Why didn't Yamaha put in the newer, reward slanting engine in this bike and just de-tune it a bit. Makes me wounder if they are going to get rid of that engine in the YZ.
2012 wr450
Started by
cherrypicker7
, Nov 19 2011 08:36 AM
710 replies to this topic
Posted 12 December 2011 - 10:13 PM
Justheman80 said:
Why didn't Yamaha put in the newer, reward slanting engine in this bike and just de-tune it a bit. Makes me wounder if they are going to get rid of that engine in the YZ.
Because it's not WR, it's too fragile for the extra weight, it rev's too quickly for enduro use, and it's too new.
The new WRF FI engine is based on the Quad YZF 450R, not the 2009 YZ450F.
Posted 13 December 2011 - 11:39 AM
any ideas when there will be reviews or when the dealers will be getting these in
Posted 13 December 2011 - 12:04 PM
About the ficticious WR300. I'm in. My son and I talk about that all the time. If Yamaha would give the YZ250 one more update... Give it the new body style, 18" wheel, bigger tank, kick stand, that sweet SSS suspension tuned for off road and that fantastic Yamaha turning geometry. Maybe make it a 300 - 250 would be fine. Make it like a 250 XC. All business but with an off road slant. I think they would knock it out of the park with that bike. C'mon Yamaha - 2 strokes are coming back! Get in the game.
Posted 13 December 2011 - 02:59 PM
J D R said:
any ideas when there will be reviews or when the dealers will be getting these in
No idea on when the mags will get them, but they'll be at the dealerships in March.
Posted 13 December 2011 - 03:45 PM
"Because it's not WR, it's too fragile for the extra weight, it rev's too quickly for enduro use, and it's too new."
That's why they should de-tuned it and it's not too new. They are offering a performance head and other go fast goodies, so why not start with the newest generation of engine. It just seams they should have used the new YZ frame, slapped WR trans in (maybe a six speed since I dreaming), woods suspension and lights like all the past WR models.
That's why they should de-tuned it and it's not too new. They are offering a performance head and other go fast goodies, so why not start with the newest generation of engine. It just seams they should have used the new YZ frame, slapped WR trans in (maybe a six speed since I dreaming), woods suspension and lights like all the past WR models.
Posted 14 December 2011 - 10:00 AM
I'm glad Yamaha went this route with the WR. If you want a YZ with the new engine and turbine exhaust then go buy one...then stick on an 18" rear, new chain and skid plate. The yz with a new map setting rules it in the woods, i love mine. Look at Whibley in the OMA's on his new YZ, he's kicking a$$. if you don't want something as "racey" then buy the tried and true WR. they built it this way for a reason, so that it is different then the YZ, now you have 2 different platforms to work off of to get the bike you want. why would a company build 3-4 models of the same 450? It doesn't make any sense. just because KTM did it for a few years? If you want to customize a bike with a chit pile of bolt ons then have at it. either bike in stock form will work fine. I race xc's and hare scrambles and all i have done is put heavier springs in my yz, i played with the clickers on 1 ride and then went back to stock...just buy it and ride it. this new wr is great!! you wanna be fast on it, then start training.
if you want a light weight 450 bush bike, you'll have to fly to Pluto for that one...not on this planet...good grief.
if you want a light weight 450 bush bike, you'll have to fly to Pluto for that one...not on this planet...good grief.
Posted 14 December 2011 - 06:44 PM
Justheman80 said:
"Because it's not WR, it's too fragile for the extra weight, it rev's too quickly for enduro use, and it's too new."
That's why they should de-tuned it and it's not too new. They are offering a performance head and other go fast goodies, so why not start with the newest generation of engine. It just seams they should have used the new YZ frame, slapped WR trans in (maybe a six speed since I dreaming), woods suspension and lights like all the past WR models.
That's why they should de-tuned it and it's not too new. They are offering a performance head and other go fast goodies, so why not start with the newest generation of engine. It just seams they should have used the new YZ frame, slapped WR trans in (maybe a six speed since I dreaming), woods suspension and lights like all the past WR models.
They very easily could have and it's not too fragile. I think the real reason is just the layout of the YZ. Where would the battery go with the tornado exhaust? There are probably some options for that, some good, some bad, but in the long run maybe it would have been too much extra engineering this time around. As mentioned above, there are people killing it on the YZ off road and that's all the Ampro team races. One platform for both with different tuning/suspension/gearbox would probably work just fine, but most people are not going to give up the e-start for off road.
Posted 06 January 2012 - 12:21 PM
A friend called the local dealer last week. They are getting 2 bikes in March.
Posted 06 January 2012 - 02:36 PM
As much of an issue as KTM has had with their FI systems I wonder if some people will finally stop sipping orange cool-aid and start taking a look at the new WR's? I don't follow the moto forums very closely but has there been as many issues with clogged injectors and mysterious flameouts and poor running on the Jap bikes?
Posted 06 January 2012 - 03:20 PM
BajaFool said:
Yamaha Family,
Good thought on which models to compare. One correction however, I compared a 2011 WR450F, and a 2011 450EXC. Using your suggestion, the 2012 WR450F weighs 124 Kg/273.5 Lb and the 2012 450XC-W weighs 116.7 Kg/257.4 Lb. That is a 7.3 Kg/17.1 Lb difference -- noteworthy and commendable by any standard.
Good thought on which models to compare. One correction however, I compared a 2011 WR450F, and a 2011 450EXC. Using your suggestion, the 2012 WR450F weighs 124 Kg/273.5 Lb and the 2012 450XC-W weighs 116.7 Kg/257.4 Lb. That is a 7.3 Kg/17.1 Lb difference -- noteworthy and commendable by any standard.
'Dirtrider' shows the 450 xc-w at 261 lbs - http://www.dirtrider...test/index.html. 12 lbs is still significant. KTM wins in the weight category, assuming the information is reliable. There's a premium price for those pounds, and I would pay it if only KTM had proven themselves in the reliability dept. over the last several years. They haven't.
Neither has Husaberg. I wanted to like the new Berg's. They do handle well. I have two friends who have them. One bike lasted a few months before the owner got fed up with the top-heavy feel. The other has been plagued with problems and the bike is a continuous money pit.
The FE450 weighs 261 lbs or 267 lbs or 273 lbs (same as the new WR450) depending on which site you believe.
http://www.mbike.com/husaberg/fe450e/2010
http://motoprofi.com...e_450-2010.html
Posted 06 January 2012 - 09:17 PM
The KTM is lighter, no doubt, but it has a little advantage getting there. The 4 ah battery compared to the 6 ah battery on the WR is good for about 3 lbs of it. Along with that, the WR has a linkage rear end and a catch can for the coolant. Little stuff like that adds up. Apples to apples, the KTM is still lighter, but my guess is that the new frame and suspension is going to make the WR feel lighter than the previous WR model. Had they used the rear slanted YZ motor, it probably would have been even more so.
By the way, up until now, I have never heard anyone describe the 70 degree Husabergs as feeling top heavy.
By the way, up until now, I have never heard anyone describe the 70 degree Husabergs as feeling top heavy.
Posted 07 January 2012 - 06:09 AM
Hi guys,
I have always been a Yamaha fan.
Had 8 Yamaha's so far (still have a 09 Yamaha R1 track bike). Dirt wise, had a 02 WR426F & 07 WR450F.
I was also waiting for the 12 WR450F to arrive in Portugal (dealer says it will be here in March) to trade in the 07 WR. I have a very good relation with the local Yamaha dealer, as I am riding Yamaha for the past 20 years (I am 37).
After reading that the 12 WR is basically the same engine/gearbox (5 gears) fitted into a new frame and it would probably weight the same as mine 07, I decided to try other brands...
I also had the Baja 500 coming and didn't want to invest money preparing the older bike.
Bought a 12 KTM 450 EXC Six Days. If you want to stick to Yamaha, just don't try one... it feels way lighter than what the scale says, FI motor is very smooth and powerful, easy access to all main components for easier maintenance, fantastic brakes & handling. And in Portugal, even the 6 Days version is cheaper than the 11 WR... Probably due to being an Euro bike vs the Jap/yen currency exchange rate.
It now has 30 hours on it, no problems so far. Did read all the forums and replaced the problematic FI filter before the injector and installed a tank sock for pre-filtering gas. So far, so good...
I agree Yamaha reliability is tough to beat (my 07 WR did +6.000 dirt miles with touching the engine and with just a valve check, sold it to a friend and it still going strong).
My usual riding party of 15, 3 years ago was all Yamaha and Honda. Now there's just 3 Jap bikes to trade in for KTM/Husaberg dirt bikes. I was one of the last one's to swap brands.
Let me just say that I do ride some mountain single track, but 70% of my riding is high speed raid/baja kind of riding.
When the 12 WR comes I will try it anyway but for the short term I will stay orange.
CS.
I have always been a Yamaha fan.
Had 8 Yamaha's so far (still have a 09 Yamaha R1 track bike). Dirt wise, had a 02 WR426F & 07 WR450F.
I was also waiting for the 12 WR450F to arrive in Portugal (dealer says it will be here in March) to trade in the 07 WR. I have a very good relation with the local Yamaha dealer, as I am riding Yamaha for the past 20 years (I am 37).
After reading that the 12 WR is basically the same engine/gearbox (5 gears) fitted into a new frame and it would probably weight the same as mine 07, I decided to try other brands...
I also had the Baja 500 coming and didn't want to invest money preparing the older bike.
Bought a 12 KTM 450 EXC Six Days. If you want to stick to Yamaha, just don't try one... it feels way lighter than what the scale says, FI motor is very smooth and powerful, easy access to all main components for easier maintenance, fantastic brakes & handling. And in Portugal, even the 6 Days version is cheaper than the 11 WR... Probably due to being an Euro bike vs the Jap/yen currency exchange rate.
It now has 30 hours on it, no problems so far. Did read all the forums and replaced the problematic FI filter before the injector and installed a tank sock for pre-filtering gas. So far, so good...
I agree Yamaha reliability is tough to beat (my 07 WR did +6.000 dirt miles with touching the engine and with just a valve check, sold it to a friend and it still going strong).
My usual riding party of 15, 3 years ago was all Yamaha and Honda. Now there's just 3 Jap bikes to trade in for KTM/Husaberg dirt bikes. I was one of the last one's to swap brands.
Let me just say that I do ride some mountain single track, but 70% of my riding is high speed raid/baja kind of riding.
When the 12 WR comes I will try it anyway but for the short term I will stay orange.
CS.
Posted 15 January 2012 - 03:51 PM
Krannie, on 12 December 2011 - 10:13 PM, said:
Because it's not WR, it's too fragile for the extra weight, it rev's too quickly for enduro use, and it's too new.
The new WRF FI engine is based on the Quad YZF 450R, not the 2009 YZ450F.
The new yz450 is alot of things.Fragile isnt one of them.What makes you come to that conclusion?
Posted 15 January 2012 - 04:03 PM
I have no doubt people have had problems with KTMs. I feel if they were all not reliable and had mechanical that 90%+ bikes at any given off road event would be bikes other than orange.
I hope for the sake of the sport the bike new WR proves to kick ass. If they are competition for the Ktm that could only be good for everyone.
I remember before 4 stroke movement that 3 or 4 lbs between bikes was a big deal. Now a bike 20lbs heavier for some reason isnt as important. Probably because the magazines dont make a big of deal about it and many riders think what magazine reviews think.
I hope for the sake of the sport the bike new WR proves to kick ass. If they are competition for the Ktm that could only be good for everyone.
I remember before 4 stroke movement that 3 or 4 lbs between bikes was a big deal. Now a bike 20lbs heavier for some reason isnt as important. Probably because the magazines dont make a big of deal about it and many riders think what magazine reviews think.
Posted 17 January 2012 - 07:49 PM
MaxPower, on 15 January 2012 - 04:03 PM, said:
I have no doubt people have had problems with KTMs. I feel if they were all not reliable and had mechanical that 90%+ bikes at any given off road event would be bikes other than orange.
They're reliable if you don't mind doing the frequent and expensive maintenance on them. The 2012 KTM big bores have been out for just a short time and already I am seeing numerous reports of low-hour motors smoking on cold starts. All their FI bikes have to be retrofitted with an in-line fuel filter because the factory set-up is inadequate. With simple things like this getting overlooked by the factory, you have to wonder what else has been inadequately tested. Keep in mind the new KTM 4T's are a completely new engine design, except for maybe a few internals (hopefully they upgraded the piston rings).
I'll don't care if the orange bikes are 12lbs lighter. If weight were the only concern, the choice would be simple - 2-stroke (any make).
However, I'm a 4-stroke guy, and engine durability is my top criteria for bike selection. Yamaha has proven to be #1 in that dept. I hope that reputation stays around in 2012.
