I should add that your #3 photo comes closer to the correct stance position than the others..  However, you can see that your waist can't go much closer to the steering head and if you roll your feet to "Flat with the center of the Earth", your toes will hit the rock...

The following marked up photo was for a rider in the Trials Forum asking for a review of his stance on this climb.  Comparing even just the bikes, you can see a BIG difference in foot peg placement.  The stick figure shows roughly where he should be but it also shows you how the foot peg placement on the bike allows that to be even possible...




When I mention the old habits?  Well, this rider is new to Trials and by his position on the bike, you can see he's standing as if he was still on his old Enduro...   It took me a while to learn to spot this but now I see it everywhere...  It's what I used to do!

And in jumping logs, if you allow your weight to get behind the center of the bike so that your hands are the only thing preventing you from falling off the rear as in this photo, you'll have a very difficult time unweighting the rear tire when it comes time to float it in the air as in a jump or a Bunny Hop.

In lifting the front tire at the beginning, you do it with knee action...  you push your lower body back at the waist with knee action while your head stays up near the bars. Then as you bring that body mass back over the pegs, you pull more UP on the bars and not BACK on the bars for the lift..  This leaves you in the perfect coiled position to finish the jump with your body as you can see the stick figure is prepared to do. And you'll have plenty of room to extend your arms as you push the bars away and down for the finish..  The Stick Man here has arm room for that finish, you can see the rider does not.

Edited by 2PLY, 03 February 2012 - 09:55 AM.

Some of you have seen this video before. It's a slow motion study of me jumping a fair sized log. In it, look for the points I talked about above..  watch it several times and pause it often to look for the points..  What are my feet doing?  My knees?  Where is my head during all of this and what are my hands doing?  Are my hands stretched out in front of me before I reach the jump apex?  What about after the apex?

Does my skid plate touch the log? and is my rear tire bouncing off of the log or sticking to it?  And notice that I am purposfully tapping the log with my front tire.  It adds to the rear suspension rebound and is a good timing marker for when to jump with your body. When the front tire makes contact, am I ready to jump up and forward with my body or hanging off the back from the handle bars?   All of these fine points matter..

It took me many years to figure out what I was doing wrong.. there was no good instruction available when I started 35 years ago.  And it wasn't so much that I was doing it all "wrong", I was getting through and going places, but now that I know and practice these fine points, I do it with a lot more grace, more precision and MUCH less effort.

Edited by 2PLY, 03 February 2012 - 10:14 AM.

You should open a trials school, 2PLY!

mylsmkj, I'm up in the CDA area. I've been down through McCall a few times going down to Boise. Apparently the guy that owns half the town flys a Lancair like my dad's so they know each other. I've been wanting to take a trip down to MOAB, it looks like there are some awesome places to ride there! You're going to LOVE your trials bike!!!

As a new-to-dirt bikes rider, I'm finding this topic very interesting! Thanks for all the great instruction, guys.

My one bit of input, as a long-time avid mountain bike rider, was that having your feet attached to the bike makes it a lot easier to bunny hop - just spring up, and once you reach apogee, you can literally pull the bike up under you. Heck, we did that all the time even with road bikes to get across railroad tracks, and it's pretty much the same thing you do when alpine skiing to do a retraction turn.

For me, getting the timing all squared away is the part that will require a lot of practice. That and the fact that I haven't learned to wheelie yet either - but I'm sure I'll get it all figured out with sufficient practice.

Thanks 2ply for all of the great pointers on my ledge climbing.  And thanks for getting this thread back on track with your video, that is some precise timing and there couldn't be a better video for crossing logs (I have watched it a number of times before as well)!

BTW: I did make that first ledge. And the bike I'm getting is a '02 280 txt so it's not new by any stretch but that's good because I'm sure it will meet the rock a time or two. If any of you guys make it to Moab I'd be happy to show you around! PM me.

Edited by mylsmkj, 06 February 2012 - 08:41 PM.

I just might take you up on that offer this summer!

an '02 will be plenty new as long as it hasn't been smashed too much. I just got done putting a new top end in my '01 315 and some new plastics and it's like a new bike!

Im pretty sure Ive created the best "how to" video on jumping logs.

Edited by DAAANG, 27 February 2012 - 06:51 PM.

DAAANG-IT!!  I thought I had another winner but that one takes the cake!  But I think I see a secret Shane Watts jump in there... See it?  To the left of that little tree is a shot at a dirt ramp by the root ball of the tree...  I'll bet someone  (not me) can make it TWO logs in one jump!  See it?  

Edited by 2PLY, 01 March 2012 - 08:58 PM.

2PLY, on 01 March 2012 - 08:57 PM, said:

Hmm I didnt think about hitting the jump that way, we already hit it from the other angle (see the direction that blue XT is facing). Ill have to try that next time. Thanks for pointing that out!!!

In my neck of the woods, there are many miles of single track. I wish people would stop cutting and removing all of the logs. In the more remote areas, some logs should be left. Otherwise how are we supposed to get some real world crossings. I kinda suck at it, but it's fun IMO. At 4:19 I hit one of the few good ones. A smidge more speed, and would've cleared it nicely. I did on passes 2, 3, and 4.

Edited by bowhunter007, 02 March 2012 - 11:03 AM.

thanks to 2ply I have a LOT easier time lately.. I have been clearing logs and obstacles much more

DAAANG, on 02 March 2012 - 09:02 AM, said:

Joking aside, the ramp at the root ball is a valid option. You can still use it from the same approach used in the video but at a much slower speed. After passing that little tree, you execute a soft 'S' turn. Swing left to the ramp and then a slight right turn as you ride over and finish still in the slight right turn. The right turn while going over the dirt ramp will also lift your left foot peg up and to the right to clear any little roots sticking up in the air.

The turn described above is also a trick we use to go through 2 trees that are too close together for the bars.  We make a turn to one of the trees and just as the front tire reaches the trunk of the tree, we lean the bike over sharply and turn away from it. The sharp lean tips the grip at the tree up and forward and pulls the same side foot peg clear of the tree. At this angle, the bars take up a lot less horizontal room. Don't lean with the bike, stay upright and lean the bike over between your legs.

As the gap between the trees gets tighter, your angle approach to the target tree is more acute and your speed is slower for more bike lean angle.

This is ALSO a trick way to get over a bunch of nasty roots where the tree is right beside the trail. You turn to the tree and run over the roots right where they connect to the tree. At that place, the dirt and roots will most likely be at the same elevation because there has been no traffic that close to the tree. And again, the turn away from the tree clears your handle bars and foot peg from hitting the tree.

Edited by 2PLY, 03 March 2012 - 09:33 AM.

bowhunter007, on 02 March 2012 - 11:02 AM, said:

I agree big time!!  Most of the public trails I help to clear are quite primitive and not ridden by novice riders so I look for opportunities to leave log jumps where they will not lead to damage by people trying to go around. If I can't make an optional opening in the log to one side, I might take it out completely..  In the videos I have shared, I made one aimed at that exact problem of clear-cutting the trail. I made the video as an example to share with some USFS friends to help them understand there is a different way but it is also good as a wake-up to other people helping to keep trails open.

I've posted this video elsewhere but not on this thread.. There are 2 parts to it. The first part is just talking and pointing out the reasoning for how I cut the blocking logs up. If you care to see this first video, you can find it in my list of videos on my Vimeo Page along with the following videos below The second video is a few examples of some of the possible ways to have fun with the logs even including how to have fun while crashing. In the very first ride of the video, I show the easiest way through.  It's my "escape" route for those that would be tempted to cut the logs out or for possible new riders that might be coming along.

On this same trail at the beginning is another fairly large log that is slightly elevated in a clear area. I cut a 6 foot wide path though it to one side. The nice thing about this log is that as you jump it more to the right side, it's more difficult so you can choose your challenge level.

Here is the "Creative Trail Clearing Part II" video:



And then the elevated log at the beginning of the same trail:



There is another video on my Vimeo site that was just revised to remove the music from one of the artists that complained about his music being included. This revised one should be at the top of my list since it is the newest one added to my group. In it, are 3 of us on Trials bikes on the way with chainsaws in packs for a trail clearing day. And also at the beginning of the ride, you will see that elevated log again. My buddy ahead of me is new to Trials so he when around through the cut while Sam and I went over. It looks different from the low angle of the video and because there was more grass hiding some of it..  That one is titled  "Trail Work Part 1 Revised"

n16ht5, on 02 March 2012 - 07:01 PM, said:

  Good to hear!

Here is a really good one for clearing logs at speed.  Its in French but it is one of the best I have seen to date

http://www.ffmoto.or...C781BA-5F8F9DDE

As a demo video, I like it. Watched parts of it several times over. Maybe 2-ply can answer this for me...is it easier, maybe safer, for an average yo-yo like myself, to catch the top 1/3 of the log with the front tire? I'm not sure I have the intestinal fortitude to attempt a wheelie, at that speed while jumping a log. This is becoming a disturbing hobby of mine, lately. Myself, and another guy, found a prime spot to practice(varying sized logs, with room to fall in some kinda soft sand).

bowhunter007, on 06 March 2012 - 08:05 PM, said:

Most definitely!  In fact, that is THE proper way to attack the larger logs.  In my video of Creative Trail Clearing, I noticed that I didn't use the front tire contact as well as I should have.  However, I believe I kissed the top of all of them. But now I'm curious what I did for the acute angle jump.

You see, I know very well the correct way to do most of this stuff, but that doesn't mean I can execute what I preach as much as I  would like..  Bad habits and instinct are hard to overcome.

In both the double-blip AND the Zap log jump, the front tire is used. The main difference is the approach. The double-blip is a slower approach with the tire lift and then holding that lift or even  dropping the tire on to the face of the log between power blips while the Zap is started a little closer to the log with a healthy dose of power that lifts and drives the front tire up and through the log or step.

And then of course, the Splatter doesn't use the front tire...  but the number of times I've actually done a true Splatter can be counted on my left hand with fingers to spare.

Thanks for the input 2-ply. I have a fascination with riding over stuff, that lots of guys consider impassable obstacles. More often than not, I find myself lying on the ground with first attempts. That must be why I'm dressed like a plastic ninja turtle. Seriously, my goal is a clean jump over a 30" log on my enduro...first try. I'm somewhat cleanly making 20-22 inchers. everyone needs a hobby.Thanks for your inputs on these matters, 2-ply. It shortens our learning curves.

Here are a couple more of the french ones for larger logs

I like them because they break them down and you can understand them even in another language


single large obstacle

http://www.ffmoto.or...C781BA-5F8F9DDE

multiple logs

http://www.ffmoto.or...C781BA-5F8F9DDE

57Hienz, on 07 March 2012 - 08:32 AM, said:

Absolutely excellent videos!!  IF you don't understand French, just try to remember what I've been saying and you'll see it in the video..

I like this one too but he lacks the detail and slow motion study.. But, the more of these you see, it starts to sink in: