you can work the YZ suspension to handle slow speed woods better, but the 4 speed gearbox was the killer for me. No financially practical way around it besides getting a different bike.

  • tech24

Posted January 06, 2012 - 11:07 AM

#15

For me, the YZ suspension was WAY too stiff for anything below 40 mph in the woods IMO, and since the 4 speed gear box starts complaining after about 45 mph it basically sucked for me.

Revalved my WR suspension with Smart Performance and I don't get beat to death going over rocks and roots at 15 mph and it can handle 60+ mph desert whoops without much issue. It does just fine with everything else in between also.

I'm sure you can work the YZ suspension to handle slow speed woods better, but the 4 speed gearbox was the killer for me. No financially practical way around it besides getting a different bike.


oh I agree the '04 suspension was terrible in the woods but I'm a big fan of the newer yz suspension stock. But as you stated it can be resprung and revalved either way.

  • bigc

Posted January 06, 2012 - 11:10 AM

#16

I had an 03 yz basically the same yeah the motor was great the suspension sucked and felt like a tank.did a few gncc's on it and decided i just was not in good enough condition to ride it hard for 2hrs.i now have a old rm and even it is better in the woods.imo anything newer as far as a 4-stroke goes will be better!

  • achudasko

Posted January 06, 2012 - 12:45 PM

#17

My biggest problem was stalling. A Gytr flywheel is a must at minimum. I also added a rekluse z-start pro and I'm glad I did. If your good with the clutch you can do without but the rekluse is a must for me. Its in need of a slip on to tame the bark down a bit for woods riding. I put on an FMF q4 mostly to be quiter but it made power very managable. Need a 49/50t rear sprocket. Before slip on I used woods map and it was very good. After slip-on I switched to broad powerband map and it was great. I ride a lot in the cold so I installed a thermostat which helps get fuel mixture and idle more consistent and helped with stalling. However covering the left radiator will achieve similar effects. I also added a g2 throttle cam to change to a slower opening but have since switched back to stock opening.

One mod I would also consider which I have yet to do is the injectioneering throttlebody mod.

As far as suspension I think its great stock. I'm a tad heavy for the springs but it still works great and I'm afraid to change anything. The faster you go the better it gets.

I don't know an exact mileage but I don't think I'd ever make more than 40 miles a tank in the woods. I've been using stock tank as I don't go much farther away than that. If I do I carry MSR fuel cans. Yeah the stock tank has less capacity than the older bikes but its not much and has a similar range.

Basically you can get a way with the right map for you and larger rear sprocket. But slap a rekluse and/or flywheel (i have both) and its unstopable.


That's some great info. Thanks. Sounds like you have a pretty nice setup for the bush. With your mods how does it go on steep technical hills now? What I found with my 04 stock was it was all or nothing to get up difficult hills. No room for error. If I go down the path of the new yz450f I will definitely get the heavier flywheel.

  • achudasko

Posted January 06, 2012 - 01:03 PM

#18

I ditched my 04 yz450 for an 06 wr450 and have never looked back. It gained weight and lost power (when compared to the yz), but the gearing and suspension are SO much better for woods riding that I am actually faster on the WR (after doing all the free mods) and use less energy even though is is substantially heavier.


I would believe that you are quicker on the WR. I think I would possibly be to. But for me it's not about racing or been quicker. It's the buzz I get from riding the bike. Jumping straight off a YZ450F and onto a KTM 450 xcw or the WR I am concerned I will feel flat due to the rather smooth power delivery and plush ride. I imagine I would just get used to this type of power delivery and adapt. No doubt these bikes are much easier in the trickier stuff. There is a happy medium here somewhere.

  • achudasko

Posted January 06, 2012 - 01:07 PM

#19

Maybe I think suspension may be lacking in the WR unless we are talking about the new one coming out

watch this vid. I'm not close to this guys skill level but I agree with what he says


It's a great review and makes sense. I noticed one of the Dakar guys is on a Yz450f. That is saying something. No doubt highly modified.

  • tech24

Posted January 06, 2012 - 01:26 PM

#20

That's some great info. Thanks. Sounds like you have a pretty nice setup for the bush. With your mods how does it go on steep technical hills now? What I found with my 04 stock was it was all or nothing to get up difficult hills. No room for error. If I go down the path of the new yz450f I will definitely get the heavier flywheel.


The steep technical hills are still a bit tricky without the rekluse because it is very easy to stall. But with it you can crawl if you want to (with good balance) however It will still stall occasionally with the rekluse its just the nature of the engine design but with proper setup and knowing when those rare times are to actually use the clutch lever you get pretty used to it and it doesn't happen much. It may not be the easiest bike for those types of hills but I've never ridden a "woods" bike so I can't comment.





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