Help - Need Advice (warning long)



56 replies to this topic
  • Ricko76

Posted September 30, 2003 - 10:19 PM

#21

For those who couldn't get those images to load earlier, hopefully this will work. Here is a link to my Yahoo Briefcase. I set it up so everyone can view it. The names of the images speak for themselves. Let me no if it doesn't work :)

http://au.f1.pg.brie...e - 426&.view=l

  • Chris_from_Oz

Posted October 01, 2003 - 01:00 AM

#22

I think you're right about your dealer, they obviously have no clue. Can you direct them to ThumperTalk? Maybe they'll learn something.... :D I can't believe they have the gall to ream you for their incompetence. :)

  • Ricko76

Posted October 01, 2003 - 02:18 AM

#23

I think you're right about your dealer, they obviously have no clue. Can you direct them to ThumperTalk? Maybe they'll learn something.... :) I can't believe they have the gall to ream you for their incompetence. :D


It's funny you should mention directing the dealers to Thumpertalk Chris, because the Yamaha Dealer here asked where I'd heard about such a mod. I told them I heard about it on the Internet, and this site in particular and they scoffed and said they didn't want anything to do with it. Very closed minded. :D

I dropped my bike into the shop this morning and they still have my bike. It has been there all day and I rang them this afternoon. They said that they have double checked the timing and valve clearances (which apparently are all fine) and are now working on the jetting again. I asked them to reset it to stock and they argued that stock settings wouldn't work here in Canberra at 1900 feet above sea level. Funny thing is, the jetting was stock before I had the YZ450 cam installed and it was running great for the 10 months I have owned it. I haven't had to change a spark plug at all during that time. These clowns messed with the jetting and installed a new plug and the plug was fouled only after 20kms - blacker than any plug I have ever seen. It has made me super keen to learn more about jetting and do it all myself. Hopefully I can pick the bike up tomorrow. I hope that it will be running properly. What a week. Thank God for beer! :D

  • jasowiii

Posted October 01, 2003 - 03:58 AM

#24

Ricko,
The dealer mentioned YZ timing. Have yo pulled your grey wire???

Jimmy

  • oz426

Posted October 01, 2003 - 04:35 AM

#25

the grey wire mod is not applicable in australia as with the canadian and european models they come from the dealer without one. as for the dealer sayin it has something to do with the wr ignition/yz cam, they're full of it as i am running the yz cam in my wr, and many people have yz timed their wr's with no problem. i think they need to start thinking about what they've done wrong rather than which parts they think are incompatable. there is no way that the use of a yz 450cam in a wr 426 could be the cause of the problems your having, it must be something they've done wrong. i cant stand dealers that stuff people around like this :D
hope it comes good for you in the end :)

  • John_H

Posted October 01, 2003 - 04:25 PM

#26

Just a comment on jetting. After I switched to YZ timing on my 01 WR, I just couldn't get it to run right. First was fouling plugs and sputtering (found dirt in carb from the tube coming off of the petcock). Then I switched needles and did countless jetting/needle clip combos. Finally put in JD needle and solved the problem.

Amazing how sensitive it is to the jetting, and especially how the needle fixed my problem.

Good luck :)

  • Ricko76

Posted October 01, 2003 - 07:37 PM

#27

Just a comment on jetting. After I switched to YZ timing on my 01 WR, I just couldn't get it to run right. First was fouling plugs and sputtering (found dirt in carb from the tube coming off of the petcock). Then I switched needles and did countless jetting/needle clip combos. Finally put in JD needle and solved the problem.

Amazing how sensitive it is to the jetting, and especially how the needle fixed my problem.

Good luck :)


Hey John, Well I pick the bike up in an hour. I will see how it goes. If it continues to stumble and foul plugs I will look at installing the JD needle and also getting the JD jets. Probably a wise investment seeing as I want to get into all the jetting stuff myself. Cheers for the advice :D

  • The_Missile

Posted October 02, 2003 - 12:10 AM

#28

I can really recommend the JD set. I had messed around with mine following taffy jetting, but had switched exhausts back and forth due to the noise nazis. Anyhow having changed pipes, reverted to standard jets (except the needle & main as per JD setting) using the red needle from JD's set I got i to run perfect first time....just by following the instructions. A little later I swapped pipes again and fitted the blue needle due to temp drop and again, near perfect in one go as per instructions. Just neede to drop the needle one clip and it was back on track and I think the only reason I had a clip problem is that I am in Europe and hat to fit the Euro pipe which is far more restricted than even the stock US one.

JD Jetting package is well worth its weight in gold.

  • Ricko76

Posted October 02, 2003 - 01:44 AM

#29

I can really recommend the JD set. I had messed around with mine following taffy jetting, but had switched exhausts back and forth due to the noise nazis. Anyhow having changed pipes, reverted to standard jets (except the needle & main as per JD setting) using the red needle from JD's set I got i to run perfect first time....just by following the instructions. A little later I swapped pipes again and fitted the blue needle due to temp drop and again, near perfect in one go as per instructions. Just neede to drop the needle one clip and it was back on track and I think the only reason I had a clip problem is that I am in Europe and hat to fit the Euro pipe which is far more restricted than even the stock US one.

JD Jetting package is well worth its weight in gold.


Well I picked the bike up from the dealer today and rode it home. The ride home seemed fine (about 12kms) but the real test wil be when I take the bike out on the weekend into the bush. The dealer said they double checked the timing and valve clearances and said that everything was good. They did say that they had a "trainee" working on my jetting on Saturday which may explain how a 175 main jet ended up in my bike, subsequently fouling the plug. When I picked the bike up they said they were confident they got it right this time, no charge to me and gave me some free spark plugs (I hope I don't need them! :)). To the dealers credit, although they didn't seem to have a clue, in the end they did the right thing by me, and I think at the end of the day they were a little embarrassed by the whole thing. Regardless, based on all of the positive feedback I have read on it, I think the James Dean jetting kit is a goer and will be buying one real soon. Hopefully it will make the install of my FMF Exhaust a lot less painless.

As an aside, I just wanna say to anyone reading this thread, don't let my nightmare experience turn you off installing the YZ450F exhaust cam into you WR. The cam itself works fine so far and was not the cause of my problems - and based on others experiences this mod is the goods. My advice is if you are going ahead with the YZ450F cam mod, either do the work yourself or take your bike to a REPUTABLE dealer. This will help prevent any of the headaches I encountered along the way.

Now the weekend can't come fast enough!!!! :D

  • Chris_from_Oz

Posted October 03, 2003 - 02:17 AM

#30

Ricko, hopefully it's all sorted now. Have a good weekend. :)

Visit the ThumperTalk Store for the lowest prices on motorcycle / ATV parts and accessories - Guaranteed
  • Ricko76

Posted October 03, 2003 - 03:41 PM

#31

Ricko, hopefully it's all sorted now. Have a good weekend. :)


Well I just took the bike out. It felt reasonably strong, with a few flat spots here and there. I was hoping and praying everything would go alright, but alas after 20 mins the bike started sputtering and losing power. Once again I nursed the bike home, very dissapointed :D What worse is I have been carrying the Yamaha flag this weekend and last weekend, and both times I have had to cut my ride short and nurse the bike home. My KTM, Suzuki and Kawasaki riding pals are gonna start hacking on me soon. :D

So it looks as though the dealer still couldn't sort the jetting. I haven't pulled the plug yet, but I suspect it will be black. What is interesting is the problem always occurs through the midrange under hard acceleration. It doesn't happen if I am just riding slowly or out on the highway when I am doing 100km an hour. So, I have decided instead of dicking around with the dealer anymore I am gonna get the James Dean jetting kit and see if that will solve my problems.

Can any of you guys tell me if James ships worldwide. I see in the TT Store there is only the option for shipping within the US. :D

  • RichBaker

Posted October 03, 2003 - 05:11 PM

#32

Sounds like they raised the needle...you really don't need to buy anything, just pull the top off and put the clip back in the middle groove. I'd check which main jet they left in it as well.

  • tctrailrider

Posted October 03, 2003 - 06:10 PM

#33

Ricko,
Sounds like the poor running is in the mid throttle area. If the problem is jetting related this is the needle. Try moving it up a clip and see if its better or worse. If worse move it the other way.
My other thought is you say it ran pretty good for for a bit and then started to run bad. If the valve clearances were not set correctly they would get tight as the bike warms up. Switching cams would probably require changing shimms. Maybe the new guy missed this.

  • Ricko76

Posted October 03, 2003 - 06:57 PM

#34

Sounds like they raised the needle...you really don't need to buy anything, just pull the top off and put the clip back in the middle groove. I'd check which main jet they left in it as well.


I decided today is the day I begin carby education. I am so frustrated by the dealer the I have torn the carby out and pulled the needle. It is on the 1st clip (very top). Is this bad? I believe that the stock position is the 4th clip. I will put it in there and see how it goes I guess.

  • Ricko76

Posted October 03, 2003 - 07:03 PM

#35

Ricko,
Sounds like the poor running is in the mid throttle area. If the problem is jetting related this is the needle. Try moving it up a clip and see if its better or worse. If worse move it the other way.
My other thought is you say it ran pretty good for for a bit and then started to run bad. If the valve clearances were not set correctly they would get tight as the bike warms up. Switching cams would probably require changing shimms. Maybe the new guy missed this.


The dealer "triple checked" the timing and valve clearances. I have checked the timing myself and it looks fine. I am pretty sure it is jetting related now - since the plug was black. I have pulled it since my ride today. Might do that now to see how she looks. Hmmmm, I'm starting to sound kinda technical.....I never thought that I'd see the day! :D

As I just posted, the clip is in the very top position (No 1 according to workshop manual. I am guessing the this is bad considering stock is position 4 and my engine is stock except for the 450 cam and PowerNow mod (exhaust is a stocker too). I also notice one of the throttle cables is badly frayed. I thought that the dealer surely would have picked this up and let me know about it. :)

  • Ricko76

Posted October 03, 2003 - 07:16 PM

#36

Just pulled the plug. It is black as night and it only has about 50kms on it. Next stop......main jet. This is kinda fun.... :)

  • Ricko76

Posted October 03, 2003 - 11:58 PM

#37

Okay, I have been working on the jetting all day and just want to get you guys thoughts.

The bike starts, idles and runs fine at low throttle so I haven't done anything to the pilot jet.

The dealer installed a 170 main jet and the needle clip was in the 1st position. This made the plug black and wet and the bike would bog down under acceleration and sputter. I assumed that from this info the bike is running much too rich. So I installed a new spark plug and a 165 main jet and I moved the needle clip to the 4th positiion. The bike immediately started showing the same symptoms....sputtering and loss of power under hard accerleration. I pulled the plug and once again it was black. So I installed another new plug and moved the needle clip to the 2nd position. Inititally the bike seemed fine, but then started sputtering under accerleration and also backfiring on deceleration. After this run the bike smelt a bit funny too :) I pulled the plug and again black but this time the very tip was white (from backfiring?). So I would appreciate any advice where to go from here. I thought backfiring was associated with a bike running lean, however the plug is black. Should I go to maybe a 160 main jet and experiment with the needle clip some more? Unfortunately I don't have a 160 main jet with me and bike stores are closed here on a Sunday, but I would appreciate you guys thoughts on what I have described above. I hope I am on the right track. :D

  • Chris_from_Oz

Posted October 04, 2003 - 01:05 AM

#38

Ricko, I have to agree with the other guys here. It definitely sounds like they messed up the timing. I also don't think a 175 main jet would be helping, or the 45 pilot for that matter. When it is confirmed that the timing is correct, I would start with a 165 main, and the 42 pilot. That is what your bike should have had stock. Also the needle will probably need to be lowered one notch from stock (raise clip one clip position). Make certain that the timing is right before trying to sort the jetting though. PM me if I haven't explained anything clearly, or if I can help to fix your problem. :)

Rick, I would wait 'til Monday, and get a 165 or even 162 main. Put the 42 pilot in it if you have one, if not grab one of them as well. You will probably have to drop needle as I described in my above post. I know a lot of guys in Oz with 426's, and all run similar settings, although some run YZ needles instead of the stock one. My own WR runs 162 main, 42 pilot, 3rd clip position on the needle (stock needle), PowerNow (homemade) and a YZ muffler. These settings have been great in elevations well above yours. The only thing I have ever needed to do in the hills, is adjust the fuel screw a quarter of a turn here or there, depending how high up I am. :D

  • The_Missile

Posted October 06, 2003 - 04:52 AM

#39

Oh my... good luck...

Seriously though, if you are ready to tackle the jetting, you are ready to at least CHECK on your own, if the timing has been correctly done...or did I miss that and you have done it. If not there is a pdf lurking somwheres on here that can give you step by step what to do, what it should look like.

On the jetting, if you can be patient I would wait to get the JD jetting if you are going to go that route anyway. Nothing beats a hands on education...lord knows I have pulled my carb apart countless times... but it can be extremely frustrating at times because it seems only 1 out of 5 things you do makes an improvement and you waste a lot of time fiddling with stuff that you barely understand (at leat that was it with me). However if you are brave of heart go on, you will find the support you need here to solve your problems.

cheers

  • Vibeguy

Posted October 06, 2003 - 02:48 PM

#40

I just finished reading this post and I think it's time you looked elsewhere for the problem. Cam timing, valve clearances and jetting have all been well flogged.

What about electrical problems? Coil, ignition timing, plug lead? Something changes when the engine get's up to operating temperature. It seems to me if it was jetting related it would run bad all the time, not after 20 minutes?

I know this problem started right after the mod was done and the first step in trouble-shooting is to look at what's been changed. You've checked and re-checked all that was done and everything seems to be ok, time to check something else.

I have the 03 cam in my 02 426 and it worked great with only minor jetting changes, leaned the jet needle 1 clip position.

8 hours to change the cam? I hope they didn't charge you for the vaseline.

Hope this helps!




 
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