2012 wr450



716 replies to this topic
  • Krannie McKranface

Posted March 12, 2012 - 03:13 PM


If Yamaha is scaling back production to meet a reduced market demand, then that makes sense. If they are trying to artifically manipulate the value and image by not having bikes on their showroom floor, then that's pretty damn stupid. If the demand is truly there then KTM will just produce more bikes and Honda will eventually get around to having the fuel injected crf450x.

Still don't know why they won't produce a 50 state street legal version though.


Because they have to sell 150,000 of a particular model, for it to be highly profitable, and that's more than the entire dual sport market!

It's not artificial, it's supply and demand. Make a great bike, flood the market with them, and what do you have? A highly de-valued bike, with leftovers for years.

Just ask Honda about that....

KTM only sells 90,000 units globally of all models per year. Up from about 80k in 2008.
They own over 50% of the 'dirt bike' market.

Honda sells 11,000 bikes every working day. That's 2.4 million bikes a year.
Yamaha sells about 1.6 million bikes a year.

US MC Sales 2008:
[color=#000000][font=georgia, serif][size=1]

Dual Sport 45,250

[/size][/font][/color]
[color=#38761D][font=georgia, serif][size=1]

[color="#000000"]Off Road 146,779[/color]

[/size][/font][/color]
[color=#38761D][font=georgia, serif][size=1]

[color="#000000"]Street Bikes 611,133[/color]

[/size][/font][/color]
[color=#38761D][font=georgia, serif][size=1]

[color="#000000"]Scooters 76,748[/color]

[/size][/font][/color]
[color=#38761D][font=georgia, serif][size=1]

[color="#000000"]Total 879,910[/color]

[/size][/font][/color]

  • 123BigcoopDawg576

Posted March 14, 2012 - 06:15 AM


Just ask Honda about that....

KTM only sells 90,000 units globally of all models per year. Up from about 80k in 2008.
They own over 50% of the 'dirt bike' market.

Honda sells 11,000 bikes every working day. That's 2.4 million bikes a year.
Yamaha sells about 1.6 million bikes a year.


Yamaha is still the better bike :thumbsup:

  • OUTERLIMITS

Posted March 14, 2012 - 12:26 PM


Because they have to sell 150,000 of a particular model, for it to be highly profitable, and that's more than the entire dual sport market!


So with that said, today Yamaha would not make or sell the WR450F if it was not profitable. If they needed to sell 150,000 of them, why not equip them all as street legal, a la 450EXC and have that as the only model. Does anyone really believe they would not sell more than they do now? There is nothing really better about a 450XCRW over a 450EXC other than the price tag. It still comes down to liability and Yamaha and Honda simply don't have the stomach to make these things street legal. Too bad that Yamaha does not want to take the chance that the most reliable race worthy off road bike would be also be the most reliable race worthy dualsport.

  • supermega1

Posted March 14, 2012 - 12:44 PM


Anybody other then BosieBee get notice that there bike is coming in?

Still waiting to hear from the dealer myself on when mine might arrive. The dealer originally ordered only two bikes which pre-sold within days of ordering them so he ordered another one for the floor. Which I then put a deposit on. Hopefully mine comes in with the first two.

  • Lumberjack450

Posted March 14, 2012 - 03:15 PM


Really considering buying one this summer. Please keep this thread updated with ride reports, impressions, and problems.

  • jetfuel

Posted March 15, 2012 - 05:24 AM


Just read this.. Hmmm .. http://www.cyclenews...-yamaha-wr450f/

So who exactly are these owners Yamaha polled ?

  • Just_a_trail_rider

Posted March 15, 2012 - 06:30 AM


Just read this.. Hmmm .. http://www.cyclenews...-yamaha-wr450f/

So who exactly are these owners Yamaha polled ?

What's wrong with this review. This sounds the same as the australian reviews. They made the design racier.

I have an 05 and started racing it. Then I realized that the bike wasn't the best at that. Now I maintain a fun bike and a race bike. I like the wr better, but don't feel good about it when I'm racing.

Keep in mind that in Australia, the WR is a very, very , very popular bike. I am sure that their opinions were polled as well.

Overall, I am searching for that "one bike" that will server as my aggressive play ride bike as well as the occasional race bike. The introduction of this bike, along with my recent KTM expenses definitely has me thinking about what my next bike will be.

  • Krannie McKranface

Posted March 15, 2012 - 06:31 AM


Just read this.. Hmmm .. http://www.cyclenews...-yamaha-wr450f/

So who exactly are these owners Yamaha polled ?



[color=#333333]It utilizes the same basic five-valve, DOHC, five-speed motor as before, but it is rotated slightly in the frame, pivoting at the swingarm axel, giving the cylinder and head a more upright angle. This makes the rotational mass of the cams closer to the center point of the chassis to improve handling and to help give it that more agile and lightweight feeling when in motion.[/color]


[color=#333333]SOUNDS GOOD TO ME[/color]

Edited by Krannie, March 15, 2012 - 06:31 AM.


  • Krannie McKranface

Posted March 15, 2012 - 06:37 AM


What's wrong with this review. This sounds the same as the australian reviews. They made the design racier.

I have an 05 and started racing it. Then I realized that the bike wasn't the best at that. Now I maintain a fun bike and a race bike. I like the wr better, but don't feel good about it when I'm racing.

Keep in mind that in Australia, the WR is a very, very , very popular bike. I am sure that their opinions were polled as well.

Overall, I am searching for that "one bike" that will server as my aggressive play ride bike as well as the occasional race bike. The introduction of this bike, along with my recent KTM expenses definitely has me thinking about what my next bike will be.


DITTO, MD!

The 'allure' of the WR's easy handling and amazing power delivery has me always thinking about another one.....and I've had (3) so far!
I could just never come to terms with the suspension, after many attempts to improve it.

The KTM 450XC-W is undoubtedly the the best bike out there right now, design and handling wise.
But I just don't like the idea of such an expensive and fragile bike. I think the bike is over-engineered, and under-assembled.

The WR seems by far the best 'compromise'. It's about 20lbs heavier, but indisputably more reliable.

Hell, a Lithium battery, pipe upgrade, and some Tubliss front and rear, and you will loose 10lbs in no time.

Edited by Krannie, March 15, 2012 - 06:40 AM.


  • BoiseBee

Posted March 15, 2012 - 08:09 AM


What's wrong with this review. This sounds the same as the australian reviews. They made the design racier.


Agreed, this review sounds just like the one I gave on Sunday..... much improved suspension, great chassis, and power that is usable everywhere with the new FI system. Judging by the ride reviews that are trickling in, Yamaha is looking to have achieved their goal, and we all know how the long-term durability tests are going come out. This is definitely going to be the best bang-for-the-buck trail bike out there.

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  • Just_a_trail_rider

Posted March 15, 2012 - 08:15 AM


DITTO, MD!

The 'allure' of the WR's easy handling and amazing power delivery has me always thinking about another one.....and I've had (3) so far!
I could just never come to terms with the suspension, after many attempts to improve it.

The KTM 450XC-W is undoubtedly the the best bike out there right now, design and handling wise.
But I just don't like the idea of such an expensive and fragile bike. I think the bike is over-engineered, and under-assembled.

The WR seems by far the best 'compromise'. It's about 20lbs heavier, but indisputably more reliable.

Hell, a Lithium battery, pipe upgrade, and some Tubliss front and rear, and you will loose 10lbs in no time.

As a relatively new KTM owner, I have mixed feelings about it. If I were to compare my experience as a WR owner to my experience as a KTM owner, I would say that they are similar. Each bike has it shortcomings. But in the case of the KTM, it was the new motors that they put out starting in 2008.

Think of it this way... those 2005 - 2007 KTM 450/525 are beloved as much as the wr450 is. You will have to work hard to pry them out of the owners hands. Pretty good chassis and a motor whose reliability easily rivaled the wr450. I think they had that same motor for the past 7 years, so they were ready to change it. So they designed this new chassis (08-up) which is absolutely amazing. You really gotta ride it so see what the hype is all about. But instead of sticking with their old tried and true RFS motor, they put an all new motor in it (RF4). That motor has had some mixed reviews regarding its reliability. A small percentage failed, but those owners are a large percent of the talkers.

In truth, they had a couple basic designs, one was a twin cam, single sump race engine that has a couple of fixable issues to make it more reliable. The stock rings can wear out in as little as 60 hrs (like a two stroke) and the cylinder walls are easily damaged. It also has some issues with an occasionally faulty cam chain tensioner as well as some bad oil pumps. You know the fix for this is really an aftermarket piston/rings as well as about $250 in other parts. The valves never move and the bottom end will last forever. So for $400 and an afternoon, which is pennies in the grand scheme of things, you can have piece of mind and easily fix what's wrong with their RF4 motors and have something pretty darn reliable.

With their XC4 motors, it had a single cam design, but with dual oil chambers. A very small percentage had issues with oil migrating from the engine to the tranny, leaving the crank with low oil (yikes!) and causing problems. The other problem is that it burns oil at times, something solved by an aftermarket piston and new valve guides/seals. Again, small percentage of the bikes with problems which represent a large portion of the comments.

I wouldn't call the KTM fragile, I'd call it "new". They just need to stop changing it and refine what they have. But... the chassis on the KTM is so good, IMO, then its worth it to fix the problems.

The Yamaha, on the other hand, is working on their 12th year of that basic motor designed which started out in the yz400 years ago. Its tried and true and tested. Is so reliable that its hard to believe. However, the chassis is really not for aggressive riding. WHen you are racing, it feels old, outdated, doesn't turn well, doesn't stop well, is top heavy, etc... Its pretty versatile, but is not not race-y enough (new word, look it up!). So you gotta start doing things to lighten it up, upgrade the brakes, increase the midrange etc... After you've spent about a thousand dollars, you will realize that you've added the stuff that about brings it up to the level of the stock KTM chassis.

Perfect bike would be the wr450 engine in the KTM chassis. They don't make those, so I have one of each.

Lets hope that the new KTM and the new WR properly addresses both their shortcomings. I would love to have one bike which kinds does it all. But both the new KTM's and the WR450's are first year bikes. I think I'll let the teething problems sort themselves out first

Oh, the price of the two bikes is comparable. There's only about $1000 difference. If you upgrade the Yamaha brakes to be as good as the KTM and you add a hydraulic clutch and triple clamp with a sharper steering angle, you will have spent $1000. The prices of those bikes, if similarly equipped, are about the same.

Edited by mauricedorris, March 15, 2012 - 08:46 AM.


  • OUTERLIMITS

Posted March 15, 2012 - 09:09 AM


I wonder if this new 3 phase stator is going to pose a problem for adding a decent light. I know overall it looks to have more output, but if a portion of that is dedicated to the FI and cannot be touched, then it's possible that the remaining two circuits cannot be unified for as much output as the old bike.

  • grunkthump

Posted March 15, 2012 - 12:20 PM


http://motocrossacti...EPORT-8751.aspx

  • Krannie McKranface

Posted March 15, 2012 - 05:51 PM


http://motocrossacti...EPORT-8751.aspx


That's pretty good news. MXA doesn't pull punches.....but it wasn't Jody writing that column....and he hates non-mx bikes.

  • Navaho6

Posted March 15, 2012 - 06:20 PM


Initial Dirtrider.com comments :
[color=#000000]

"We've spent a couple hours riding the new WR450 and so far are loving it, thanks to the fuel injection and all new frame and suspension. We will be racing the River Ranch GNCC out in here in Florida on it in and will have an even better feel for what it is about"

[/color]

  • Krannie McKranface

Posted March 15, 2012 - 07:11 PM


Simi Valley Yamaha said they have sold (6) '12 WR450's already. Sight-unseen.

  • Navaho6

Posted March 16, 2012 - 04:20 AM


...........................Oh, the price of the two bikes is comparable. There's only about $1000 difference. If you upgrade the Yamaha brakes to be as good as the KTM and you add a hydraulic clutch and triple clamp with a sharper steering angle, you will have spent $1000. The prices of those bikes, if similarly equipped, are about the same.


I don't see a need for those changes on the new WR. Hydraulic clutch has a smooth feel but will leave you stranded when it starts leaking. I've had that happen. I'll stay with my cable clutch.

The new WR has a steeper steering angle than last year. They fixed that problem.

Brakes - I haven't ridden the new WR yet but I haven't heard any complaints about the brakes. In fact, I've heard more complaints and witnessed more failures on KTM brakes than most other bikes. Maybe KTM has fixed that on the newer bikes.

Edited by Navaho6, March 21, 2012 - 04:20 PM.


  • meanxr

Posted March 16, 2012 - 05:33 AM


The WR uses a Keihin fuel-injection system using 42mm throttle bodies and a 12-hole injector. The system has also been designed to work off a capacitor so, if desired, you can remove the electric starting system and battery for a kick-only starter system and reduce overall weight by about nine pounds. There's also a more powerful 160 watt (formerly 120W) three-phase A.C. magneto generator to power the FI system. Freakin' sweet, I want one sooooooooo baaaaaaad!!!!

  • Just_a_trail_rider

Posted March 16, 2012 - 07:18 AM


I don't see a need for those changes on the new WR. Hydraulic clutch has a smooth feel but will leave you stranded when it starts leaking. I've had that happen. I'll stay with my cable clutch.

The new WR has a steeper steering angle than last year. They fix that problem.

Brakes - I haven't ridden the new WR yet but I haven't heard any complaints about the brakes. In fact, I've heard more complaints and witnessed more failures on KTM brakes than most other bikes. Maybe KTM has fixed that on the newer bikes.

Honestly, we dont "NEED" any of it. Its mainly about what we want or desire. Having those extra things like hydraulic clutches is nice.

Not sure who you ride with that they have clutch and brake problems. I ride and race in the desert and we are hard on our bikes at times. We've had to tow out a KTM as well as my wr450. The engineering of both is just amazing.

  • J D R

Posted March 16, 2012 - 07:34 AM


the wr sounds sweet i would love to ride one but my dealer had no idea if and when he could get one so i went with the new ktm hopfully its as relaible as the wr will be




 
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