No Toil - Extreme Condition Air Filter


7 replies to this topic
  • motorcross242

Posted November 08, 2011 - 03:59 PM

#1

I have not been able to find very much information on No-Toil's extreme condition air filter. I called and spoke with two people at No-Toil and they both said there is no reason to use the extreme condition air filter for casual desert/track riding. They say the extreme condition air filter is for desert racing situations or super silty conditions.

I still don't seem to feel confident in buying their standard (Premium Air Filter). I dont want to buy the wrong filter. Both the standard and the Extreme condition filters cost the same. Wouldn't someone just buy the extreme condition air filters for the added security?
What are the negatives of using the extreme condition for extra protection? Less air = less power?

Are the riding areas like (Hungry Valley, Milestone MX track, Cal City) considered silty or "extreme" conditions? I could consider all of those places dusty - is it enough to be considered "extreme".

Does anyone have any experience using these filters?

  • Krannie McKranface

Posted November 08, 2011 - 04:19 PM

#2

I have not been able to find very much information on No-Toil's extreme condition air filter. I called and spoke with two people at No-Toil and they both said there is no reason to use the extreme condition air filter for casual desert/track riding. They say the extreme condition air filter is for desert racing situations or super silty conditions.

I still don't seem to feel confident in buying their standard (Premium Air Filter). I dont want to buy the wrong filter. Both the standard and the Extreme condition filters cost the same. Wouldn't someone just buy the extreme condition air filters for the added security?
What are the negatives of using the extreme condition for extra protection? Less air = less power?

Are the riding areas like (Hungry Valley, Milestone MX track, Cal City) considered silty or "extreme" conditions? I could consider all of those places dusty - is it enough to be considered "extreme".

Does anyone have any experience using these filters?


I think you are over thinking this.

As they said, there is no reason to use a filter that is designed for full-race in talc-like conditions, for desert race distances.

You will probably never experience that, unless you ride in groups of 15 or more, in silty dirt, for several hours!

Or maybe your trail rides do look like this....



The point is, if you race a 100 mile race in pure dust, you can't change your filter or prevent the filter from eventually passing dirt, which it will, if you ride in fine enough dirt for long enough. So in that case you need better protection.

  • grayracer513

Posted November 08, 2011 - 05:17 PM

#3

IMO, as one who spends most of his time riding in the SoCal desert, there isn't a lot of difference between a 100 desert race and a "casual" fast 70-80 mile ride in the same desert with 9 of your buddies unless they let you lead most of the time, at least as far as the air filter is concerned. The dust in the area could not possibly be any finer nor any more pervasive.

That said, I don't know anything specific about the No-Toil Extreme, but I have no particular faith in either their oil or their filters, based on previous experience.

  • Steel Panther

Posted November 10, 2011 - 12:51 AM

#4

milestone is definitely not an extreme environment, riding in a group in the socal desert can get very dusty though. I use the standard premium filters and have had very good luck with them, just as good as the twin air imo. Just make sure to use rim grease if using the no toil oil as it is not as thick as conventional filter oil.

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  • motorcross242

Posted November 10, 2011 - 10:25 AM

#5

Thanks to Krannie, Grayracer and Steel Panther, I appreciate everyone's help!

Steel Panther - I use the pro-seal from PC racing. No rim grease needed.

After re-reading my original post, I need to clarify a few things.

I do not ride in groups larger than 2-3 people usually. I clean and then re-oil filters the day before I ride. When I ride track I am not in the "pack" of aggressive riders. I usually hang back and get free space between the person in front of me and back. I DO want to reserve the ability to ride in bigger groups should the opportunity arise.

My main point in this post and not just following what Grayracer says is convenience. My local oil collection center only collects oil. No-toil seems like convenience, then protection.

Grayracer - I read a lot of no-toil threads that you do not trust their products based on your experience. Their classic formula (red bottle) has never changed, so asking you to try it again would be pointless. But almost all the No-toil bashing threads seems to come from either: not applying thoroughly, not allowing the product to "tack-up" prior to install, not using rim grease, having leaks elsewhere in the intake, using the air filter after it has dried or oil migration. Of course I trust all your opinions, but the subject seems incomplete. I've read hundreds of reputable users being completely content with the no toil products. There will not be any hard data on its efficiency at stopping dirt getting into the engine, just opinions.

Edited by motorcross242, November 14, 2011 - 10:06 AM.


  • grayracer513

Posted November 10, 2011 - 10:50 AM

#6

My beef with No-Toil is on two fronts.

The first and least important is that I frankly don't find it any more convenient or less problematic or time consuming to clean the filters using No-Toil with soap and water than by using Maxima FFT and shop solvent or mineral spirits. (Please don't even mention the washing machine...NOT an option) I have four filters and a dedicated plastic bucket with a lid that I keep a couple gallons of MS in. When I have three dirty ones, I clean them, wring them, and hang them up to dry, in about half the time it takes to clean with No-Toil, using the same solvent for about 3-4 months or more. I can see this being a problem if you can't find someone to take the solvent, but if you mix it with the used oil, most places won't know the difference, and it won't affect the recycling process in a significant way.

The second and most important complaint I have is that No-Toil doesn't stay tacky over time like FFT does. I can oil 3 filters at once, hang them out for a day to drain the excess and allow the thinners to evaporate out of the oil, and then bag them up for future use. I can also install a filter two weeks before an event and know that the FFT will still be tenaciously tacky come race day. In the event that something comes up and I don't ride, I leave the filter in place with complete confidence that it will work fine the next time out without freshening it up. No-Toil, on the other hand tends to "dry" or loose its tack within a very few days time, and doesn't allow me to do any of that. Also, with FFT, neither rim grease nor goodies like the Pro Seal are needed. Just oiling the flange of the filter is more than enough.

In fairness, I should say that I've heard NT has revised their oil (although you say no), and I haven't tried it for about 3 years, but I have no reason to want to, either. My stuff works and works well in an environment that leaves people digging dirt clods out of their noses for days afterward, and no dust in the air boot.

  • motorcross242

Posted November 10, 2011 - 01:41 PM

#7

Thank you for your opinion. I spoke with the lady from NT and was sure the formula hasnt changed. I have read that it has changed. So whatever.

Grayracer - thanks for taking your time to reply. I know my answer from all this.

Edited by motorcross242, November 15, 2011 - 11:43 AM.


  • Steel Panther

Posted November 11, 2011 - 11:12 AM

#8

I don't know if the red oil changed, but they did come out with no toil evolution, which is green. Ive never tried it tho, mainly because my local shop doesn't have it. And everythng gray said was right on, I oil my filters the day before a ride with no toil, after a week or so they dry out. Now I have rode with one that was oiled for several weeks and it was dried out, but still nothing got by I contribute that to milestones large dirt particles, but I would never go to ocotillo on an old filter





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