2012 wr450



716 replies to this topic
  • geoffro

Posted November 30, 2011 - 11:23 AM

#21

I have had mostly Yamaha (at least 8 or 9) and still love them, but I see KTM doing lots of late night "homework"!!
Yamaha boys better start scratching their heads to keep up....

  • Ministry

Posted November 30, 2011 - 11:32 AM

#22

This is just a half-azsed effort by Yamaha. 5 years go by and this is the best update they can come up with?

I don't really understand Yamaha and the rest of the Jap off-road bikes. It's like they've conceded the off-road and DS market to the Euro bikes and could care less.

  • Summit

Posted December 02, 2011 - 12:17 PM

#23

It's hard to believe that Yamaha is not capable of easily blowing the competion away with a redesigned LIGHT FI 4 stroke. However with that said currently you can bet that your heavy WR will get you home every time! Not sure you can say that about the wazoo lighweight orange model!!

  • PATHPOUNDER

Posted December 04, 2011 - 04:41 AM

#24

Have they started making aftermarket fuel tanks for the fuel injected bikes yet..? I have been out of the loop lately...being able to ride at different elevations without altering the jetting appeals to me..but 2.1 gallons..thats slim..gotta have more fuel..

  • ccman60

Posted December 04, 2011 - 06:02 AM

#25

This is just a half-azsed effort by Yamaha. 5 years go by and this is the best update they can come up with?

I don't really understand Yamaha and the rest of the Jap off-road bikes. It's like they've conceded the off-road and DS market to the Euro bikes and could care less.


What he said. With the dual sport and adventure bike market growing so quickley, and thier ability to react quickley, you would think they would. I sure like my Dr & DRZ, but if Yamaha would have just made this bike a dual sport I'd have one.

  • martaz

Posted December 04, 2011 - 07:56 AM

#26

Posted Image
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Sorry to say I wasn't impressed, Smaller tank, 5KG heavier ! , overall look not as good looking as previous model

  • BajaFool

Posted December 04, 2011 - 01:11 PM

#27

Martaz,
I'm curious where you found a weight difference of 5Kg/11 Lb between the 2011 and 2012 WR450Fs. You can compare the specifications and weights of these two motorcycles on the Yamaha Motors Canada website, http://www.yamaha-motor.ca/select.php. The weight for the 2011 motorcycle is 122 Kg/269 Lb and the weight for the 2012 model is 124 Kg/273.5 Lb, both weights with fuel. The fuel capacity is listed as 8 L for the 2011 and 7.5 L for the 2012. If you subtract the weight of .5 L of gasoline (.38 Kg/.84 Lb) from the specifications of the 2011 model, it weighs 121.62 Kg/268.1 Lb, that would seem to be a 2.38 Kg/5.3 Lb difference in weight, when compared to the weight of the 2012 model.

We have seen this 2.3 Kg/5 Lb increase in weight across all of the motorcycles that have gone fuel injected. While the increase in weight is unfortunate, it is what it is.

Just as a comparison for reference, let's look at the weight of the competition. The weight of the 2011 WR450F is 122 Kg, with 8 L of fuel and the weight of the 2011 KTM 450EXC with 8 L of fuel is 120.9 Kg. Both motorcycles are equipped with carburetors. In my opinion, 1.1 Kgs/2.4 Lb difference in weight is nothing.

When we are riding direct injected 2-cycle motorcycles in the not too distant future, we will look back at the heavy motorcycles we currently ride and laugh.

  • Seabass

Posted December 04, 2011 - 06:31 PM

#28

I'd buy one tomorrow if it came witha license plate, until then I'll keep riding my '07 WR until it dies. Then I'll hafta pick up some over priced Euro trash.....please Yamaha, don't make me buy a KTM or Husky.

  • martaz

Posted December 05, 2011 - 02:09 AM

#29

Martaz,
I'm curious where you found a weight difference of 5Kg/11 Lb between the 2011 and 2012 WR450Fs.

We have seen this 2.3 Kg/5 Lb increase in weight across all of the motorcycles that have gone fuel injected. While the increase in weight is unfortunate, it is what it is.

Just as a comparison for reference, let's look at the weight of the competition. The weight of the 2011 WR450F is 122 Kg, with 8 L of fuel and the weight of the 2011 KTM 450EXC with 8 L of fuel is 120.9 Kg. Both motorcycles are equipped with carburetors. In my opinion, 1.1 Kgs/2.4 Lb difference in weight is nothing.

When we are riding direct injected 2-cycle motorcycles in the not too distant future, we will look back at the heavy motorcycles we currently ride and laugh.


I took these stats from the NEC motorcycle show on the statistics boards in front on the bikes, seeing my last bike was a 2007 WR 450 I was curious to see what the Japs had on offer, But like I said I wasn't impressed.
Also the sales person on the stand couldn't give me a good enough answer why the changes, saying the fuel injection doesn't use as much fuel hence using a smaller tank ! when the previous tank was to small anyway ! and then going to say even though the bike was now heavier it feels lighter, I must admit I know this to be true but its not a good sales pitch.

  • 2in2out

Posted December 05, 2011 - 10:28 AM

#30

All this talk about weight just makes me laugh. Reminds me of all the emphasis on weight put on MTB's in the late 90's early 2000's. I saw friends spend their life savings on the newest, lightest titanium bit to save half a gram. Most of their egos weighed that much, and none of it mattered, because they lacked skill or ability in most areas of riding. Frames and parts broke and corroded. They spent more money on the newest, lightest crap.

If I were to get a '12 WR, by the time I'm done making the usual mods (Bash plate, Radiator guards, hand guards, dry cell battery, exhaust, tires, larger fuel tank, DS lighting kit, etc...) the amount of weight difference is already out the window.

I had a pretty smart guy tell me that if the new part I was buying came in lightweight materials (titamium, etc) or standard material (steel) that if it didn't produce a weight savings by a minimum 5% for the overall bike weight, it wasn't worth the extra cost, and wouldn't change the weight dynamics and kinetics that much.

I'll carry more weight in water, fuel, food and tools in my pack that will also make the difference less and less noticable.

Having good suspension and better ergos will help reduce fatigue. If the EFI will have less potential for flame-outs with large elevation changes, chances of having dead starts on nasty or technical terrain will be less = less fatigue.

I'm not sold on the looks. I'd like to have a 6th gear. I'd like it to be DS ready in the US. Anniversary B&G would be awsome. More oil capacity, or options for a GYTR oil cooler would be great. Make it sprung for the majority of riders, not 16 y/o MX'r types whose waistline has equalled their age yet. And, get rid of the AC/DC stator, and go full DC with an output we all would like.

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  • Orange and Blue Family

Posted December 06, 2011 - 05:36 AM

#31

Not sure if it's Apples to Apples to compare the 2012 WR450 with the 2011 KTM EXC 450. The EXC is a dual sport bike, with mirrors, license plate holder, blinkers, key lock, etc. My understanding is that represents at least 8 or 9 additional pounds. The "Apples" comparison would be with the 2012 KTM XC-W 450 which is dirt only. That should be 8 or 9 pounds lighter than the new Yamaha based on what I'm reading.


The 2012 XC-W got lighter by around 8 lbs, according to Dirt Rider...even though now having fuel injection. KTM did that through completely redesigning the engine, simplifying parts and processes, etc.

My original point was, and is, why didn't Yamaha lighten up the bike this time around? I've been a Yamaha rider for a long time...

  • BajaFool

Posted December 06, 2011 - 05:24 PM

#32

Yamaha Family,
Good thought on which models to compare. One correction however, I compared a 2011 WR450F, and a 2011 450EXC. Using your suggestion, the 2012 WR450F weighs 124 Kg/273.5 Lb and the 2012 450XC-W weighs 116.7 Kg/257.4 Lb. That is a 7.3 Kg/17.1 Lb difference -- noteworthy and commendable by any standard.

  • Krannie McKranface

Posted December 07, 2011 - 07:21 PM

#33

Yamaha Family,
Good thought on which models to compare. One correction however, I compared a 2011 WR450F, and a 2011 450EXC. Using your suggestion, the 2012 WR450F weighs 124 Kg/273.5 Lb and the 2012 450XC-W weighs 116.7 Kg/257.4 Lb. That is a 7.3 Kg/17.1 Lb difference -- noteworthy and commendable by any standard.


Why would you compare a KTM to any other brand?
It's a fragile and costly, and it's high performance with a short life, compared to any year WR. There is no comparison.

If weight is that important, buy the KTM, or an MX bike.

  • cardoc

Posted December 08, 2011 - 04:33 AM

#34

I can't believe you would say that KTMs are fragile. Have you been to an off road race in the last 10 years? How about an extreme enduro? Erzberg? Maybe the ISDE? Enurocross? I have been thrashing KTMs for 15 years and I have never been let down. I have never had a motor or trans problem. The wiring and other plumbing is very simple and sensible. I love my WR but I would rather put bamboo shoots under my finger nails than re jet that thing. My new 500 XC-W with FI is simple, light, hauls ass and feels VERY light. They are all good, it's just a matter of what works for you.

  • martaz

Posted December 08, 2011 - 05:28 AM

#35

Why would you compare a KTM to any other brand?
It's a fragile and costly, and it's high performance with a short life, compared to any year WR. There is no comparison.

If weight is that important, buy the KTM, or an MX bike.


There's no denying the WR is one of the most reiable bikes on the market but to say KTMs are fragile , costly & short life is rubbish..... Maybe because I'm in Europe makes a difference but KTMs are cheaper than any of the top four plus parts are way cheaper. Plus 200 hours from a 2stroke KTM 300 piston is not uncommon !
5 years ago I wouldn't have bought a KTM but they seem to be the bench mark all other brands strive to achieve now.

  • Krannie McKranface

Posted December 08, 2011 - 06:20 AM

#36

There's no denying the WR is one of the most reiable bikes on the market but to say KTMs are fragile , costly & short life is rubbish..... Maybe because I'm in Europe makes a difference but KTMs are cheaper than any of the top four plus parts are way cheaper. Plus 200 hours from a 2stroke KTM 300 piston is not uncommon !
5 years ago I wouldn't have bought a KTM but they seem to be the bench mark all other brands strive to achieve now.


I think that's my point, and I guess you are right, the newer KTM's are no longer (as big of) money pits.
I've seen so many broken frames, seized top and bottom ends, and heimjoints go out in the last 10 years it's alarming. But not in the last 4 years I guess....

  • yz-dwg

Posted December 08, 2011 - 03:39 PM

#37

I am going to hold out for the '13 WR300 two-stroke, -I wish-, why couldnt yama compete in the smoker world with a off road WR?, I'd buy one.

that does it, I'm writing a letter..........

  • Seabass

Posted December 08, 2011 - 06:33 PM

#38

Not sure if it's Apples to Apples to compare the 2012 WR450 with the 2011 KTM EXC 450. The EXC is a dual sport bike, with mirrors, license plate holder, blinkers, key lock, etc. My understanding is that represents at least 8 or 9 additional pounds. The "Apples" comparison would be with the 2012 KTM XC-W 450 which is dirt only. That should be 8 or 9 pounds lighter than the new Yamaha based on what I'm reading.


The 2012 XC-W got lighter by around 8 lbs, according to Dirt Rider...even though now having fuel injection. KTM did that through completely redesigning the engine, simplifying parts and processes, etc.

My original point was, and is, why didn't Yamaha lighten up the bike this time around? I've been a Yamaha rider for a long time...

You could always diet and lose that 8 extra pounds.:lol:

  • brentn

Posted December 08, 2011 - 06:44 PM

#39

All this talk about weight just makes me laugh. Reminds me of all the emphasis on weight put on MTB's in the late 90's early 2000's. I saw friends spend their life savings on the newest, lightest titanium bit to save half a gram. Most of their egos weighed that much, and none of it mattered, because they lacked skill or ability in most areas of riding. Frames and parts broke and corroded. They spent more money on the newest, lightest crap.

If I were to get a '12 WR, by the time I'm done making the usual mods (Bash plate, Radiator guards, hand guards, dry cell battery, exhaust, tires, larger fuel tank, DS lighting kit, etc...) the amount of weight difference is already out the window.

I had a pretty smart guy tell me that if the new part I was buying came in lightweight materials (titamium, etc) or standard material (steel) that if it didn't produce a weight savings by a minimum 5% for the overall bike weight, it wasn't worth the extra cost, and wouldn't change the weight dynamics and kinetics that much.

I'll carry more weight in water, fuel, food and tools in my pack that will also make the difference less and less noticable.

Having good suspension and better ergos will help reduce fatigue. If the EFI will have less potential for flame-outs with large elevation changes, chances of having dead starts on nasty or technical terrain will be less = less fatigue.

I'm not sold on the looks. I'd like to have a 6th gear. I'd like it to be DS ready in the US. Anniversary B&G would be awsome. More oil capacity, or options for a GYTR oil cooler would be great. Make it sprung for the majority of riders, not 16 y/o MX'r types whose waistline has equalled their age yet. And, get rid of the AC/DC stator, and go full DC with an output we all would like.

Very well said :lol::worthy::)

  • stroker

Posted December 09, 2011 - 09:45 AM

#40

FWIW... the last few years around here KTM's 2 strokes have a good reputation except for the lousy e start system and the leaky gas cap thing. No excuse for either really, both of those things have been built reliably for about 100 years now by other manufacturers. Their quality control is very poor (KTMtalk web site is rife with owners that have purchased substandard units).

The 4 strokes have earned a poor reputation around here, lots of failures since they got away from the RFS motors. The new fuel injection models have even more problems. I have 2 good friends with new 2012's that willl not run correctly (sometimes not at all). Been in the shop many times. (a 250 and a 350 sxf). The 250 owner is now trying for a full refund or exchange as his bike has never run correctly and it still has the nibs on the tires, not even a tank of gas through her yet.

Reliability wise, from what I have seen (and I have owned 5 recent KTM's) KTM has a ways to go to catch some of the others in the reliabilty arena. Your experiance may differ.... If I was going on a ride through death valley in July, I would ride a Honda or a Yamaha. Not a KTM.




 
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